Removing dead leafs from palms...

[Kostas]

Hello,

I would like to ask you how its best to remove dead leafs from palms without risking to damage the trunk even the least bit. I am asking for both crownshafted palms which can retain some dead leafs at their base because they are supported by the ground,and for non crownshafted palms like Washingtonia robusta which is seen both with naturally bare trunks and with peticoat. How can i remove the already detaching dead leafs from a crownshafted palm without risking scaring its green trunk and how can i help a Washingtonia robusta have a naturally bare,undamaged trunk when mature?

Thank you very much in advance!

[The Silent Seed]

This is an old topic - some people use box cutters - but I cannot imagine how effective that really is. I'd suggest a hand held switchblade saw - those are super sharp, and cut really well. Just be careful not to cut the trunk. Or, pruning shears, long-arm, or hand-held, depending on how big the petioles are.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your reply!

I am not interested in cutting the dead leafs or petioles,only in removing them the way nature intended to and about when nature intended to. Just want to know what/if i can do something to help the process somewhat

[Stevetoad]

if you want them to fall off on there own you just have to wait. the washies out here dont "self clean" until they get very large and even then sometimes they dont or only loose some. carpet knives seem to be the way to go for cleaning the trunk. as for crown shafts just wait till there solid brown and pull them off. should coem off with very little effort.

[The Silent Seed]

Yes, just pull gently, and when a leaf is ready, it will come right off. This, however, gives "pests" a much better place to proliferate, which is something to consider.

[Dave-Vero]

For some large crownshafted palms, it's prudent to cut leaves at the top of the crownshaft shortly before they'd fall naturally (when the crownshaft itself turns brown).

I haven't figured how to get a clean-trunked Washingtonia. No one in Florida wants to leave the big shags of dead leaves in place (I guess they could go flying in a hurricane), but leaf bases seem very slow to fall off spontaneously. With Sabal palmetto, when the tree reaches a certain size, the leaf bases tend to be pretty rotten, and much of the material can be gently encouraged to come down.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replies and help!

I will be waiting out most of the dead leafs to fall on their own but wanted to know what i can do to help them when the dead leafs get tangled somewhere and gravity cant do its job. I did thought of gently pulling the dead leafs off the green trunk but then remembered some photos with scarred trunks from early dead leaf removal by the owner and really want to avoid scarring the trunk of my palms. So,how is it the safest way to pull it and when? Should i pull upwards,downwards,sideways?

So,i see that with the Washingtonia its best to just wait them out till they get mostly dislodged by themselves. I have actually witnessed a Washingtonia robusta with peticoat have the lower 2/3rds of its peticoat collapse in seconds and form and huge mass of peticoat at its base. It was awesome to see and the dropped leafs where still a mass circling the trunk at the base,they didnt separate from each other! I hope my Washingtonia sheds them earlier than that one though as it was 5-6meters tall when that happened....

From what i have seen here,if you cut the dead leafs and leave the leaf base,it will take much longer for them to fall on their own as there will be no weight pulling the leaf bases down or wind jerking the dead leafs around and causing them to dislodge and fall

Thank you very much in advance!

[pogobob]

Yes, just pull gently, and when a leaf is ready, it will come right off. This, however, gives "pests" a much better place to proliferate, which is something to consider.

I bet you're preety good at removeing palm leaves from trunks up there

[Al in Kona]

Thank you very much for your replies and help!

I will be waiting out most of the dead leafs to fall on their own but wanted to know what i can do to help them when the dead leafs get tangled somewhere and gravity cant do its job. I did thought of gently pulling the dead leafs off the green trunk but then remembered some photos with scarred trunks from early dead leaf removal by the owner and really want to avoid scarring the trunk of my palms. So,how is it the safest way to pull it and when? Should i pull upwards,downwards,sideways?

So,i see that with the Washingtonia its best to just wait them out till they get mostly dislodged by themselves. I have actually witnessed a Washingtonia robusta with peticoat have the lower 2/3rds of its peticoat collapse in seconds and form and huge mass of peticoat at its base. It was awesome to see and the dropped leafs where still a mass circling the trunk at the base,they didnt separate from each other! I hope my Washingtonia sheds them earlier than that one though as it was 5-6meters tall when that happened....

From what i have seen here,if you cut the dead leafs and leave the leaf base,it will take much longer for them to fall on their own as there will be no weight pulling the leaf bases down or wind jerking the dead leafs around and causing them to dislodge and fall

Thank you very much in advance!

I recall reading about a guy trimming Washingtonia palms in S. California and he was killed when a mass of dead petty-coat leaves fell down on him, trapping him and he died.

[Kostas]

As my Washingtonia robusta is now trunking and due to it being next to the pathway,i am forced to cut the dead leafs to allow free pass now as the trunk is not tall enough to allow them to hang down,i would like to ask you what would be the best course of action from now on so that in some years i will have a clean,scar free trunk and a self cleaning palm i will never have to mess with again. Should i be periodically pulling on the oldest leaf bases and remove them as they come off rotten after some time or is there a certain age the Washingtonia will suddenly shed them all fast?

I will need to be cutting the dead leafs off till the palm has enough trunk to allow the dead leafs to hang vertically and thus not block the pathway. I plan to keep cutting the dead leafs till that height and then leave them be so that the palm has a chance to become self cleaning from the weight of the dead leafs and the wind,once it gets the small number of dead leafs a washingtonia always hold on it before shedding the oldest of them. Will this work or will the Washingtonia need to reach a certain height/size before becoming self cleaning? The Washingtonia robusta in my area are almost all self cleaning and tall but i dont know when they started getting self cleaning.

Any experience or observations on this?

Thank you very much in advance!

[smotrs]

I recall reading about a guy trimming Washingtonia palms in S. California and he was killed when a mass of dead petty-coat leaves fell down on him, trapping him and he died.

Here's 2 just since June of 2012.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/06/09/man-suffocated-while-trimming-palm-tree-in-glendora/

http://laist.com/2012/09/22/man_killed_while_trimming_palm_tree.php

Hopefully the OP doesn't let it get this bad that something like this could happen.

[smotrs]

Kostas, I had to look up the Washingtonia to see which one it was. Then I realized it's probably one of the most prolific versions in the So. California area. I'm actually wondering if the fronds actually do fall off when dead as I've seen a number of 30ft+ trees with fronds going from ground to crown. Maybe it's just the Robustas that are like that, I don't know. But after a few seasons, you get a huge skirt of dead fronds underneath the crown.

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your reply Shaun

Maybe its rainfall dependent then? In Pyrgos i have only seen very few W. robusta with a partial skirt of dead leafs while most are totally clean trunked and very tall. I am talking about 10m or much more in height trees. We get 1m of rain there annually...

But i was more wondering if there is a certain age the palms need to reach before the dead leafs start shedding or if i should expect them to be shed or be removable without much force and without any trunk damage right from the first feet of trunk.

Thank you very much in advance!

[DoomsDave]

Kostas:

If the leaves get in your way, just cut them. Washies are tough, it's going to take more than cutting a few leaves to set them back much.

As for removing the bases, gently take a box cutter, or pruning saw or any other suitable tool, and cut slowly till you can pull the base off. It's going to be a long while before they fall off, sometimes years and years. If the bases are a bother, just remove them. Washies have thick "bark" on their trunks, so unless you go totally wild, you won't hurt them even if you cut a bit too much.

[smotrs]

I imagine, once you have a couple layers of the dead fronds, if you gently pull on the lowest, they will probably either A. stay put or B. pop loose. I wouldn't try to force it as that's probably how you will end up causing damage.

But I don't believe they shed on their own, otherwise you wouldn't see a tree full of them. But I'm far from an expert. I'm only going by what I see here locally. Usually when they drop the fronds without human intervention, its usually a result of wind or rain that causes them to drop.

Edited June 24, 2013 by smotrs

[Kostas]

Thank you very much for your replies Dave and Shaun!

I am sure you are right Dave as your garden is awesome and very well grown! I just generally dont like cutting green leafs from my palms and other plants both for disease risks and for personal aesthetic reasons(i like the plants untrimmed even if they get in the way,looking like they are growing on their own there but with their needs well cared for! Sometimes i fail at the latter though due to only being able to visit my garden and check/adjust things only once a month,and the results are visible if something goes horribly wrong in my absence! ). In addition to the various disease risks from pruning tools(which disinfection could take care of),due to the presence of Rhynchophorus ferrugineus and Paysandisia archon here in Greece,its advisable not to trim any green leafs from spring to fall and only trim if necessary during the coldest part of winter,as these palm pests are strongly attracted from the open wounds and preferentially select the trimmed palms over the others. The green leafs are rarely an annoyance as on most palms including my Washingtonia as they look good and are soft and not a problem to touch while passing through. Plus,any that gets in the way too much,is easily tied away from the pathway from an adjacent object. My problem are(were) the dead leafs laying on the pathway which are more of a puncture hazard(their nice friendly petioles!) without helping in the removal of their leaf base as they arent pulling it away anyway. Once there is enough room for them to hang from the trunk vertically,they will no longer be a problem and i will be letting them be,and if make their leaf base detach on their own,they will be useful as well!

So far the lowermost leaf bases have become loose and i have been gradually removing them the past year, with a light pull but all these have been in touch with the soil,which surely facilitated the rotting of them from the winter rains. I dont know if that trend will continue,if yes,thats great but if not,it would be great if i knew what would be the age they shed them on their own,if there is such a particular age like Sabal supposedly have,as i wouldnt worry much and i would save myself the effort of pulling them from time to time and seeing they are not ready yet,getting some cuts in the way many times...

We got plenty of both rain and wind in Pyrgos,even hurricanes from time to time Last year some hurricanes formed around Pyrgos,took away metal sheet roofs and uprooted/broke trees and even though none passed from my garden,the strong prevailing winds brought half of my Grevillea robusta tree down,breaking one of the 2 main branches at the main fork,4m up the trunk.....I imagine these winds would easily dislodge the petticoat from Washingtonia...All tall ones are self cleaning,the partial petticoat exists on very few,at the lower third of it and is bordered below from old leaf bases of cut dead leafs. I bet that if someone attempted to gently clean them,the whole petticoat will come crashing down... I saw a total petticoat collapse,from the crown to the ground on a tall Washingtonia robusta in Athens in front of my eyes many years ago while in the school bus,and was very impressive,the sight,the sound,everything! I just hope i dont have to wait that long to see my Washingtonia with a clean trunk and self cleaning. Athens is much less rainy than Pyrgos.