Bread and butter palms

[Cedric]

These palms I consider bread butter palms the fillers if you like the ones that grow like weeds but look lovely. We have a few here always in view where ever you are. This particular one has a nice dead straight habit and will when germinated and planted out all grow dead straight and at exactly the same speed/rate, and that is fast. So a lovely little avenue or semi circle or whatever of exactly the same height slender dead straight palms is very easy to achieve. They can take any soil as long as its moist, typhoons no problem and will grow very tall eventually if on good soil, in fact on good soil they are slightly robust as a four or so meter high palm but all eventually end up lovely slender and dead straight with a tightly ringed textured trunk of light grey. This habit and ease of growth has its uses but they also look terrific planted or sown close together in succession so you get height differences.

I always collect seed where ever I see it, it germinates like bean sprouts if fresh, wash pulp off and dry few hours then soak over night and its ready to pop. In my own garden the seed mysteriously disappears every time due to the high bird traffic the area receives.

The question I wanted to ask our esteemed panel of experts is what is it.

Locally its known as the "King palm", and right at start this is where it gets confusing in a country that has no tradition of Latin as there are a handful of very similar palms all slightly different in angle of leaf twist and trunk diam and shaft colour. So I will start with this one the "King Palm" and see how far I get.

These shots are at the gate of the HK Juvenile training centre for naughty boys on Cape Collin where I go a couple of times a week.

[Cedric]

Always one isnt there?

[Mark Wuschke]

Looks like Archontophoenix alexandrae to me. Seed germinates very well, and it's a fast grower.

I use it as a filler too - i plant them everywhere as they don't mind poor soil, as long as they get a bit of shade when young.

[peachy]

Alexander palms are as common as grass here. I put a few in along my driveway when I first moved here because I didnt really know what would live here and they were everywhere. Cedric you are going to have to figure out how to rotate sideways photos. My neck cant take the strain. My photo program has a function to do it, although it usually takes me a few minutes to figure it out. When can I go and play with the naughty boys ?? You must live in the New Territories ? As a little kid we had an aunt on the island and we used to see her a couple of times per year. Very Raj in those days..

Peachy

[redant]

I love all the forms of Archontophoenix, most are easy to grow, look very tropical, self cleaning and offer plenty of replacement palms. The purpurea is a tough one to get to grow nice in FL for some reason.

Whats up with the razor wire, are they keeping you in or others out.

[paulgila]

read the last sentence of original post,redant

[redant]

Oops. thanks.

[Mark Heath]

Those are beauties for sure Cedric. You can't have enough of them at your place, very tropical. I had a double that was huge but succomed to our last two brutal winters. sigh!

[Cedric]

Thanks for the responses one down a couple still to go of more or less the same palm species but dramaticaly different. The different varieties live in various places so it will take a moment to take all their pictures.

Im going with "Alexander palm" Archontophoenix alexandrae for this one then as its been identified by the Aussies and thats where these come from.

The next lot are at a convent Peachy! You are more than welcome to go and play with the naughty nuns but just watch your credit/visa cards, goldteeth, any metal in fact screwed down or not that includs hip replacements. The latter are a high priority. The old girls are far more cash strapped than the young men and go into a feeding frenzie whenever they spot even the vaguest potential. You should be safe.

Yes I live in the NT but the Boys home is on HKI . Only way I can have a huge garden and live in the middle of the country parks is out here in Rajastan.

Far as the sideways pictures are concerned I am working on it to absolutely no avail.

This picture wasnt sideways when I downloaded it off the camera onto my Mac but turned sideways when it was downloaded here??? Think the sites programe shuffles everything into that size thumb and if it resists it whips it onto its back as punishment?

Not sure what to do.

[Mandrew968]

I love all the forms of Archontophoenix, most are easy to grow, look very tropical, self cleaning and offer plenty of replacement palms. The purpurea is a tough one to get to grow nice in FL for some reason.

Whats up with the razor wire, are they keeping you in or others out.

He visits the naughty boys.

[Cedric]

Oops. thanks.

No worries as they say in the Antipodes. Its a rather long and poignant tale of love n heart ache the stuff of life.

While Im here these are the other Alexander palms that to my eye dont look the same, maybe alexandrae is simply a very variable one?

These are at the convent. Very tall.

[Cedric]

And here are some others in various spots. The base of the trunks on some are dead straight no foot.

[peachy]

Common old Bangalow palms my dear. Archontophoenix cunninghamia. Tough as old boots. Those really tall palms however, IMO are something else entirely. They are too tall for bangalows and I am not prepared to hazard a guess.

Peachy

[Cedric]

Remember these are "bread&butter palms" and so the word "common" is something of a tautology in this context.

"Bungalow palms" !!! What a charming name and palm too. I knew there was a difference somehow. How can you tell Peachy? Between Archontophoenix cunninghamia and alex. I suppose by now they could be hybrids too.

I just know for the next lot Peachy is going to say Carpentaria...common as cane toads or something. Five extremely attractive white trunked speciemens are given the honour to be planted in front of Norm Fosters little HSBC project downtown so I will snap those, sure they are Alexanders too.

I've collected sack fulls of fresh fruit of King Alexanders palm which I will clean up and plant in situ in clumps somewhere like a hedge or fence, I've decided you cant have enough of such a good thing. I do however also like the naturalised look so I'm going to use Oenocarpus bataua for that as they are sprouting like water-cress in the incubator - 100% germination rate its worth a party and maybe just maybe perhaps all the cash I've wasted on the other dead imported seed recently.

Oenocarpus are going to really look wild they have that nice mysterious dark shaggy unkempt look I cherish in palms and should reach into the sky through the evergreen broad leaf forest which will keep them safe moist and warm in their first few cool dry seasons. The Archontophoenic alexandrae will look I suppose like D. lutescens but without all those yellow old leaves (often wonder if Lime will help will give it an experiment).

I will take some pictures of the Alexanders growing here already they look lovely though their leaves are far far longer and so are the leaflets and number of leaves (huge) and larger trunk size than the city ones, the leaves definitely hanging bellow the horizontal too, these are planted behind and on a small mountain that receives water seep from springs and only morning sunshine in the dry season more in the wet but then the sun hardly ever shines in the wet season. Anyway perhaps growing conditions have made them far more robust than most.

[Cedric]

So without beating about the bush as usual, here are the first

[Cedric]

And here are some more, these are very different in that they are substantial palms, the undersides of the leaves are silver the leaflets broader and the seeds smaller than either of the other two. They self seed all over the place, I collected seed of these today, looks like someone has been enjoying the fruit.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Cedric

[Cedric]

Oh ooops cant remove the pictures seems i downloaded the wrong ones, only the first two above apply, and these bellow. This palm seems very different to the other 2 species and yet. These two here are also to my eye different, could one be maxima?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Cedric

[Cedric]

Its the smaller seed, the other is Arenga.

[Z4Devil]

It always depends on the persepective of view, Cedric.

In Australia it may be the Alexander palm, in Italy a Trachycarpus and in Spain or Tunesia the Phoenix.

In Germany have been planted a lot of Trachys and sometimes Jubaeas but not always with success. The last 4 winters with temperatures of - 20°C and less are too cold for them.

Okay, if you intend to buy some palms in a German garden center you will nearly always find that species:

1. Trachycarpus fortunei

2. Phoenix canariensis and roebellinii

3. Areca catechu

4. Chamadorea elegans and triandra

5. Jubaea chilensis

5. Livistona chilensis

6. Washingtonia filifera

7. Howea forsteriana

8. Chrysalidocarpus or Syagrus (?) lutescens

I guess this is our standard sortiment.

Best regards, Verena

[Cedric]

Areca catechu Z4Devil??? is confusing cause in Europe they sometimes mostly call Areca palms what we know as D. lutescens. I had a bit of a tiff with a grower in Holland for calling Dypsis . lutesens Areca then exporting them to us in HK. While Areca catechu grows here beutifullly (see pic bellow) I thought a mini pot of hundreds of seedlings of the thing ideal for planting out in the garden only to discover they were D lutesens which I dont need anymore off.

Our most common street plams are in any order

Roystonia regia

Archontophoenix most of them in their millions

Livistonia Chinensis

Dypsis lutescens and some newer species creeping in.

Areca catechu

Sygarus Romanzoffiana

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

Phoenix roebelenii

Phoenix loureirii

Phoenix sylvestris

Wodyetia

Er the list was quite short but now getting long and growing much to my delight due mainly to Disney World shipping in thousands of mature trees and plams from around the world. Many wont make it but many more will and many haven't made it, those that are making it are already fruiting happily after four years and seedlings are being grown.

I've fallen in love with trachycarpus all over again. In Europe I always thought it a bit skinny hairy and dull but planted right out here it looks remarkably handsome, and it is in its own right of course but as you say when it on the short list it becomes a bit boring where as here its an exotic and rather lovley. Love the thin thin leaf stalk and dainty floating leaves little crown, I think it will look stunning as a clustering number which Im going to do first thing as i'v found some nice sized ones, here they seem to have bare trunks mostly er the five I've ever seen here that is.

Funny thing bout Hong Kong is every once in awhile you come across something unusual like Hyophorbe Indica and you think hey I never saw you before

[Cedric]

My point was trying to ID these Archontophoenix,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Peachy &nbsp;the first palm posted here A. alexandrae palm is not the same as the last one I (not cunninghamiana which I can ID now thanks to U) have posted, the seed is completely different any rate, its smaller tiny and slightly compressed elliptical shape same colour skin etc. alexandrae are almost spherical and larger bout twice the size. Some Alexandrae also do not have much silver undersides to leaves at all in fact look plain green.</div>

Edited February 17, 2012 by Cedric

[Axel Amsterdam]

I've fallen in love with trachycarpus all over again. In Europe I always thought it a bit skinny hairy and dull but planted right out here it looks remarkably handsome, and it is in its own right of course but as you say when it on the short list it becomes a bit boring where as here its an exotic and rather lovley. Love the thin thin leaf stalk and dainty floating leaves little crown, I think it will look stunning as a clustering number which Im going to do first thing as i'v found some nice sized ones, here they seem to have bare trunks mostly er the five I've ever seen here that is.

Hi Cedric,

any chance of a picture what trachycarpus looks like in HK?

thanks,

Axel

[Cedric]

Here they are Axel, must say these are the first and last I've seen planted here, before this I discovered three nice ones in pots for sale. Im not sure 100% which Trachycrpus species they are but they are doing well with no help at all, maybe a bit of canary guano.

[Cedric]

YES!!! Dictospernum album is what it is Im sure of it....well unless someone disagrees, the calyx is persistent on the fruit which is much smaller just two immediate differences. So happy about this I've collected a load of fresh fruit and going into business. I thought it was some kind of Archintophoenix which still confuse the hell out of me as they are so subtly different and everywhere.

This is a lovely attractive palm and not at all common here, in fact think these are the only few i've stumbled across.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Cedric

[Cedric]

Axel I just wanted to add how nice it is to see a palm being used like this, sparingly and only the one species, it creates an instant calm and sense of place setting off the area and palm extraordinarily well.

I think palm gardeners like myself could well take heed of this maybe setting aside areas, rooms corridors, hillsides whatever the scope within a larger space or even small garden and using a single palm species to accent them or creating a habitate with suitably appropriate and simple underplanting with maybe another single species, colour to enhance the palm colours using flowers. So often I see a mixed jumble of species like a cottage garden on steroids, the palms are completely wasted as they compete for attention, sometimes Islands of single random species or colour swirling around like stands in L'hypermarché resulting in a lack of purpose and to be honest incallcating a rather boring experience as each special characteristic of a palm is lost . I think the eye needs space within a space to caress every detail of a species.

Er hmm all palm collectors exempt of course!

Im honestly tempted here to rip up most of my palms in a cleansing excersise.......joking of course.