Moving to Vero Beach.

[empireo22]

Hi everyone. I will be moving to vero beach area in florida and was wondering what kind of palms i can grow there that actually look healthy. On my recent trip there the only palms I saw was the queen palm and sabal palm and a few dead coconuts and burnt royal palms. Basically boring stuff. Does anyone grow any tropicals there or is it just to cold to grow the same as south florida? also let me know of the fruit trees you guys are also growing in the area. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[Tomw]

Let me start off by saying that I’m by no means an expert and there are many here that can give you better information. So for now here is a quick list, and I would strongly recommend you pick up Betrock’s “Cold Hardy Palms” Book. Hopefully those that live in Orlando will pipe in….

Cold Hardy Palm Trees species and cold tolerance threshold:

o True Date Palm Trees(Phoenix dactylifera) - (Date Palms are cold hardy to 18 degrees)

o Bismarck Palm Tree (Bismarckia nobilis) - (Bismarck Palms are cold hardy to 15 – 20 degrees)

o Cabbage Palm (Sabal palmetto) - (Cabbage Palms are cold hardy to 10 - 15 degrees)

o Canary Island Date Palms(Phoenix canariensis) - (Canary Island Palms are cold hardy to 15 - 18 degrees)

o Chinese Fan Palms(Livistona chinensis) - (Chinese Fan Palms are cold hardy to 10 - 15 degrees)

o European Fan Palms(Chamaerops humilis) - (European Fan Palms are cold hardy to 5 - 10 degrees)

o Texas Sabal Palm Trees (Sabal texana, mexicana) - (Texas Sabal Palms are cold hardy to 16 - 18 degrees)

o Mediterranean (European) Fan Palms (Chamaerops humilis) - (Mediterranean Fan Palms are cold hardy to 5 - 15 degrees)

o California Fan Palms (Washingtonia filifera) - (California Fan Palms are cold hardy to 15 degrees)

o Windmill Palm Trees (Trachycarpus fortunei) - (Windmill Palms are cold hardy to 5 degrees)

o Pindo Palm Trees (Butia capitata) - (Pindo Palms are cold hardy to 12 - 15 degrees)

o Sago Palm (Cycas revoluta) - (Sago Palms are cold hardy to 20 degrees)

o Mexican Fan Palms (Washingtonia robusta) - (Mexican Fan Palms are cold hardy to 18 degrees)

o Queen Palm Trees (Syagrus romanzoffiana) - (Queen Palms are cold hardy to 20 degrees)

[palmmermaid]

Tom offers good suggestions. Try and get Dave from Vero to respond. He has lived up there many years.

I think most of the Chamaedoreas do well in the cold. There are defintely micro-climates in Vero that are warmer than the surrounding areas.

Another one I can think of is Rhapidophyllum hystrix. It is a native and grows all the up to northern Alabama. I also think most of the Livistonas will be fine there.

[MAPU 1]

Alagoptera arenaria and probably Beccariophoenix alfredii.

Arenga englerii.

Dale

[Eric in Orlando]

It depends on where in Vero Beach you are. Close to the river and over on the barrier islands are zone 10a/10b. The further from the river you get the colder it gets. West of I-95 is zone 9b.

[tikitiki]

I grow way more than that and I'm 2 hours north. The best way to do it is move in and drive around for a few days to see what is in the area. Also hit up some of the local palm meetings and tours to see what we are all growing. Good luck.

[grant b.]

Ill just throw out Nannorrhops ritchiana, Serenoa repens, and Acoelorrhaphe wrightii

[Dypsisdean]

You should be able to get tons of ideas HERE

If you see Queens growing, you should be able to grow anything from the Subtropical SSI #2B down. If you see Royals surviving, then anything from Subtropical SSI #4A on down would be a possibility. Feel free to contribute any of your experiences to improve the Index.

[empireo22]

Thanks for the repilies! I have driven around and seen very little compared to south florida. I will be about a mile from the intercoastal. Im more interested in tropical or sub tropical palms not cold hardy. such as hurricane palms, king palms, dypsis and also fruit tree like mango and dragon fruit. anyone having any luck with these and how do they look? Thanks

[Dave-Vero]

It's very much a matter of closeness to water. Melbourne Beach, Satellite Beach, and parts of Merritt Island are surprisingly warm. I'm 2.7 miles inland from the Intracoastal, and consequently have to worry about the mangoes suffering cold damage, not to mention limits on palms.

The Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society published Eric's list of palms for Orlando. All of those are safe for us.

Here's my yard, by no means the optimal palm collection for this area:

Coccothrinax are more or less hardy, depending on species or hybrid. C. argentata, the Florida species, should be unfazed by cold. I have two, both of uncertain parentage. One gets leaf damage and regrows fast, the other just cruises along.

Lytocaryum weddellianum is small but has suffered no damage.

Cryosophila warscewiczii, also no damage at all

Chamaedorea species--almost all of them should be entirely hardy.

Dypsis decaryi. I'm a bit too far inland for it to be safe from bad freezes

Dypsis plumosa. Some damage in the 26º freeze but no problem with recovery

Dypsis carlsmithii (from Searle Brothers, might be from their mature plant), no cold damage at all. It's in no hurry to get around to growing a trunk.

Carpentaria acuminata. Fried leaves, but fully recovered. Planted ca. 2005, now flowering.

Archontophoenix tuckeri. Some leaf damage, full recovery

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, only very minor leaf damage. Nest-building squirrels were far worse.

Acoelorraphe wrightii. Seedlings planted in 2003 are trunking nicely.

Thrinax radiata. Some leaf damage, currently looking fine.

Satakentia liukiuensis. Looking fine, but leaf damage indicates it's only slightly better for the area than coconut palms.

Trachycarpus sp. Doing well, but they seem to have a reputation for not lasting long in our warm climate.

Rhapis laosensis, and other species. I had trouble with R. excelsa, the common lady palm. The others are thriving.

Sabal minor (trunkless), Serenoa repens. Both make good shrubbery. Silver saw palmetto is badly underutilized in landscapes.

Allagoptera arenaria

I lost a Ptychosperma elegans to cold/bud rot

Neighbors have lots more interesting species. We are losing queen palms to disease, as well as Washingtonias. There's a big clump of Arenga engleri in the park where where the Royal Palm streets divide and a very nice spindle palm, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii. back of the community center, almost at the railroad tracks. No sign of irrigation. The Art Museum has managed not to destroy a fine pair of Ravenea (presumably R. rivularis) at the front of the building.

[Jeff Searle]

Tom (TikiTiki) and Dave (Dave-Vero) are two of the most dedicated palm collectors and growers in your area. They've been at it for years, and especially Tom being up near Orlando has really found some good species that surprisingly do very well for him. I'm sure he can send a PM with many different names of palms that he currently is growing.

Maybe once you get started, a few pictures would be appreciated by us all. Good luck!

Jeff

[Dave-Vero]

Jeff, my garden is a modest thing compared to several in the warm spots of Brevard. I wish I'd planted some Copernicias. I did pick up four more palms at the Central Florida Palm Society in December, and hope to get them planted soon.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Mule palm or any other of the newer exciting hybrids.

[Moose]

Tom (TikiTiki) and Dave (Dave-Vero) are two of the most dedicated palm collectors and growers in your area. They've been at it for years, and especially Tom being up near Orlando has really found some good species that surprisingly do very well for him. I'm sure he can send a PM with many different names of palms that he currently is growing.

Maybe once you get started, a few pictures would be appreciated by us all. Good luck!

Jeff

Alex - a hearty welcome to Palm Talk. You have come to the best place to get answers.

As Jeff has suggested, these two guys are very knowledgable and experienced source for information. The palms you saw may have been unthrifty due to neglect. Palms that are fed regularly with a properly balanced fertilizer and mulched make it through winters better than those that are not "loved". Also, the issue of micro-climes, sun exposure, and where to plant on your property are important considerations.

I would suggest you make it to the Palm Beach Palm & Cycad Society Sale at Mount's Botanical Garden on March 31. There will be many other palm-o-philes there that would be more glad to assist you with your questions.

Ron

[Dave-Vero]

The sale at Mounts Botanical Garden has lots of excellent plants and the location at Mounts is a plus--the garden has been thoroughly rebuilt in recent years, so it showcases current horticultural thinking and practice.

[palmsOrl]

The following (non-bullet proof) palms survived the 2009-2010 (lowest 25F) and 2010- 2011 (lowest 25F) winters in my yard without protection here in the northern burbs of Orlando:

Roystonea regia (28') defoliated both years, growth now totally normal

Roystonea borinqueana (30') defoliated both years, growth now totally normal

Wodyetia bifurcata (28') almost totally defoliated both years, okay now but still looks a

bit rough.

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (12') virtually no damage either year, looks great now

Ravenea rivularis (8') some leaflet burn both years (10-25%), looks great now

Bismarckia nobilis (10') genetically inferior hardiness-wise, heavy damage both years but

recovering nicely now

Acrocomia crispa (2') exposed location, very minor damage both years

Chamaedorea cataractum (3') under heavy cover, a bit of foliage damage, nothing major

Chamaedorea elegans (4') under heavy cover, a bit of foliage damage, nothing major

Chamaedorea costaricana (4') under heavy cover, no significant damage

I feel it is worth pushing the envelope with the above palms in Vero Beach, as the lows at the airport tend to be similar to those in Orlando and there is a bit more heat down there in general.

-Michael

[empireo22]

Thanks everyone for your replies! what i would like to try to grow when i get ther is Princess palm,veitichia joannis, coconut, and king palm for now then we'll see. also would like to try mangoes.... right now i have a few princess palm seedlings here in nc, but i loft a few. maybe damping off? i broke apart the stem and towards the bottom there was a fungus/ rot. I thought maybe from the store bought soil not properly draining, and i woke up this morning and i see a few more on their way out. any ideas? thankssssssssss

[tikitiki]

I'll post some pics of my yard in a few weeks to give you some idea of whay I have. ( I have to mulch first)

[Dave-Vero]

Here's the backyard palm thicket this evening. The nearest crownshaft palm is Archontophoenix tuckeri and the two tall, flowering ones at the rear are Carpentaria acuminata. A sizable sugarberry (Celtis) tree, on the neighbors' side of the fence, occupied the area until Sept. 2004.

[empireo22]

Here's the backyard palm thicket this evening. The nearest crownshaft palm is Archontophoenix tuckeri and the two tall, flowering ones at the rear are Carpentaria acuminata. A sizable sugarberry (Celtis) tree, on the neighbors' side of the fence, occupied the area until Sept. 2004.

Looks good! Loos like any yard you would see in palm beach or broward! I would load some picks but im in nc and cant grow much I could load some of my princess palm seedlings?

Anyone have any advice for the root rot fungus in the stem on my seedlings?

[PalmatierMeg]

Here's the backyard palm thicket this evening. The nearest crownshaft palm is Archontophoenix tuckeri and the two tall, flowering ones at the rear are Carpentaria acuminata. A sizable sugarberry (Celtis) tree, on the neighbors' side of the fence, occupied the area until Sept. 2004.

Looks good! Loos like any yard you would see in palm beach or broward! I would load some picks but im in nc and cant grow much I could load some of my princess palm seedlings?

Anyone have any advice for the root rot fungus in the stem on my seedlings?

Sounds like damping off. Make sure your potting mix is loose and drains well. Add extra perlite if necessary. Don't keep your seedlings too wet or sitting in water. Overwatering kills faster than underwatering. Water only when potting mix is dry to a depth of 1".

[empireo22]

Here's the backyard palm thicket this evening. The nearest crownshaft palm is Archontophoenix tuckeri and the two tall, flowering ones at the rear are Carpentaria acuminata. A sizable sugarberry (Celtis) tree, on the neighbors' side of the fence, occupied the area until Sept. 2004.

Looks good! Loos like any yard you would see in palm beach or broward! I would load some picks but im in nc and cant grow much I could load some of my princess palm seedlings?

Anyone have any advice for the root rot fungus in the stem on my seedlings?

Sounds like damping off. Make sure your potting mix is loose and drains well. Add extra perlite if necessary. Don't keep your seedlings too wet or sitting in water. Overwatering kills faster than underwatering. Water only when potting mix is dry to a depth of 1".

yeah! I have them potted in the soil mix for palms i got at walmart. but it doesnt seem to drain so well. I will stop watering so frequently and let nature take care of them. I have them now in full sun outside and its close to 80 here. maybe shade is better? I also planted 4 seedlings in the ground as an experiment to see how they grow compared to the potted ones....

[empireo22]

Here is a dead princess palm!

some reason i cant get it to up load a picture! I will have to try later.

Edited March 19, 2012 by empireo22

[empireo22]

here is one

[palmsOrl]

Yep, I believe I have lost fully 50% of the palm seedlings (and a tad bigger in size) I have ever purchased to this sooner or later. Letting the soil dry out a bit in between watering (but not too much, I have lost a few this way too) seems to be key to preventing this type of fungal death. I would also definitely try a Dictyosperma album, princess palm, if I were near the water in Vero. Good luck.