Hello!

I am trying to decide which Ravenea species to grow in my Pyrgos garden and would like your help! I especially like Ravenea krockiana,Ravenea lakatra,Ravenea sp. ''Anjuan'',Ravenea glauca and pretty much any Ravenea species that looks like R. sp. ''Anjuan'' but is massive in leaf size. What i want from a Ravenea is of course to like its leaf shape and arrangement as in the species i mentioned above but also to be of big/massive leaf size and a fast grower that can rival Ravenea rivularis in speed of growth or at least not be too far behind as i want it as a canopy palm. Its has be able to withstand -2C to -3C without damage and survive -4C without any risk of trunk damage.

Does any of the species i mentioned fit the above criteria? Is there any other Ravenea species that fits my criteria maybe?

From my research online,Ravenea krockiana seems to be the closest match to my criteria,combining the characteristics i am looking for but i dont know how fast growing it is,how much trunk it puts on annually and how cold hardy it is.

Any help would be appreciated very much!!!

Thank you very much in advance!!!

Here are my thoughts as I grow all the above

- Krociana is slow and I doubt it takes -4C

- Lakatra is even slower and requires shade when young. Doubt it handles -4C

- sp. Anjuan is pretty quick but it is not "massive".

- Glauca is most likely your best bet however it is not "massive" either.

- another option is Sambiranensis.

What ever Ravenea you can obtain Kostas , get them inground and do your own trial and error, "None" will be any where near the speed of rivularis, but thats not bad news because after years now our Krokiana has "Massive" upright fronds and not far off trunking...Being at the level of the start of Massive fronds is better than looking at a trunk...Our Krokiana pic is on...."PALMPEDIA' Pete

Kostas, I agree with Len and Pedro.

Get your plants in the ground, as soon as you can.

Tillering ("heel-forming") types are a lot slower than non-tillering types, like R. rivularis.

Not to be off topic, but is Krociana the same as sp. "giant" now?

Not to be off topic, but is Krociana the same as sp. "giant" now?

Brett, heres some pics from old threads that the Boss Bo posted of Krokiana and sp giant, pics of the trunk and fronds show obvious differences.... also a shot of some large wild rivularis..

Krokiana

Krokiana trunk

sp Giant trunk

sp Giant

Rivularis

They didnt come out , will try in this order. 1st is Rivularis , then 2 x giant, then 2 x Krokiana

Thank you very much for your replies and pictures!

From your replies,R. rivularis fits my criteria best of all but i cant say i like it too much. For the looks,Ravenea krockiana is the best to my eyes! How many years does this species take to start trunking and how fast is it afterwards? Also,how cold hardy is it?

I agree that palms with massive leafs look awesome at the stage they have them upright with the leaflets drooping nicely but i was hoping to use them as canopy palms as i really need canopy,fast! Maybe i will use Roystonea elata for canopy and plant a couple nice Ravenea krociana in other spots if they can take -2C undamaged and can survive -3,6C with just leaf damage. The -3.6C only happens once in 20 years and like all the low temperatures in Pyrgos,its very brief,with temperature gradually dipping during the night from loss of warmth,somewhat like the Florida cold spells,reaching the lowest point just before sunrise and then everything warms up to 5-10C fast!

I am afraid that no Ravenea is as quick as you want in our climates (differences between coastal Attica and Pyrgos are not in this matter enormous). You'd better use for the described purpose a Roystonea. It can grow really very fast if it survives in winter...

I am trying rivularis, but it's not so cold. And so far it's FAST growing.

But I guess also not so hot during summer like here in southeastern med Europe!

On the name question, I asked John Dransfield about sp. "giant" vs. krociana at a meeting, i. e., were they the same? He said no, the only thing they had in common was that they were both BIG. He also said that a name for sp. "giant" shouldn't be too far off in the future. Following is a picture of my largest sp. "giant", w/5-gal bucket for scale.

Let's see if I can get that right side up.

Thank you very much for your replies!

Konstantinos,

How fast do your Ravenea rivularis grows? How much trunk per year? Do you have a photo of it? Most R. rivularis i see in photos have a very untidy/tangled looking crown while a few are indeed beautiful with a lush canopy.

How fast are your Roystonea?

Thats great to hear Rafael,i wish you the best of success with R. rivularis! How much trunk per year does it put on or i not trunking,how much bigger is it after a year?

Thanks for the name clarification Mike and of course the photo!

At what temperature does Ravenea rivularis damage and at what does it die? What about Ravenea krociana's cold hardiness? I read palmbob's comment on Dave's Garden that says he hasnt been able to grow this one successfully in 9b,which isnt very encouraging. What do you think and what has been your experience with this species and cold weather? What would be a good alternative with the same look(huge leafs,drooping leaflets)in the Ravenea genus that would be cold hardy enough to be a sure grow with a very rare and very brief -4C?

Thank you very much in advance!

Kostas Im growing ravenea rivularis in north coastal spain... Its already trunking and grows at least 5-6 new leaves per year. Last year we had -2C (although my termometer registered -0,5C)... If you can grow archontophoenix you can grow ravenea rivularis definitively...

Edited December 13, 201213 yr by Halekuma

Thank you very much for your replies!

Konstantinos,

How fast do your Ravenea rivularis grows? How much trunk per year? Do you have a photo of it? Most R. rivularis i see in photos have a very untidy/tangled looking crown while a few are indeed beautiful with a lush canopy.

How fast are your Roystonea?

Thats great to hear Rafael,i wish you the best of success with R. rivularis! How much trunk per year does it put on or i not trunking,how much bigger is it after a year?

Thanks for the name clarification Mike and of course the photo!

At what temperature does Ravenea rivularis damage and at what does it die?

It is hardy enough for your place! Mine has survived the 2004 and 2008 havoc! It does not like much the very high summer temp (say above 33 C and scorching sun). Very demanding (if you want to have a nice looking specimen) with respect to soil and water (acidic ph and not hard water if you use water soluble fertilizer). Another glauca near to the rivularis (at the exactly same place as the present one) died in the freeze of 2004 but it was not adequately established (only one year in the ground). Rivularis is cold hardier but glauca is cool hardier. I am not able to talk about yearround rate of trunk growth, because, as Ihave pointed out, it is slow in my place. In fact it does not grow at all during July and August.

Thank you very much for your replies!

Konstantinos,

How fast do your Ravenea rivularis grows? How much trunk per year? Do you have a photo of it? Most R. rivularis i see in photos have a very untidy/tangled looking crown while a few are indeed beautiful with a lush canopy.

How fast are your Roystonea?

Thats great to hear Rafael,i wish you the best of success with R. rivularis! How much trunk per year does it put on or i not trunking,how much bigger is it after a year?

Thanks for the name clarification Mike and of course the photo!

At what temperature does Ravenea rivularis damage and at what does it die? What about Ravenea krociana's cold hardiness? I read palmbob's comment on Dave's Garden that says he hasnt been able to grow this one successfully in 9b,which isnt very encouraging. What do you think and what has been your experience with this species and cold weather? What would be a good alternative with the same look(huge leafs,drooping leaflets)in the Ravenea genus that would be cold hardy enough to be a sure grow with a very rare and very brief -4C?

Thank you very much in advance!

I don't have a Roystonea any more. Last died in 2004 together with many other palms among them Livistona rigida and Copernicia alba (to get an idea). I have managed to grow this Roystonea regia in my cold frame to a decent outplantable (for my resources of course, but it had not formed yet a trunk) size and noted that it was as fast as a Queenpalm, if you understand what I mean...

It's this beautiful palm tree..

Thank you very much for your replies!

Konstantinos,

How fast do your Ravenea rivularis grows? How much trunk per year? Do you have a photo of it? Most R. rivularis i see in photos have a very untidy/tangled looking crown while a few are indeed beautiful with a lush canopy.

How fast are your Roystonea?

Thats great to hear Rafael,i wish you the best of success with R. rivularis! How much trunk per year does it put on or i not trunking,how much bigger is it after a year?

Thanks for the name clarification Mike and of course the photo!

At what temperature does Ravenea rivularis damage and at what does it die? What about Ravenea krociana's cold hardiness? I read palmbob's comment on Dave's Garden that says he hasnt been able to grow this one successfully in 9b,which isnt very encouraging. What do you think and what has been your experience with this species and cold weather? What would be a good alternative with the same look(huge leafs,drooping leaflets)in the Ravenea genus that would be cold hardy enough to be a sure grow with a very rare and very brief -4C?

Thank you very much in advance!

Kostas, mine is beggining to have a trunk. I have transplanted it from my other garden (colder and with frost). It grows maybe 7 leaves/year. You can check its size in this thread: http://www.palmtalk....showtopic=31527

Rivularis is cold hardier but glauca is cool hardier. I am not able to talk about yearround rate of trunk growth, because, as Ihave pointed out, it is slow in my place. In fact it does not grow at all during July and August.

I would say Glauca is cold hardier and rivularis is both (being rivularis a little more sensitive)... I say this from a perspective of someone living in a very humid, cool and rainy area in winter. For me rivularis is a better option but I think for someone living in Greece Glauca would be more suitable, same for other mediterranean areas in europe.... Looks like glauca dont like our high rainfall either...

Edited December 13, 201213 yr by Halekuma

Bump!

So, Kostas, what have you decided?

Hi Rafael!

I have ditched the idea of using Ravenea for canopy and decided to go with R. krociana in spots that will eventually have tall canopy above them and see how it does... I think that searching around I found evidence suggesting survival to my minimums with defoliation probable but nothing hard set as very few are growing it unfortunately. R. lakatra seems to definitely be able to take my record cold and If it doesn't work out with krociana(which I hope it will work out,best looking Ravenea species there is in my opinion)I will go with R. lakatra.

One other that has been available on & off is sp. "new". I'm not sure if anyone has come up with a better name yet. But it appears to be every bit as fast as rivularis. It also does just fine in full coastal sun from a young age. Maybe someone here can update their experiences with it as well.

have my doubts. R. rivularis or what?:

R. rivularis

may be R. rivularis? tengo mis dudas

Edited October 12, 201312 yr by Mantis sp.

R. rivularis

.

I have a rivularis that is like an overgrown 5gal but in a 15g bucket and it has seen full sun since I've had it, I consider full sun to be 100% sun from sun up to sun down. It has seen near 100 degree weather and never burns. It has grown tremendously since the begining of the year, very noticable in height and girth

Hi Rafael!

I have ditched the idea of using Ravenea for canopy and decided to go with R. krociana in spots that will eventually have tall canopy above them and see how it does... I think that searching around I found evidence suggesting survival to my minimums with defoliation probable but nothing hard set as very few are growing it unfortunately. R. lakatra seems to definitely be able to take my record cold and If it doesn't work out with krociana(which I hope it will work out,best looking Ravenea species there is in my opinion)I will go with R. lakatra.

Good to know Kostas!

I am growing krociana and lakatra in pots and these are fine with our cold frames and average minimum.

The rivularis i am showing is in a sheltered place and is perfect. Growing like a weed.

Very nice Rafael! Great to hear your R. krociana and lakatra do fine with your average minimums! Sounds promising for sure! A few days ago i ordered 6 R. krociana seedlings(have been unable to find bigger plants of this species 1,5 years now that i have been searching) and look forward to seeing how they do. It will be a looong wait to see something though i guess...

R. rivularis is a real beauty of a palm, but is especially demanding. I probably wouldn't grow it again in a dry climate such as mine. If you get good rainfall go for it.

Even in san diego they are extremely fast.

I do get a good amount of rainfall and have shallow ground water level which i am sure R. rivularis would love,but my favorite of the Ravenea by far really is R. krociana. Cant beat those huge leafs with hanging,droopy leaflets and awesome trunk! :drool:So, if i can grow it, i want to grow this one!

Got myself 6 small R. krociana! What kind of light conditions can they tolerate and what would they prefer as small palms? Any special problems you have found this species or anything special treatment regarding soil or watering they may need? This is my first and only Ravenea species.

Rafael,how low temperatures have yours seen? Do they need canopy not to burn from frost or are they frost hardy enough like Dypsis lastelliana for example?

Thank you very much in advance!

Got myself 6 small R. krociana! What kind of light conditions can they tolerate and what would they prefer as small palms? Any special problems you have found this species or anything special treatment regarding soil or watering they may need? This is my first and only Ravenea species.

Rafael,how low temperatures have yours seen? Do they need canopy not to burn from frost or are they frost hardy enough like Dypsis lastelliana for example?

Thank you very much in advance!

I am growing a krociana for the last 3 years, got it from the canaly islands. I water it regularly and it takes partial non-filtered sunlight (from 9am to 13 am). As it is completely acclimatized i am about to plant it. In my newest garden i get no frost, so i cant answer your question, but i think it is at least as hardy as rivularis. hope this helps a little.

That helps big time Rafael,thank you very very much!!! As hardy as rivularis? Wow,is that good news! That's awesome! I will ground plant them as soon as I find the spots for them and hope they grow well and problem free! They have already started dividing their leafs!

I thought, Rafael just said, 'he thinks' (not tested), that it is cold hardy equally to rivularis. To draw final conclusions from comparison of cool-hardiness about the comparative cold hardiness of one sp is not safe, but at least it is encouraging...

Edited April 15, 201412 yr by Phoenikakias

They are gonna be tried anyway,so the fact Rafael thinks krociana is at least as cold hardy as rivularis, is more than encouraging! Even if krociana is half as cold hardy as R. rivularis, it's gonna be fine in Pyrgos

I thought, Rafael just said, 'he thinks' (not tested), that it is cold hardy equally to rivularis. To draw final conclusions from comparison of cool-hardiness about the comparative cold hardiness of one sp is not safe, but at least it is encouraging...

They are gonna be tried anyway,so the fact Rafael thinks krociana is at least as cold hardy as rivularis, is more than encouraging! Even if krociana is half as cold hardy as R. rivularis, it's gonna be fine in Pyrgos

Yes, thats not a 100% safe statement, as i am confined at my quite sheltered yard and specific and frostless microclimate.

Nevertheless, it's factual, krociana (without canopy and in partial non filtered sunlight spot) supported as well as rivularis two consecutive cool winters (0C as minimum), so thats really encouraging

That's encouraging indeed! Got 6 to try out and next winter we should know some more on its cold and frost hardiness! If my seedlings do well in a typical winter,they should have no problem handling my record cold winters every 20years!

Here are 5 of my Ravenea krociana! All the left row and the bottom most two,are R. krociana

Does the upper one and the two lowermost ones with the divided leafs with relatively narrow leaflets compared to the others with quite wide,mostly undivided leafs,look like a real krociana and the same with the others or something else? The leaflet width seems quite noticeable to me. Is it cultural?

Please let me know what you think on their ID.

Thank you very much in advance!