What kind of lethal yellowing might this be?

[mcwolf]

If there is any help than it can only come from this forum.

I'm sure there are enough guys who have seen this kind of yellowing on this popular palm before.

The two Phoenix were transplanted about 7 years ago and grew quite nicely since then. The left one seems still to be fine but the right one looses more and more leaves especially on the lawn facing side. Opposite of it (fence side) the leaves stay for much longer green.

Do you know what it is and most of all is there anything I can do to stop it?

Thanks for your help!

Wolfie

[virtualpalm]

One of the characteristic symptoms of Fusarium wilt (which is fatal) is the leaflets dying along one side of a leaf. You should get the tissue tested, and if it is Fusarium you should remove the palm as soon as possible, dig out a huge hole, dispose of the soil, and treat well with a heavy duty fungicide like ZeroTol.

Jody

[LJG]

No need to send in tissue - that’s Fusarium Wilt. I would also say the one the left doesn't have a very good chance due to its proximity. Fusarium is spread through the air and ground, and that CIDP is too close to the infected one. The spores will live for a very long time in the soil so when the healthy plant's roots grow into the infected area, it will get it. CIPDs roots branch when they spread. When they spilt they open themselves up to the Fusarium attack.

Also ZeroTol will not cure or prevent the spread. ZeroTol is used mainly on Fusarium roseum and Fusarium tricinctum from what I read. Not "Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. Canariensis" which is a species specific killer - that has no cure.

One thing you can start now as the tree has a chance to live since it is still early is to dose heavily with Phosphates. While anecdotal, I can tell you I have personally witnessed numerous trees manage to live with Fusarium when given high doses of Phosphates every 3-4 months. The plant will continue to grow new leaves replacing the ones that are dying from Fusarium. To help with long term survivability, you need to control invasive secondary diseases - for example Gliocladium (Pink Rot) here in SoCal. Mancozeb fungicide is pretty good here. Again, this is anecdotal and a lot of the time it does not work because people wait too long (like myself, twice now), but I can guarantee I know where living trees are infected with Fusarium and they are doing great. To me it is worth the effort and the cost to run soil drench and foliar spraying of Phosphates every 3-4 months is not that much. Certainly less than the cost to remove a big CIDP. Maybe you can get this one to continue to grow and hopefully someday in the near future someone finds a cure for this fungus.

[mcwolf]

Thanks for the unfortunately sad news but I had already a really bad feeling.

Do I understand it right that you can't kill the fungus but one might be able to keep the palm growing with phosphates so it doesn't bother so much any longer loosing the fronds to it?

I read that only Phoenix Canariensis and Dactylifera are prone to it and probably Washingtonia Filifera, too. I lost the latter too, when it grew next to it and I also suspected fungus. It seems that I really hit it lucky with the selection of palms in this spot.

Probably the whole garden is infected since I get willted tomatoes all over.

Can you confirm that Archontophoenix, Howeas, Syagrus and Livistonias can grow in such infected soil?

Thanks to everyone,

Wolfie

[peachy]

Wolfi, I think Len was saying that the fungus involved is species specific and only attacks CIDP and not all palms in general.

Peachy

[virtualpalm]

You may want to contact the RBG Sydney for recommended species to plant:

http://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/plant_info/pests_diseases/fact_sheets/fusarium_wilt_of_palms

BTW, Len, ZeroTol will kill pretty much anything it comes into contact with -- fungi (all kinds), bacteria, algae, invertebrates, etc. It would be used as a method of soil sterillization, not as a specific treatment for Fusarium. Even then, there is no guarantee that all of the spores would be killed because the drench would have to come into contact with them to kill them.

Jody

[peachy]

P

[LJG]

You may want to contact the RBG Sydney for recommended species to plant:

http://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/plant_info/pests_diseases/fact_sheets/fusarium_wilt_of_palms

BTW, Len, ZeroTol will kill pretty much anything it comes into contact with -- fungi (all kinds), bacteria, algae, invertebrates, etc. It would be used as a method of soil sterillization, not as a specific treatment for Fusarium. Even then, there is no guarantee that all of the spores would be killed because the drench would have to come into contact with them to kill them.

Jody

Thanks Jody, good to know. I would still never plant another CIDP in a place one was removed with Fusarium.

[LJG]

Thanks for the unfortunately sad news but I had already a really bad feeling.

Do I understand it right that you can't kill the fungus but one might be able to keep the palm growing with phosphates so it doesn't bother so much any longer loosing the fronds to it?

I read that only Phoenix Canariensis and Dactylifera are prone to it and probably Washingtonia Filifera, too. I lost the latter too, when it grew next to it and I also suspected fungus. It seems that I really hit it lucky with the selection of palms in this spot.

Probably the whole garden is infected since I get willted tomatoes all over.

Can you confirm that Archontophoenix, Howeas, Syagrus and Livistonias can grow in such infected soil?

Thanks to everyone,

Wolfie

It will attack other palm species, particularly the ones in the Phoenix genius. However it is really only a death sentence in CIDPs as others usually can fight it off. What I have seen and discussed with many others is that the Fusarium isn't the final killer of these other palms it is usually a secondary invasion. Here in SoCal pink rot is usually the main one. The plant is weak and we all know Gliocladium loves plants that are struggling.

Phosphates have been used in helping treat Fusarium infected trees here in SoCal by a few different tree guys/companies. If the tree is given a regiment on phosphates and fungicide every 3-4 months it will continue to grow what seems to be the same spead of the spread of fusarium. It is important the disease is caught early and lucky if it is working itself from the bottom rather then top or middle of crown. Again, this is anectdotal but I have personally witnessed success. If I get a chance I will go drive and take some pictures of infected trees on this regiment. One has been for 5 years now and looks great.

[kahili]

Zerotol is basically hydrogen dioxide and while its great at killing spores of fungi, its the same principle as hydrogen peroxide in that it has to come into direct contact with the spores. So its great for fungi that attack leaves where you can spray right onto the spores, or cleaning pots, shelves, tools etc. Once you start trying to treat soil, its another ballgame. It is not effective in killing spores in soil as it can't come into direct contact with it. Its not a good choice for soil treatment as the soil blocks direct contact. You would have to have the soil practically swimming in the Zerotol before it would work-maybe, but the damage that you would do to the roots etc in the soil makes it impractical as well.

[mcwolf]

Thanks for the input. I`ll keep you posted!

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

LJG,

Its Phosphites, not Phosphates. I grant you that its only one oxygen different, but the results are totally different because Phosphites are fungicides whereas Phosphates are fertilizers. Can you tell us which Phosphites they are using? Is it K-Phite? Apparently there is a K-Phite with a fertilizer grade of 3-18-20. That'd be interesting since it combines fertilizer and fungicide.

I'm losing a CIDP to Fusarium wilt as we speak. Its small, but I hate the idea of extracting that sucker from the landscape. No more CIDP's in my future.

Thanks for the unfortunately sad news but I had already a really bad feeling.

Do I understand it right that you can't kill the fungus but one might be able to keep the palm growing with phosphates so it doesn't bother so much any longer loosing the fronds to it?

I read that only Phoenix Canariensis and Dactylifera are prone to it and probably Washingtonia Filifera, too. I lost the latter too, when it grew next to it and I also suspected fungus. It seems that I really hit it lucky with the selection of palms in this spot.

Probably the whole garden is infected since I get willted tomatoes all over.

Can you confirm that Archontophoenix, Howeas, Syagrus and Livistonias can grow in such infected soil?

Thanks to everyone,

Wolfie

It will attack other palm species, particularly the ones in the Phoenix genius. However it is really only a death sentence in CIDPs as others usually can fight it off. What I have seen and discussed with many others is that the Fusarium isn't the final killer of these other palms it is usually a secondary invasion. Here in SoCal pink rot is usually the main one. The plant is weak and we all know Gliocladium loves plants that are struggling.

Phosphates have been used in helping treat Fusarium infected trees here in SoCal by a few different tree guys/companies. If the tree is given a regiment on phosphates and fungicide every 3-4 months it will continue to grow what seems to be the same spead of the spread of fusarium. It is important the disease is caught early and lucky if it is working itself from the bottom rather then top or middle of crown. Again, this is anectdotal but I have personally witnessed success. If I get a chance I will go drive and take some pictures of infected trees on this regiment. One has been for 5 years now and looks great.

[LJG]

Opps, I think I have done that twice now.

The one used here is by J. H. Biotec. It is available in a 2.5 gallon container. The recommeded amount I have been told is 2 quarts in 100 gallons of water.

Oh, and thanks kahili, you could have saved me earlier in my error as you obviously knew I was typing the wrong thing

[Charles Wychgel]

The one used here is by J. H. Biotec. It is available in a 2.5 gallon container. The recommeded amount I have been told is 2 quarts in 100 gallons of water.

Thanks for the tip Len

I have lost three CIDP on one side of my driveway and now it looks like I am going to lose a Washingtonia on the other side of the driveway and probably more unless I start this phosphites treatment

Here is a link to fusarium on Syagrus AND Washingtonia http://flrec.ifas.ufl.edu/palm_prod/pdfs/New-Disease-Queen-Palms-Mexican-Fan-Palms-July.pdf

And a pic of my sick Washingtonia

[kahili]

Sorry Len I just glanced at your post, saw the phosphates and thought "huh?", but thats all I did. I am not familiar with the product you are using because when I get fusarium (rarity for me) in a plant, they are in pots and I throw them away immediately so as to stop the fungus from spreading to other plants in the crop. I have never had to treat a plant in the ground. Good to know about the phosphites though! What I don't understand is if you are pushing growth so hard with this treatment -why is the nitrogen so low ? 3 is really low.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Kahili, the Phosphites are not fertilizers. They act as plant defense stimulants and they carry metallic ions into the plant system which are toxic to the fungi. The nutrients are important, but they are not the main reason the plants respond to the treatment. If they were, a fertilizer application alone would be adequate to prevent death. I'm losing a CIDP in the front yard to Fusarium wilt. I just hope it's the strain that is host specific to CIDP, since I've undoubtably used pruning tools on just about every palm in the yard. If not, I've been a perfectly effective Typhoid Keith spreading Fusarium like a fool.

BTW, have you been to FL lately? David and I are preparing to relocate to Winter Haven. I am keeping the house in JAX as a rental.

Love how your Jubs are thriving. When I get to RDU one of these days, I'm going to request a tour! Your successes are amazing.

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Thanks Len for the product. Ironically we're also finding the Phosphites are an important tool in managing crop decline in Citrus caused by a bacterial disease. The disease is HLB (a.k.a. Citrus Greening) and its become a global pandemic for the citrus industry. The management is Phosphites + foliar nutrient sprays containing micros, Magnesium, Nitrogen, and Potassium. Len, your post makes me wonder if something similar would work on CIDP and others infected with Fusarium. Hmmm

Opps, I think I have done that twice now.

The one used here is by J. H. Biotec. It is available in a 2.5 gallon container. The recommeded amount I have been told is 2 quarts in 100 gallons of water.

Oh, and thanks kahili, you could have saved me earlier in my error as you obviously knew I was typing the wrong thing

[kahili]

Keith-I was talking about a product that you mentioned- "Apparently there is a K-Phite with a fertilizer grade of 3-18-20. That'd be interesting since it combines fertilizer and fungicide." Just reread my post and realized that I wasn't clear that I was asking you about the K-Phite! Sorry-I shouldn't post before I have enough coffee in the early am! Does the K-Phite act as a preventive systemic? Could you use it with a annual crop?

I think you have me confused with Cindy who lives nearby. She does have wonderful jubs. I wish I had gotten some 20 years ago

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

Ha, all these years I though you were Cindy! Now that I think of it, I think she's the NCPalmQueen, or something like that right? Geeze, a light bulb moment. I'm 50 in June. Wonder how dorky I'll be @ 70?

Yes, K-Phite would be good both as a preventative or a "curative" (probably should say suppressive) treatment. Certainly they use Aliette, (the first Phosphite) on annuals to control Phytophthora and to a lesser degree Pythium. I'm not sure what diseases you might be combating, but I think the Phosphite should just be part of an overall control strategy. What plants are you thinking about, and what disease (or do you have a diagnosis?). Treating based on the symptoms alone is going to reap so-so results. There are broad spectrum fungicides one can use until a precise diagnosis can be made whereafter a very specific treatment can begin.

[kahili]

I am not thinking of any root fungi in particular, I was just wondering about it. I am a commercial wholesale annual grower and have been for over 20 yrs (man the time flies!), so over that time I have certainly seen/treated almost every fungi. Certain annuals are susceptible to certain fungi and over the course of growing you just know what to look for and what the signs are for them. Most I can diagnose on the spot by now and don't get them tested. I also do preventative spraying/drenching for certain annuals, others I wait and see and if there is a problem will hit them then. I also don't like using a fungicide unless I know exactly what I am treating. It can get very expensive very fast. But if you can't wait the few days for a diagnosis, then chances are I am using Subdue or Truban with Clearys as my first drench.

I wasn't thinking of Aliette as a phosphite, but you are right. Of the three main fungicides for pythium/phytophora that is the one that I rarely use. I am trying to use more Truban and less Subdue (I.e. leading off with Truban when I transplant) and then if there is a problem come on with the Subdue and then Truban again and that usually takes care of the problem, because at the same time we are isolating (disposing of ) any annuals with the symptoms-which as I said above, I think is the most effective move that you can make when you have a outbreak. Interesting on the fert/phosphite combo that you mentioned (and which I am still curious about the extremely low nitrogen amt in it), because normally you don't mix fert and fungicides together in the same injector, or is the K-Phite that much different than Aliette? If so, then maybe I should start using the Aliette more as it is so much easier to run the fungicide through at the same time as fertilizing.

[LJG]

Thanks Len for the product. Ironically we're also finding the Phosphites are an important tool in managing crop decline in Citrus caused by a bacterial disease. The disease is HLB (a.k.a. Citrus Greening) and its become a global pandemic for the citrus industry. The management is Phosphites + foliar nutrient sprays containing micros, Magnesium, Nitrogen, and Potassium. Len, your post makes me wonder if something similar would work on CIDP and others infected with Fusarium. Hmmm

The people treating Fusarium here got the idea do to the success using Phosphites on Fusarium for Avocado's and for Sudden Oak Death here.

For Fusarium oxysporum f. sp. canariensis it really is like you said, not curative but rather suppressive - at best.

[LJG]

The one used here is by J. H. Biotec. It is available in a 2.5 gallon container. The recommeded amount I have been told is 2 quarts in 100 gallons of water.

Thanks for the tip Len

I have lost three CIDP on one side of my driveway and now it looks like I am going to lose a Washingtonia on the other side of the driveway and probably more unless I start this phosphites treatment

Here is a link to fusarium on Syagrus AND Washingtonia http://flrec.ifas.ufl.edu/palm_prod/pdfs/New-Disease-Queen-Palms-Mexican-Fan-Palms-July.pdf

And a pic of my sick Washingtonia

Charles, start early and hopefully luck is on your side. I lost a second massive CIDP last year even with this treatment. Just bad luck but the wilt started in the upper part of the crown, not lower. Trees with the success with this treatment all are identified early and all (that I have seen) have had Fusarium show at the bottom of the crown. Maybe tomorrow or the next day I will drive to two locations where plants are treated and have lived for years with Fusarium. It will give you hope.