What is wrong with this Jubeutiagrus (Jubaea x Butia)x Syagrus romanz.

[Alberto]

This is my ugliest Jubeutiagrus. Since it was in a pot it shew this dark brown spots on the leaves. I planted it in the ground.It grew a lot but never out grew this problem that only appears on the older fronds. The uppersides show this dark brown spots that makes the leaflets look totally brown.The underside remains a better greener appearence. What is this? A disease caused by a mite or another critter.... (it was sprayed with a ´´mite killer´´) or a lack of some nutrient?

[BS Man about Palms]

?

[Trava]

Maybe watering on full sun?

[Alberto]

Maybe watering on full sun?

It´s only watered when it rains.......

[sonoranfans]

This is a more extreme case of what is happening to my x-jubutyagrus. It has really been raining very frequently over the last 6-8 weeks and mine have a lesser degree of this brown spot, and its on newer fronds as well but notably less prevalent. I have also been treating with neem oil. these palms apparently just dont like frequent rain. And since my x-butyagrus doesnt mind, it actually loves the rain, it I suspect its a jubaea genetic issue with excessive moisture.

[gilles06]

maybe cold and wet together make that? Does it happens in summer?

salut.

[merrillwx]

Gentlemen:

My XJubutyagrus here at Forest Grove [extreme No. central FL] has looked better during this extended rainy season than any time before! It is 20 feet tall. The XJubutyagrus in Gainesville [ a sibling] still looks better, and is taller because it was planted earlier.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[tank]

looks like sooty mold.

[tank]

If it is sooty mold, its easy to treat.

http://baker.ifas.ufl.edu/Horticulture/documents/BlackSootyMoldonLandscapePlants.pdf

I have a sago and a mule palm near a sugar berry (Celtis Laevigata). The poo from one of the parasites on this tree is heavy in sugars and drops from the tree to these plants. The sooty mold forms on the sugary poo.

[merrillwx]

Gentlemen:

Perhaps my XJubutyagrus have escaped the susceptible stage by virtue of their present greater size, altho my dim memory is that they've never had the difficulty some of you describe.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[sonoranfans]

Mine have no overhead, but the dew and light rain have been almost constant. Im not talking of many inches of rain, Im talking about constant wet leaflets in the evening, all night, and in the morning over the last 6 weeks. Light rain almost every day with condensing humidity overnight. It was certainly not like this last year. Archontophoenix, bizzies, and kentiopsis love it, some of my other palms are complaining more recently. Dypsis ambositrae(true, heeled)are starting to spot. None apear to be in mortal danger, though the braheas might be telling me it could be tough long term. Dew is always alot heavier near the ground so it could be that taller palms arent experiencing the same constant dampness. I am not worried longterm about jubutyagrus in this area, but it is obviously related to the season as all three of mine(100' apart) have some degree of spot

[Alberto]

Here it also rained a lot last months and dew is a constant. Some of my smaller Braheas also shows brown spots on older leaves.

[tank]

If its mold, you should be able to rub some of "it" off. I cleaned my cycads off with a pressure washer and many of the leaves came clean. Couldn't really do that with the mule palm. Sooty mold actually does better in the dry months as the rain will wash any sap or insect crap off of the leaves. You may have something else.

[amazon exotics]

try hitting it with liquid iron. Be very careful and use exactly what the directions say.

[PalmGuyWC]

I once had a Butia and a Butyagrus that had foliage problems. The fronds on the Butia would brown tip every year and continued to do it no matter how much I irrigated it or gave it fertilizer. The Butyagrus would develop ugly black spots whenever the temps dropped down to 40F. I finally decided they were genetically inferior so I removed them. Not all palms are created equal.

Dick

[Nigel]

I once had a Butia and a Butyagrus that had foliage problems. The fronds on the Butia would brown tip every year and continued to do it no matter how much I irrigated it or gave it fertilizer. The Butyagrus would develop ugly black spots whenever the temps dropped down to 40F. I finally decided they were genetically inferior so I removed them. Not all palms are created equal.

Dick

I think this is the only explanation Dick. If you look at the evidence, firstly it is badly stunted and growing slowly, and secondly the cell structure of the upper leaf is being destroyed whilst the underside is green and photosynthising to keep the plant alive.

This suggests either intolerance of cold or photosensitivity to sunlight, so it is genetic.

[sonoranfans]

The only problem with the genetic hypothesis here is that they do not consider that the same brown spots are appearing on all my non climate wet climate loving palms. Our springs are quite dry and none of it was evident till the rain hit. Genetic inferiority might be plausible if it were not occuring over a number of species at the same time when it was not in evidence 3 months ago. Now livistona mariae, chamaerops cerifera, and wodyetia are showing the same brown spot, but on the older leaflets only. Last night I even noticed some spot on the lower fronds of my mule palm. So I would say statistically that the genetic hypothesis is apparently unlikely. It is raining again right now, coming off the gulf, and dew condensed last night. Its sticky, even for here. Archontos, kentiopsis, Dypsis lutecens, and bizzies love this weather... The accumulation may not match other areas but the degree of constant dampness and wet is not necessarily related to total rainfall.

[Alberto]

If its mold, you should be able to rub some of "it" off. I cleaned my cycads off with a pressure washer and many of the leaves came clean. Couldn't really do that with the mule palm. Sooty mold actually does better in the dry months as the rain will wash any sap or insect crap off of the leaves. You may have something else.

If it is mold, it´s certainly not sooty mold .

[Alberto]

try hitting it with liquid iron. Be very careful and use exactly what the directions say.

I also think it´s not iron defficiency because our soils here are rich in it.

[tank]

Alberto,

I'd try a few different avenues before you declare your palm genetically inferior and rip it out . I'd first try a fungicide if you haven't already, and maybe a systemic. The pdf I posted is from the University of Florida "Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences". They actually have a pretty good set of documents on various plant diseases and I believe an area dedicated specifically to palm pests and diseases. You might want to check it out if you have time.

[tank]

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/topic_palm_diseases

[tank]

Also, my jubutyagrus sees a regular rain, irrigation and very high humidity. I have yet to see this type of leaf "decline" on either of mine.

[sonoranfans]

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/topic_palm_diseases

Thanks tank, my spotting is apparently the "Stigmina palmivora" (large brown spots). And as stated in the article, it is endemic to humid environments, multiple fungicide treatments are required, and fungicide does not improve the leaflet appearance it just prevents spread to new leaflets.

[Alberto]

One year and seven months later, the problem remains. I think it´s the same case as with Buffy´s Jubutyagrus, but worser.

[Alberto]

First pic shows an older leave, second pic an intermediate leave and third a newly open leave.

[Alberto]

Three bended leaflets showing the underside surfaces of of the leaflets full of brown dots (I think because they were exposed to the sun?)

Second pic: After "straightened", the same leaflets,you can see the better green collor of the leaflets side not exposed to the sun.Compare to the surface of the other leaflets...

[Alberto]

This pic shows a normal underside of the leaflet (right) and a leaflet (left side) that was broken making that part of it was exposed to the sun (full of brown dots) and another part remains a normal collor green (not exposed to sun)

Second pic: close up of the problem!

I´ll give lot of organics, potassium, dolomite, spray with fungicides and see what happens..............

[Alberto]

Sergi, are you saying that the Jubutyagrus growing in shade shows more leave spots???

Take a look at mine.i have the impression that the sun causes the black spotting.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Alberto, it might not be the sun, but it might be exposure to dew. If it's a fungus, it will thrive on the dew keeping the leaves moist at night and grow. Dew forms on the exposed side of the leaves, pretty much identical to sun exposure. Either way, sunburn doesn't show up as little dots.

[sergiskan]

Sergi, are you saying that the Jubutyagrus growing in shade shows more leave spots???

Take a look at mine.i have the impression that the sun causes the black spotting.

very interesting..., thats means that sun have influence, perhaps high temperture at the live tissue, or ultraviolet, but may be it is consequence about a problem at roots or soil...

how long time have been folded those three leaflets without sun exposure??

[Alberto]

Sergi, are you saying that the Jubutyagrus growing in shade shows more leave spots???

Take a look at mine.i have the impression that the sun causes the black spotting.

very interesting..., thats means that sun have influence, perhaps high temperture at the live tissue, or ultraviolet, but may be it is consequence about a problem at roots or soil...

how long time have been folded those three leaflets without sun exposure??

I don´t know how long, but certainly since the leaves were totally clean of the brown dots.

[Mark Heath]

I am interested in this thread for sure. I have a few XButyagrus' out at the ranch that show the same trait. I will await a diagnosis so i can fix my problem as well.

I will say though that mine are in full sun and there is allways a heavy dew every morning.

[Alberto]

I have my doubts about the "dew theory". Yesterday morning I took a look at the palms in the early morning, and I saw dew on both, the upper and underside of the leaflets..........

[buffy]

I applied some badass fungacide used for grasses, that my Dad gave me, around the roots. It's supposed to solve the nasty grass funguses through the roots. Let's see what happens over the season.

[Alberto]

Topic about my problematic Jubutyagrus, that I concluded is a kind of sensitivity to sun.

[Yort]

To me this definitely looks like a nutrient difficiancy, the fact that the signs are only visable on the old leaves point to a nutrient that is easily transported and mobile in the plant. I would say this is Phosphate dificiency. Leaves are known to turn purple/brown when suffering from Phosphate difficiancy especially when plants are stressed.

[sergiskan]

Also to me, but my guess is that the roots can’t uptake the nutrients, with cold and wet soil in the roots is more visible.

[sergiskan]

May be genetic, from my two specimens, one grows well, and the other was impossible to keep fine(ph or nutrients), was digged out.

[Alberto]

......yrs but..... why the "blackening" only appears on the leaves and part of the leaves exposed to the sun?

[sergiskan]

4 hours ago, Alberto said:

......yrs but..... why the "blackening" only appears on the leaves and part of the leaves exposed to the sun?

Hi Alberto.

Due to my English level I don’t know how explain.

In yours pics also it has black spots in the upper side of the leaflets, also the older leafs turn necrotic when they must stay green more time.

To me the palms doesn’t have capability to uptake enough nutrients from the roots to keep green all the leaves, and they take it from older leaves(Macronutrients internal movement).

Is only a crazy opinion;)

best regards.