Juvenile triple queen and wind

[Axel Amsterdam]

I planted this juvenile triple queen a week ago which is kind of an oddity for Holland. The long fronds are grown in a nursery and therefor stretched.

How much wind can these take? Is there a risk that the fronds bring down the whole palm in strong winds? I noticed that the fronds are reasonably flexible and they are moving somewhat loosely around the trunk in the wind.

All advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Axel

[Kim]

Do you have hurricane force winds? Queens may blow over in VERY high winds, say 60 to 75 mph. (95 to 120 kph)

[MattyB]

Queen Palm fronds are usually very bendy and it's ok if they move around alot in the wind.

[PalmatierMeg]

Shouldn't be a problem. The fronds should give with the wind. My 7 queens went through hurricane Charley (130-140 mph winds) with no damage. In fact, palms in general fared great during Charley. Your standard dicot trees, however, suffered major damage or total destruction. Many palm species evolved to deal with storm winds.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Thanks for the good advice everybody. Before, I was thinking about perhaps cutting a frond or two as a precaution, but that won't be necessary anymore.

Thanks,

Axel

[Patrick]

Hi Axel.

A friend of mine down the street actually just did about 2 months ago what you have there. And the winds DID show up. It was probably 50 or so mph in gusts, with avg. speed near 20mph(what's that in KM?). There was very little protection from the wind where he had them planted. His palms weren't knocked over, but the longest fronds did manage to snap off because they were so elongated. If the big wind hadn't showed up, I think the fronds would still be there. Oh yeah, he did stake the palms so that's why they didn't get toppled. Two months later in the spring here, the palms are starting to grow and I'm sure that by the end of the summer it will look as if nothing ever happened.

I had two ideas, the first being if you know the wind is coming in a big storm and you're being cautious, maybe tie the questionable fronds together so that the weight of the wind will be put on the entire palm, not just the individual fronds. Of course you would probably have to stake it minimally, and all of this could be undone once the storm passes. I figure less stress on the root system and tree as a whole is better than nothing.

The other (and my preferred) method is to do nothing! If the wind comes and snaps the branch off, you always cut it clean after the storm has passed. The queen will still grow once it warms up. No muss, no fuss!

I do agree with the above posts as well, but a "straight from the nursery" palm can be a bit weak until it has a chance to establish itself. I still think the "wait and see" technique is best.

Oh yeah, if the palm does blow over, just stand it back up. They're pretty tough!

Happy growing.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Hi Axel.

A friend of mine down the street actually just did about 2 months ago what you have there. And the winds DID show up. It was probably 50 or so mph in gusts, with avg. speed near 20mph(what's that in KM?). There was very little protection from the wind where he had them planted. His palms weren't knocked over, but the longest fronds did manage to snap off because they were so elongated. If the big wind hadn't showed up, I think the fronds would still be there. Oh yeah, he did stake the palms so that's why they didn't get toppled. Two months later in the spring here, the palms are starting to grow and I'm sure that by the end of the summer it will look as if nothing ever happened.

I had two ideas, the first being if you know the wind is coming in a big storm and you're being cautious, maybe tie the questionable fronds together so that the weight of the wind will be put on the entire palm, not just the individual fronds. Of course you would probably have to stake it minimally, and all of this could be undone once the storm passes. I figure less stress on the root system and tree as a whole is better than nothing.

The other (and my preferred) method is to do nothing! If the wind comes and snaps the branch off, you always cut it clean after the storm has passed. The queen will still grow once it warms up. No muss, no fuss!

I do agree with the above posts as well, but a "straight from the nursery" palm can be a bit weak until it has a chance to establish itself. I still think the "wait and see" technique is best.

Oh yeah, if the palm does blow over, just stand it back up. They're pretty tough!

Happy growing.

Thanks Patrick,

When i planted it I put the pile of rocks on top of the rootball as a measure to prevent the palm from blowing over in normal winds. It couldn't even stand up straight in it's pot when it was delivered. The fronds are disproportinately long and quite heavy. Now it's planted it will probably grow shorter fronds. I will stake it when a storm is forecasted and let the fronds just go loose.

Axel

[gilles06]

Hi Axel,

Do you think wind will be a problem, and Cold not?

What min temperature did you have this winter?

[Ricigliano]

If it was my palm. I would cut all fronds in half. If not you are taking the risk of the whole palm being twisted by the wind or kinking. Also it will help keep your plant stable while it's rooting in. I whouldn't cut any live "green" fronds completely off. The fronds to come are going come out shorter anyways, do to the fact its in full sun now. Good luck

[mcwolf]

Hi Axel,

I guess one gathers some competence about wind and palms when living in the Cape of Good Hope.

I therefore go with Mike from Florida but I would wait till big winds show up. We hardly ever have freak winds of 50 miles and more but a lot wind in the 30-50 miles range throughout the summer and occasionally in winter from the other side. I have about 4 queens in the garden and they all had snapped leaves in the first years when I planted them. That's a real bummer since mine hardly grow more than 3 leaves/year.

Burned leaves might become another issue but there is not much you can do since you need all the heat you can get to grow them.

Mine were nevern blow over but most of them had clear trunks already and a heavy rootball. Yours looks fairly protected against the wall so I wouldn't be too worried. I've never seen blown over queens in our area but lots of Washies. They grow faster leaves than roots in the beginning.

Attached a photo of one which faces sea wind for most of the year.

Good Luck with yours,

Wolfie

[Axel Amsterdam]

Hi Axel,

I guess one gathers some competence about wind and palms when living in the Cape of Good Hope.

I therefore go with Mike from Florida but I would wait till big winds show up. We hardly ever have freak winds of 50 miles and more but a lot wind in the 30-50 miles range throughout the summer and occasionally in winter from the other side. I have about 4 queens in the garden and they all had snapped leaves in the first years when I planted them. That's a real bummer since mine hardly grow more than 3 leaves/year.

Burned leaves might become another issue but there is not much you can do since you need all the heat you can get to grow them.

Mine were nevern blow over but most of them had clear trunks already and a heavy rootball. Yours looks fairly protected against the wall so I wouldn't be too worried. I've never seen blown over queens in our area but lots of Washies. They grow faster leaves than roots in the beginning.

Attached a photo of one which faces sea wind for most of the year.

Good Luck with yours,

Wolfie

Thanks Mike and Wolfie,

Yes, you are right because one of the fronds snapped last night on a clear night with no wind to speak off.

Fortunately it was a frond growing from the smallest trunk which is really tiny compared to the huge snapped frond.

The fronds on the larger trunks seem to be more firmly attached. Anyway, the weather is nice and springlike and i will take some measures if any storms arrive.

Wolfie, what could be the reason syagrus grows only 3 fronds per year in your location? Are the nighttime temps too cool most of the year?

[mcwolf]

Hi Alex,

Not so sure about, probably a couple of reasons. Lack of heat during the day and warmth during the nights is one. I planted them in almost plain sandy soil is another. Since then I tried to improve soil when putting compost on top of it. It helped a little to get the fronds greener. Permanent wind is another one.

3 leaves sound really poor for a fast growing palm but on the other side it grows quite exactly 30cm/1ft of trunk every year which makes it a fast grower at my place. My fastest Washi grows about 28 fans/year and still grows hardly more trunk than this. It's actually only a few meters away from it.

Honestly there are not many pinate palms in my garden which grow more than 3-4 leaves/year other than Phoenix. Some tropicals like Foxtail produce only 2 but still look good.

I hope yours is growing at least as many with a lot of care and attention.

Greetings from windy but mild Cape Town!

PS: This is what it looked shortly after I planted it.

[Axel Amsterdam]

Yes, i understood that syagrus is considered a fast grower in terms of adding pure trunk, not so much in pushing fronds. How many years did your juvenile queen take to become the nice large one on the other picture?

On a related note i have always been fascinated how this works. There are palms, like washingtonia, which seem to be growing a trunk quickly mainly as a result of leaves production. Therefore the height is created from the top (above the meristeem).

And there seem to be palms, like queens, that create pure trunk early on without pushing large numbers of new leaves. The height seems to be created mainly from the bottom of the palm.

Could that be about right?

[mcwolf]

I don't have a scientific background I just observe palms. To me trunk growth works always the same way it just looks different. At the end of the day you can see at the spaces between the rings how fast a palm grows up. This depends mainly how will it is doing. I had quite a few transplants from already trunking palms which had huge ring spaces. After the transplanting shock spaces become tiny and stretch out later again.

If you look a pealed Washis you can also see those leave rings but they are very close together. But even Washis can get stretched trunks when they are desperate enough to reach sunlight.

Bottom line, the better the palm is doing the faster the trunk grows and different species have different growth.

Attached an example of different growth patterns at the same palm. Palms in our area grow generally more stunted than greenhouse plants.

Same palm in 30+knots this afternoon.