palmspotting in Athens

[greekpalm]

i was wondering around in Athens and i found this. I've also heard that a mature Roystonea Regia was growing 2Km from there

this is a foxy lady right ? it seems like no one was taking care of it.... its on leoforos vari- koropiou, 300m before kalimnou. archontophoenix are popping up everywhere, so are queens. A member here has also a nice bismarckia i've heard. Have you seen any mature rare palms in athens or greece ? let us know

[Eric in Orlando]

That is a Fishtail, maybe Caryota urens.

[greekpalm]

yup you're right. my bad :-)

[Phoenikakias]

Yes, it is true. There is a trunking Roystonea in Voula at the first parallel street above Poseidonos av. near Pigadakia.

[Janni]

Have a look at my trip-reports. I've seen a lot of different palms in greece, already

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=30422&hl=

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=30443&hl=

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17288&hl=greece

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17267&hl=greece

[Phoenikakias]

I know with details all the history of those palms in Nauplion, who bought and planted them, when, source of acquiring, and how many other palms have been cut to the ground by other municipal authorities, just to explain the buying of new plants... . BTW since you are looking for not common plants in Attica, just for the records there were two large and fruiting Archotophoenix clumps in Amfitheas and a trunking Ravenea rivularis in Ano Voula, and two large Caryota urens in Kifissias av. in front of the Glaxco building, but all of them perished during winter 2004 and 2008.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Phoenikakias

[mlovecan]

  On 8/10/2012 at 12:34 PM, Phoenikakias said:

I know with details all the history of those palms in Nauplion, who bought and planted them, when, source of acquiring, and how many other palms have been cut to the ground by other municipal authorities, just to explain the buying of new plants... . BTW since you are looking for not common plants in Attica, just for the records there were two large and fruiting Archotophoenix clumps in Amfitheas and a trunking Ravenea rivularis in Ano Voula, and two large Caryota urens in Kifissias av. in front of the Glaxco building, but all of them perished during winter 2004 and 2008.

That's a shame Kosta! Curious about the trunking Roystonea you described. Mine is just recovering now after the cold week we had in February - actually the coldest week in memory on Rhodes. It was quite a bit colder up where you guys are!

Cheers

Maurice

[Phoenikakias]

Maurice, the situation of the royal palm in Voula is far beyond expectation good! Of course one can observe tiny cold spots (and not wide necrotic areas) on older leaves, but its growth rate has not at all slowed down and in June it had already pushed two new spotfree leaves. On the other hand last winter was not disastrously cold apart from the long time the cold lasted. If I remeber correctly Meg (palmatier) insists, that royal palms after the trunking are more cold hardy than king palms. I don't know exactly your location in the island, but I remember quite well that some Dypsis decaryi specimens from a nursery in Rhodos have been badly frost-burned a decade ago (before the outbrake of the weather instability since 2004 that is), whereby other palms of the same kind in Athens remained unharmed. So there must be some cold pockets in the island

[dimitris]

  On 8/12/2012 at 4:48 PM, Phoenikakias said:

Maurice, the situation of the royal palm in Voula is far beyond expectation good! Of course one can observe tiny cold spots (and not wide necrotic areas) on older leaves, but its growth rate has not at all slowed down and in June it had already pushed two new spotfree leaves. On the other hand last winter was not disastrously cold apart from the long time the cold lasted. If I remeber correctly Meg (palmatier) insists, that royal palms after the trunking are more cold hardy than king palms. I don't know exactly your location in the island, but I remember quite well that some Dypsis decaryi specimens from a nursery in Rhodos have been badly frost-burned a decade ago (before the outbrake of the weather instability since 2004 that is), whereby other palms of the same kind in Athens remained unharmed. So there must be some cold pockets in the island

It could be nice if you could take a photo of that royal the next time you ' ll be in there !

[mlovecan]

  On 8/12/2012 at 4:48 PM, Phoenikakias said:

Maurice, the situation of the royal palm in Voula is far beyond expectation good! Of course one can observe tiny cold spots (and not wide necrotic areas) on older leaves, but its growth rate has not at all slowed down and in June it had already pushed two new spotfree leaves. On the other hand last winter was not disastrously cold apart from the long time the cold lasted. If I remeber correctly Meg (palmatier) insists, that royal palms after the trunking are more cold hardy than king palms. I don't know exactly your location in the island, but I remember quite well that some Dypsis decaryi specimens from a nursery in Rhodos have been badly frost-burned a decade ago (before the outbrake of the weather instability since 2004 that is), whereby other palms of the same kind in Athens remained unharmed. So there must be some cold pockets in the island

Nice to gear the Royal made it fine

Interesting about the suggestion a trunking Royal being more cold hardy than Kings - if that's the case, soon should be no issue as mine is starting to trunk and my kings never even spot - even this year.

There are a lot of micro-climates on the island. So certainly the odd area where frost comes rolling down the hills. I believe the first nursery that had triangles is near Fanes - not so sure how cold that gets. There is one nursery that can get fairly cold ( in Koskinou ) likes to try new stuff ( they brought some large bottles from China a couple years back ) may have had some triangles and be the on you refer to - don't know.

Cheers

Maurice

[Janni]

Well then... has anyone got any pictures??

[mlovecan]

Hi Janni,

I've got these ones...third one is my recovering Roystonea regia ( bad shot taken last month ), Last shot is an unaffected Roystonea princeps - not affected by the cold ( only the usual heat like right now ). The R. regia shot is not great - it has also grown two new leaves in the last month.

Regards

Maurice

Edited August 15, 2012 by mlovecan

[Janni]

Hi Maurice,

thanks for sharing your pictures! I liked your garden from the outside and i like it even more from the inside?

Is that a hyophorbe verschaffeltii next to the royal? btw, I know of a few Royal palms in a hotel garden in crete. I saw a few pictures of them by coincidence on the internet. then I compared the pictures of some years ago with the newest pictures. they seem to feel good there and are growing happily next to a pond.

So how about other pictures of rare palms in greece?

what do you think is the border for growing tropical palms in greece? I think nearly every part of greece (exept of the mountains) south of athens has a great climatical potential for growing palms like Archontos, Royals, Foxtails etc. Beside of that, the whole west-coast area up to Kerkyra has also mild winters. but how far can those species be grown inland (distance from the coast in km)? Has anyone an idea about that?

greetings

[mlovecan]

No Janni,

The palm next to my Royal is a Hurricane. I just pulled the spear from my last rotting Spindle I will every try to grow on Saturday. They just don't seem to take the combination of our extreme heat in summer and extreme rain in winter.

As for limit for "tropicals", I guess that depends on where you draw the line on your definition.

The highest inhabited mountain range on our island has many km's of CIDP planted along one road and they fare just fine - even last winter.

We are about a USDA zone 10b - they must be about 9a up there on the hill. I imagine many inland parts of Greece are 9a also, and zone 10 palms would not survive.

Regards

Maurice

Edited August 17, 2012 by mlovecan

[Phoenikakias]

Maurice, were I you, I would give Hyophorbe verschaffelti another chance, but this time using as substrate strictly only pumice! I have one in pot having experienced some times frost in my coldframe and it has survived thought it gets irrigated overhead even during winter once a week. Today I have spotted one Cycas circinalis growing in a garden in Voula! A woman in Samos is said to propagate outdoors Jubaeopsis caffra. The east coast of Peloponnes from Astros southwards is safe for 10 a and b palms. I have seen a tall Dypsis in Elaia of Lakonia, and some places in the argolian bay are almost subtropical like Tolo, Karathona (where tomatos used to have been grown outdoors during winter), Porto Heli (where it is said that in the garden of Minos Kyriakou grows a Coconut-Cocos nucifera- latter information was given by the very same man, who takes care of this garden).

Edited August 17, 2012 by Phoenikakias

[mlovecan]

Hi Kosta,

Actually, I had considered giving Spindles one more chance - however, this time not in such a sunny location. I think the effort the recently-deceased Spindle have required to survive the intense summer ( it did last for 5 years - although declining for the last 2 ) have put it in a poor position to make it through the winters. When you say "strictly pumice" are you suggesting planting in a pot or creating a large hole in the ground and filling with pumice.

Now, regarding the Cocos Nucifera in Porto Heli, I would really like to hear more about the man's efforts! I think Bubba on this website would be very keen to hear about this also.

Regards

Maurice

edited to add: Jubaeopsis caffra is quite an easy grow, very heat and water-tolerant - even at a very young age. I think everyone in Greece should grow some of these - four of my pictures above show mine that is almost two meters now.

Edited August 17, 2012 by mlovecan

[Phoenikakias]

Maurice, I am suggesting that you dig a hole in the ground and fill in with pumice. Nothing more or less than the classic method of planting a palm in heavy clay soil. Only the medium changes. For more details, unless you read my posts in EPS contact me through pm. I have lost a few Jubaeopsis in the past, it is not water tolerant at all during winter and certainly dislikes lethally black pots in full sun!

Edited August 18, 2012 by Phoenikakias

[Phoenikakias]

This the Roystonea regia in Voula. Pics have been taken last year, and by the first opportunity I will take and post new ones.

[mlovecan]

Very nice! Big surprise at how healthy it looks!!

Edited August 28, 2012 by mlovecan

[DoomsDave]

That greek royal is nice!

Just like mine, here in the frozen tundra of La Habra, California . . . .

[Phoenikakias]

An update of Roystonea is available. Unfortunately pics have been shot in total darkness with a cell-phone and resolution is low.

[Janni]

It still looks helathy!

Growth rate is approx. 30cm for the last year - is that right? I count two more rings on the stem. Although I don't know if that is a normal or slow growth rate for a roystonea, as there are so few here around... in Germany...

[luifong]

Great

[Phoenikakias]

  On 9/14/2012 at 9:54 AM, Janni said:

It still looks helathy!

Growth rate is approx. 30cm for the last year - is that right? I count two more rings on the stem. Although I don't know if that is a normal or slow growth rate for a roystonea, as there are so few here around... in Germany...

GRUDs are less than in anyone tropical or subtropical place and also less than in SoCa, so less annual growth makes sense. What worries me mostly is that ithere is very little uncovered earth and too much concrete around the plant. Roystonea is a gross feader and as this particular plant will gain in size also its need for water and nutrients will increase. I doubt whether future needs can be covered with so sparse free place around it.

[Janni]

  On 9/14/2012 at 6:02 PM, Phoenikakias said:

  On 9/14/2012 at 9:54 AM, Janni said:

It still looks helathy!

Growth rate is approx. 30cm for the last year - is that right? I count two more rings on the stem. Although I don't know if that is a normal or slow growth rate for a roystonea, as there are so few here around... in Germany...

GRUDs are less than in anyone tropical or subtropical place and also less than in SoCa, so less annual growth makes sense. What worries me mostly is that ithere is very little uncovered earth and too much concrete around the plant. Roystonea is a gross feader and as this particular plant will gain in size also its need for water and nutrients will increase. I doubt whether future needs can be covered with so sparse free place around it.

Have a look on these Roystoneas at the Cairo Intl. Airport.

ok -the quality of that picture is very bad but I couldn't find any better. I've seen those roystoneas at the airport in a travel-magazine. the quality of the picture was better (of course) and it was very clearly visible, that those palms have almost no uncovered soil surrounding them. I really asked myself how they can survive. I think that there is an underground watering system. but how about the nutrients?

https://maps.google....oid=po-41434329

I hope that link works... they don't have the "street view" available there.

[Phoenikakias]

I have already seen the Cairo Roystoneas in 2005 and other in Sharm el Sheikh as well. They all looked like suffering from undernutrition or underwatering then. I think it has to do with the soil consistency in Egypt. Also the vegetables are much smaller than the greek ones and also tasteless.