Suggestions for palms that will grow in Zone 9B

[ruskinPalms]

Hi all!
It's been awhile since I've posted here. I just bought some land in Parrish FL that I plan to build a house on. It think it is a zone 9B for all intents and purposes. The lot is completely cleared, no other trees, no canopy so its going to see some frost almost every year but it may not get much below 28 to 29F most years. Any suggestions of palms that I could realistically obtain would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[palman]

Copernicia are great for that climate. Also, sabal domengensis, sabal causiarium, & sabal maritamae.

[Zeeth]

Where in Parrish? Parrish is a big place where coconuts can grow to maturity (but die in winters like january/december 2010) on one edge, but pygmy dates wont on the other edge

[ruskinPalms]

I'm thinking the pigmy date side sadly. The community is called Foxbrook. Folks there have royals and foxtails planted but I'm thinking they were planted with several feet of trunk. I'm looking for some novel ideas (but not so novel that I have to travel to Madagascar to obtain them). Any suggestions of some good local nurserys would be cool too. Thanks!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Quite a few Livistonas: chinensis, saribus, decora, nitida, australis, and mariae for example would probably work very well. I've found the foliage on L. drudei to be about as hardy as Coconut, but it recovers from low 20's very quickly in spring.

Certainly Mule Palms would be fine and they grow fast to create a lower frost environment beneath.

Bismarkia should be OK, along with Copnernicia alba.

Here in JAX, I've managed to keep Arcontophoenix for a few seasons though they eventually succumbed to temps in the very low 20's and I don't have any right now.

Certainly most Sabal species would work (exceptions would be mauritiformis and yapa which seem super frost sensitive).

I would try Leucothrinax morrisii, and Allagoptera arneria since both do OK here (with just a little help in the real cold weather...though none was required this year!).

Arenga engleri is a beautiful screen plant and it grows fast once established. It doesn't seem to mind temps into the low-mid 20's as long as frost doesn't form on the foliage. When that happens, it scorches but recovers quickly in spring.

I have a Cocothrinax crinata hanging on but I believe its permanently stunted by the freezes. I woulldn't count on it.

Cocothrinax argentata is worth a try as my potted specimen has been exposed to temps in the 20's on a number of occasions without too much trouble. I do take it inside, assuming I'm here, when forecast lows are below 27-28f.

Our native Everglades palms should rock in your neighborhood. We have very large specimens here.

Rhapis excelsa has proven nearly bombproof here. I don't even bring the pots inside any more. They are easily good to 20.

For comparison purposes, In my neighborhood, P. roebellenii are often defoliated in winter except under canopy. This year was a crap shoot because mine does't have much damage, but plenty of them here lost all or a significant portion of their foliage. Its all about siting.

Thats my $0.02 for now.

[redant]

Beccariophoenix alfredii would be worth a try as well as the other varieties.

[Walt]

If you care for the Caryota genus, one species I would highly recommend (due to cold tolerance) is Caryota urens.

In December of 2010 I had my all-time low (20.6 degrees in the open at 3 feet above ground. Archbold Biological Station 8 miles south of me recorded 15 degrees) during a severe radiational freeze (95% of my coldest weather is from radiational cooling events).

My C. urens only had some slight leaf damage on the two lowest fronds. However, it is planted in a more protected area and as such, probably saw low temperatures several degrees higher. Still, C. urens is far more cold hardy than C. mitis and C. maxima and C. elvis et al. Further, this species is a relatively fast grower.

Above: Caryota urens in center

Above: Caryota urens crown

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Walt, how does it tolerate frost? I'm trying to buy a short sale in Polk County and it's pretty exposed. There are frost sensitive species nearby, but this place is utterly treeless. I think it's an old citrus grove so it's going to be a real frost pocket until I grow some canopy.

[redant]

Walt, how does it tolerate frost? I'm trying to buy a short sale in Polk County and it's pretty exposed. There are frost sensitive species nearby, but this place is utterly treeless. I think it's an old citrus grove so it's going to be a real frost pocket until I grow some canopy.

My camp in in polk county and boy does it get cold there. Outright killed even silver date palms I planted there, it's colder there then Orlando by far.

[Walt]

Walt, how does it tolerate frost? I'm trying to buy a short sale in Polk County and it's pretty exposed. There are frost sensitive species nearby, but this place is utterly treeless. I think it's an old citrus grove so it's going to be a real frost pocket until I grow some canopy.

Keith: I really can't say how my C. urens handles frost as I've never seen frost on it. But the bottom of the fronds are about 20 feet above the ground, so it would be hard to see frost.

The north side of my property backs to state preserve land, and it's like an ice box on the preserve. As such, the north side of my property is the coldest. I have hugh P. selloums planted along part of my north property line and they were totally defoliated this past winter and most previous winters. But P. selloums on the south side of my property weren't damaged, as they are surrounded by canopy.

I have a thermal couple and also pocket digital thermometer that registers in tenths of a degree F. I walk my property on cold radiational cooling nights to find the warmest areas. Hands down the south half of my property is the warmest, up to five degrees warmer. I only plant tender stuff on the south side now. I also have four hi-lo mercury thermometers that I place in different spots to record ultimate lows. All the warmest areas are in canopied areas.

But back to the C. urens, I think it's been in the ground now for at least six or seven years. Again, it was only slightly hurt (bottomost fronds) when I had my all-time low in December of 2010. I plan on getting more of this species when I find them.

As far as your short sale property goes with respect to it being a possible frost pocket, it will depend if it's on high or low ground. Here in Highlands County, high ground citrus groves (all other things being equal) run warmer than low ground, probably by at least five degrees, maybe even 10 degrees due to air inversion and stratification. Still, a canopied high ground area is going to see less frost than a bare high ground area.

[Eric in Orlando]

Caryota ochlandra also is vvvveerrry cold tolerant. We have one planted back in 1997 that is about 50ft tall and flowering. The frost and winters of 2009-10 and 2010-11 did not damage any foliage on it. It is hardier than C. gigas, C. obtusa and Caryota "Himalayan".

[Eric in Orlando]

Should also try;

Acrocomia aculeata

Acrocomia totai

Allagoptera arenaria

Allagoptera campestris

Allagoptera leucocalyx

Arenga engleri

Arenga ryukyuensis

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Borassus aethiopum

Borassus flbellifer

Brahea brandegeei

Brahea clara

Brahea elegans

Butia yatay

Copernicia baileyana

Copernica fallaensis

Copernicia hospita

Copernicia prunifera

Hyphaene coriacea

Hyphaene thebaica

Phoenix loureiroi

Phoenix rupicola

Syagrus coronata

Trithrinax acanthacoma

Trithrinax campestris

[redbeard917]

One possibility is to plant a live oak or other canopy tree since it seems you have enough space for one, or even a small grove. In 10 years it won't be huge but it will be big enough to keep the frost off understory palms. Others have posted many great palm species ideas, but I will add three that have done well for me in north Florida. Chamaedorea microspadix looks great with no canopy except the shade from the north side of my house, and Serenoa repens, I picked the bluest one at the nursery. Needle palms are underrated as well in my opinion and I've grown one in full sun.

[ruskinPalms]

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Alicehunter2000]

Finding some ideas here and wanting to bump thread so as not to lose it.