We have just experienced the worst freeze on the West Coast in 17 years, which is quite a long period. In 1998 N. Calif. was hit by a brief blast of artic air that did considerable damage, but apparently it did not affect S. Cal.  We have all been lulled into complaciency with the recent years of mild winters and we have planted more and more tropical, to sub-tropical palms.

I suggest you all pull up Mediterrianen Climate on the web.  It's one of the most desirable climates on earth and only comprises about 3% of the earth's land surface.  We are blessed to live in such a wonderful climate as this, but every 10 years or so, we can expect something like we have just gone through and it's not pretty.  Many of you palmoholics have never experienced something like this, and some of us have been through this several times.

When I moved to Walnut Creek in 1973, I knew I was moving into a harsh climate. There had just been a hard freeze and even the P. canariansis and Washingtonias were browned.  I did a lot of researsh on cold hardy palms and found there were many that I could grow here, even under the worse conditions.  I desigened my garden so that the hardy palms would be the basis for my palm garden and if worse came to worse....I would still have a presentable palm garden.

In 1998/90 Calif. experienced the worst freeze in 53 years and all of my palms survived except one Caryota...which I knew wouldn't make it here over the long run.  After a year or two, my garden was intact.  It looked rather dismal for the first year after the freeze but all the palms made it through.

Don't get me wrong....if I lived in S. Cal, I'd probably have every Dypsis I could get my hands on, but I'd have the basic structure of a landscape of tried and proven hardy palms.  We all have different tastes in what we want to achive in a landscape.  Some want the jungle effect, and others, such as myself want a more structured garden.

My suggestion is if you now have bare spots in your palm garden, give carefull consideration to what you want in the future....when the next cold blast from the Artic hits us, as it surely will. (Not to soon, I hope).

Dick

Wise words Dick. While still a little shell shcoked, I am actually looking forward to seeing what pulls through and what dies (hopefully nothing). Going to have to wait a while on that however.

Dick - well written and excellent advice for anyone living anywhere.  (I think that pretty much encompasses everyone in the world).    Of course my thinking is that it applies to more than palms but to every aspect of landscaping.

Dick,

while this advice is definitely the "safe" way to live, I think that if everyone only planted what they knew would survive than we'd never really get to know the cold-hardiness of other species. I'm a big believer in doing what no one else has done or is willing to - but that's just my rebelious nature.  Maybe I'll think differently when I'm older.

What makes this so bad is the length of time.  

Three days running, likely a fourth, and a fifth, and no sign of any letup at my place, at least.

Time will tell . . . .

dave

Hi Bobby,

I can assure you that your attitude will change as you get older. I can also assure you that palms won't grow on Long Island unless grown inside.  I can also bet that you will be in S. Florida or Hawaii before your 35......and that you will have a fabalous palm garden.

Dick

Hi Bobby,

I can assure you that your attitude will change as you get older. I can also assure you that palms won't grow on Long Island unless grown inside.  I can also bet that you will be in S. Florida or Hawaii before your 35......and that you will have a fabalous palm garden.

Dick

Well, Dick..you may be right about the first one ... I may change when I get older, but the other 2 you're definitely wrong about.... First, I'm over 35 (38 to be exact) and I currently have (3) palms in the ground on Long Island growing just fine (they are protected though...lol)

Dick...WOW... The worst the worst freeze in 17 years on the West Coast?... I am not so sure that we were even close to 1990's freeze. My coldest in 1990 was 22.9f... this year 26.9f.

The 26.9f falls within my yearly averages.

Some unprotected palms that made it without a bit of damage... Kentia, Dypsis Baronii, Dypsis ambositrae, Chambreyonia Macrocarpa, Ceroxylon Alpinium.

Small amount of damage on Parajubea Cocoides...

So my thought ... if this is the worse we get... time for Home Depot to start stalking up on these guys in our area.

My Kings... look like hell though... Even large trunking Illaware Kings have most of the leaves torched. Not one that I would recomend.

Jeff

Note to self:  Get some canopy.

(BobbyinNY @ Jan. 16 2007,14:35)

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Dick,

while this advice is definitely the "safe" way to live, I think that if everyone only planted what they knew would survive than we'd never really get to know the cold-hardiness of other species. I'm a big believer in doing what no one else has done or is willing to - but that's just my rebelious nature.  Maybe I'll think differently when I'm older.

I'll lean towards Bobby's view on this, though it makes sense to put in place throughout the landscape proven winners for the worst possible scenarios.  But because of our risk, we are going to learn a lot from this current pain.  There are reports that are shocking me....Dypsis Orange Crush surviving 20F?!  Others showing no damage in mid-20's when that was supposedly a death-bell?!  And then there's Wodyetia, heavily touted by the Big Boxes, getting fried at every turn.  How about those 5 individual Archon. cunninghamiana surving below 20F, even mid-teens?

And that this freeze is lasting so many days will really prove the winners here.   We've got to push the envelope with some of our landscape.  It's human nature to want to explore and reach, and that's what we're doing.

I'll lean towards Bobby's view on this, though it makes sense to put in place throughout the landscape proven winners for the worst possible scenarios.  But because of our risk, we are going to learn a lot from this current pain.  There are reports that are shocking me....Dypsis Orange Crush surviving 20F?!  Others showing no damage in mid-20's when that was supposedly a death-bell?!  And then there's Wodyetia, heavily touted by the Big Boxes, getting fried at every turn.  How about those 5 individual Archon. cunninghamiana surving below 20F, even mid-teens?

And that this freeze is lasting so many days will really prove the winners here.   We've got to push the envelope with some of our landscape.  It's human nature to want to explore and reach, and that's what we're doing.

Kathy, you explained it very well.... Must be the "artist" in us

I think what Dick was trying to say is to base your garden/landscape on proven hardy species, then experiment all you want in all the other spaces knowing that these may be lost every 10 years or so. This is what I am currently doing in North Florida. I plant Sabals, Phoenix sp. ect. as my foundation then will experiment with other less hardy species when my foundation has been set.

David, I am doing the same thing.  I have as centerpiece palms, Washingtonias and a CIDP, knowing these are hardy.  Then, I plan on continuing to infill with some more tender items that could possibly be lost once every X years.  I plan on experimenting with some Kings in the spring and providing protection if/when needed in the winter.

(PalmGuyWC @ Jan. 16 2007,15:27)

QUOTE

Hi Bobby,

I can assure you that your attitude will change as you get older.

I dunno, Dick.  I'm a good bit older than Bobby, and I kind of agree with what both of you are saying.

While it makes sense to grow according to your zone - at least the staples of your garden or landscape - on the other hand, if we don't take chances, we don't find out about the extent of a palm's cold-tolerance.

This was the case with the silver Bismarkia and T. morrisii - they're more cold-tolerant than originally thought.  Would either be planted in Central FL if no one experimented?

Zone info tells me I'm crazy to plant a spindle in St. Pete - it's a zone 10b palm and my area is 10a, well, usually.  Yet it's growing like a rocket - and there are bottles here of significant age, that are surviving in the ground (unprotected in the last freeze!) just down the road.  Quite a few D. lutescens here are finally reaching maturity - perhaps they are suited for our area, although it originally seemed not so.

(Kathy @ Jan. 16 2007,16:12)

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Dypsis Orange Crush surviving 20F?!  Others showing no damage in mid-20's when that was supposedly a death-bell?! ... How about those 5 individual Archon. cunninghamiana surving below 20F, even mid-teens?

Orange Crush and Archontos?  They really survived those temps?  Gosh, be sure to collect the seeds from those!

Through all this freezing weather, out of the 80+ species I'm growing in the ground, only Wodyetia and Archontophoenix were damaged. The Archys will look fine by mid summer. I'll have to wait and see with the foxtails. Two are bronzed out and two are completely green. At least 1/3 of the palm species in my yard are not considered hardy for my area yet they all seem to ignore the "experts" who rated them. I have to play it pretty safe with my client's landscapes but anything can happen in mine and I don't care what the cost is. I want the "look".

I've had droves of people in the neighborhood coming by to see my garden after the freeze and most are astonished that so little looks different than before the freeze. I understand Dick completely though. Not having to worry  so much about a big freeze would be nice but Dick lives in one of the coldest Bay Area locations which really limits him with palm choices compared to those of us in the milder parts.

Hi All,

Yes, Jim, your right, I get colder in the winter, and that means every winter, in my location.  Because of that fact, I've had to be very carefull in my selection of palms.  I decided early on that I didn't want to view burned out palms in the spring from my house or the patio/pool area, so I planted very hardy palms near by.  I planted the more "iffy" things in the back of the property out of view of the house or from the street.  I've never bothered to count, but even with my limitations, I must have over 50 different species and varieties, and that's not counting the many different kinds of Rhapis in my collection. (Most of the Rhapis are in containers and can be moved about).

I was lucky when I started my garden as the back portion was nothing but a plowed field with two huge Oaks, so one might say, I started with a blank canvis. I also had to be carefull not to plant anything to close to the Oaks as the Valley Oak will die from Oak root fungus if watered in the summer. Another limiting factor was that there weren't that many palms available when I began landscaping.  We didn't have all those wonderful palm nurserys back in 1973. Even with these limitations, I think all would agree that I have a very palmy looking garden.

In the begining I realized I couldn't have everything that would grow here.  I've kept the Phoenix population low because they are kind of high maintainance and the spines are viscious.  I only have one CIDP as it's to tall for me to work on and has to be professionally trimed every few years. I had one P. dactilifera removed as it had become a hazard to close to a path.

One thing I've learned, a garden is not a static object, but continues to change as plants grow taller and there is more shade.  In the begining there was to much sun, and now I have to really search to find a sunny spot. In recent years, I'm having fun planting complimentry plants under the palms to give my garden that "tropical" look.

Not that I'm a complete conservative fuddy duddy, recently I'm slowly removing my rose garden to make room for some of the newer introductions, such as Bismarkia, Parajubaea T V T and a butia X Parajubaea hybrid.  I'm keeping in mind that these all grow to be large palms and take up a lot of space, that is, if they survive this latest freeze.

I think it's really great that you guys and gals are pushing the limits and it will be interesting to see what makes it through this freeze.  I think it's really to early to tell yet and the results may not be known till spring.

Dick

As Mat suggested a good canopy makes all the difference.

I intend to have a go with a Royal under Acacia dealbata for frost protection and the natural nitrate produced by the roots should be a good tonic.

Dont send for the guys in white coats - someone has gotta try here!

Sourcing the Roystonea here is not going to be easy tho.

Weather here is very windy with rain.

Gales are forecast soon: one of the joys of coastal living!

Regardez

Juan

Orange Crush and Archontos?  They really survived those temps?  Gosh, be sure to collect the seeds from those

Sunny, I'm having a hard time swallowing that too.... Maybe it's too early to tell.... I can't believe something that looks as tropical as an Orange Crush survived 20f... that's monumental.... If it's really true, I want 5 of them.

I can assure you that neither palm would survive those temps in Florida.  

I can assure you that neither palm would survive those temps in Florida.  

I tend to agree with you, Ray...... I can't believe that it would survive a frosty 20 here or Florida  (our 20f is probably similar to yours if you got one).  Cali probably had like 10% humidity during that cold.

Like Bobby said, the low humidity (16-22% here) is what kills you...  It is hard to know how much to water the plants since they are dryed out each day and then frozen each night.

I blame the whole thing on Alaska.

JD

(JD in the OC @ Jan. 17 2007,13:44)

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I blame the whole thing on Alaska.

JD

Contact Al Gore at once!

Can't we just put build some kind of a device to keep that jetstream flat so the cold air stays in canada where it belongs.

Dang! wrote a reply, then deleted instead of posted....

MY Dypsis Orange crush endured under 31F about a month ago AND the first 30F night. I was hard pressed to see any damage.  (It was one of the ones I chickened out and took in on the second night.)

(BobbyinNY @ Jan. 17 2007,04:56)

QUOTE

Orange Crush and Archontos?  They really survived those temps?  Gosh, be sure to collect the seeds from those

Sunny, I'm having a hard time swallowing that too.... Maybe it's too early to tell.... I can't believe something that looks as tropical as an Orange Crush survived 20f... that's monumental.... If it's really true, I want 5 of them.

You guys need to read these freeze reports very carefully. The report on the Orange Crush was

"made it thru 20d., no frost, outside under the eaves of the house with zero damage."

Depending on the eves and if it was up against a heated outside wall, it could have been 5-10 degrees warmer than fully exposed outside.

Hi all

I was shocked to see the freezing temps that Cali has been experiencing. Hope all palms make it through, however most species (moderate to slow growing species in particular) will look like crap for years to come and may not make it even though they look okay at the moment.

I looked up 20f on my converter and that is -6.6c, I doubt that Dypsis o.c will be around for another 3 months.

I agree with Dick, grow what you know will survive your areas all time low and still look good. I will try just about every palm I can get my hands on, then again our lowest ever temp is 3c (37.4f), if it looks like crap for more than 2 years then out it comes and I will try something else!

Good luck for the rest of Winter!

Cheers

Dennis

Man, I feel for you guys. The cold temps you've had I can't even imagine. Here we have temps similar to Southern Cal/Northern Mexico but have warmer summers, however we never get the cold arctic blasts you get every few years. It's never snowed here and the record cold for Perth since the 1880's is neg 0.7C (31F) which just happened last year. The previous record  was 0C (32F) who knows when that was. We may get a light frost once a year in exposed conditions every other year. But the cold temps you guys have had I've never even experienced on an indoor iceskating rink. I hope you guys get a nice hot, humid summer with summer rain to make up for all this sort of crap.

best regards

Tyrone

Here it is Jan 18th, and my swimming pool is covered with ice for the 2nd morning in a row.  The temp is about 28F this morning.  I haven't been keeping really accurate records, but I think I've only had two mornings above freezing in the past month.  This is the longest sustained period of cold I can remember in Walnut Creek.  This even surpases the freeze of 98/90 in duration.  I think my pool is cold soaked and the reason for ice and the temp not being that low.

My house is chock full of potted palms and they have been inside for about a week now....and they need watering.  The lows are forcast for just at freezing for the next week, but I think I must move the palms back outside today so they can be watered.

With the addition of a cute new puppie pissing all over the house, and palm fronds slapping me in the face inside, and so cold outside, it's fit for a polar bear, I'm about to snap!! I hope all of you are copeing better than I am, but this is begining to wear on me.

The good new is...I haven't seen any significant damage to the palms in the garden, but it's probably to early for real damage to show.

Dick