Alligator hunting

[tank]

Moved to a new house about a year and a half ago and it is one lot over from one of the lakes that the state wildlife commission allows alligator hunting on. The season lasts three weeks, broken up into single weeks for each permit. Permits are "won" in a lottery system. We applied for the lake behind my house and ended up with a permit for the first week. Each permit allows you to take 2 alligators. Permit totals each year for a specific area or lake are determined by state wildlife officials through an annual population survey. These hunts supposed to keep the burgeoning alligator population in check. I really don't know how this is determined.

We ended up getting our quota over the 1st two days. The first one was 8'10" and the second was 10'3". The larger one took 2 hours to get in, compared to 30 min for the other. The larger alligator weighed about 350+lbs. Once they get over 8ft, they tend to grow more in girth than in length. Needless to say, the difference was night and day between the smaller and larger animal. We do this primarily for the meat, although we do keep the skins. We wouldn't sell any part of the alligator, even if we could, and right now there is no market for alligator hide in FL so you really couldn't sell it if you wanted to.

Just curious if anyone else on the board has done this.

[Mandrew968]

You want to know if any other Palmtalk members have ever killed animals, legally?

[The Silent Seed]

I can't imagine killing these beautiful animals - although I understand you do it for the meat - just as they kill deer, etc, up in the North - it's just something I personally disagree with. But, yes, I've killed. Mealybugs And THOSE are furry, to boot!

Question: How does this work, since they (alligators) are protected? That's like getting a permit to kill panda bears ?

[tank]

You want to know if any other Palmtalk members have ever killed animals, legally?

No, just alligators

[tank]

I can't imagine killing these beautiful animals - although I understand you do it for the meat - just as they kill deer, etc, up in the North - it's just something I personally disagree with. But, yes, I've killed. Mealybugs And THOSE are furry, to boot!

Question: How does this work, since they (alligators) are protected? That's like getting a permit to kill panda bears ?

Jude,

Do you keep amphibians and reptiles in tanks? Are you part of the trade in reptile and amphibian species? I would argue that this is much worse.

Also, alligators are no longer on the federal endangered or threatened list. They are protected in Florida, hence these very specific and controlled hunts.

[FRITO]

choot 'em choot 'em!

[DoomsDave]

Tank:

Hmm. Bet that lizard has a big old gizzard . . .

So, how do you cook alligator?

Sometimes you can get the meat of baby ones killed for their skins on farms for sale out here in Chinese markets. I once (unintentionally) made alligator flambe when some oil in the pan caught fire! (WHHOOOSH!)

Baby gator tastes like a mild cross between rabbit and catfish, without any fishy taste.

How does the meat from a big old gator like those taste?

Hmm. The record large alligator was more than 19 feet long . . . .

[DoomsDave]

I can't imagine killing these beautiful animals - although I understand you do it for the meat - just as they kill deer, etc, up in the North - it's just something I personally disagree with. But, yes, I've killed. Mealybugs And THOSE are furry, to boot!

Question: How does this work, since they (alligators) are protected? That's like getting a permit to kill panda bears ?

Yes, gators have their place in the wild. And, they are beautiful and fascinating.

Unfortunately, not much eats them, except for people and the odd shark. And, they eat people, if they can, as well as anything else they can get those powerful jaws around.

Alligators are no longer protected because they are EVERYWHERE in Florida, and I mean all over the place. I once withdrew some money from an ATM in Fort Meyers while a big gator sunned itself in the nearby parking lot about 30 feet away (I was in the car, thank heaven). You don't dare swim in large bodies of freshwater, except swimming pools, because of the danger of gator attack.

And, alligators are delicious!

And, unlike sharks, they can rebound fast from population decline because they reproduce almost as prodigiously as rabbits. Well, okay, THAT might be a bit of an exaggeration.

Alligators aren't the only carnivore that needs a little control. Are you getting coyotes in Massachusetts, yet? If not, then I'll bet soon. They're everywhere in California, and getting abundant in Ohio.

I'm glad to see that Florida is taking a sensible approach to this. Heaven only knows they need to do something about Ohio's ENORMOUS deer herd.

[pogobob]

What can we do about all these herds of STUPID HUMANS!?

[The Silent Seed]

As for being in the reptile / amphibian trade, no I'm not. Used to be, a long time ago, until it got way too commercial, and greedy, and environmentally unsound.

That said, I have a couple of adopted turtles that needed better homes.

Coyotes are definitely making a comeback here - but they are a natural predator here that were decimated by hunting - they are our equivalent of the wolf - they are a sign of a healthy ecosystem. Without them, the rabbits, squirrels, and deer populations explode, and that causes all kinds of problems.

Interesting thread!

[Alan_Tampa]

This is reference to Tank's reptiles in tanks comment and about alligators.

I was in the reptile trade for about 15 years. I bred and kept numerous and sundry reptiles. Responsible keepers are just like responsible nurserymen, they provide good care for the stock. Idiots are idiots no matter what. I get a little defensive about the reptile biz when people deride keeping said animals in "aquariums" (aquariums are for fish)or whatnot. Good keepers and breeders know what the animals need (it ain't much, usually)and act to provide. Idiots don't and should only keep rocks.

As for the alligators, sustainable harvest is the only way to go. What I find funny is the fear they invoke, despite that alligator "attacks" (a stupid way to describe it really, they are just doing what they do) are rather few, especially given that there are many people and alligatos competing for the same space. I always thought it would be a cool way to go anyway, that and death by giant shark.

If you want to talk about imported wild animals, think about this: it is either money for food or food. Importers/exporters are dependent on the well being of any animals in which they deal. To act otherwise is to go out of business. And better to weed out the aforementioned idiots. I recieved and packed animals coming from and going to places all over and a shipment with any problems was rare. Also, US Fish and Wildlife will fine you faster than you can say 'boogers' for international shipments that aren't up to snuff.

Anyway, just being defensive as people often go on about captive wildlife. Usually from a perspective spawned by PETA or some such similiar group.

Alan

[Palmə häl′ik]

mmmm... tastey nuggets of love.

I've never been on a 'legal' hunt... But I've got some fishin' stories to tell...

All I know is that the four to six footers are the ones you want

Back in da day it was nothin' to have a nest of gator hatchlings in a 50gal aquarium for a few months...

They chirp like birds...

If you got caught with one these days, your done.

Well done Tank. Thinnin' the herd is needed these days...

I hear they're windin' up on peoples back porches and whatnot down South...

~Ray.

[The Silent Seed]

Agreed about the "hysteria" behind "gator attacks" - They are opportunistic feeders - if an arm is presented to them, what do you expect? They don't go hunting after people, neither do sharks.

Alan - great point about the "aquarium" concept - People like us who have kept, or keep, animals, responsible keepers, anyway, know what is best for the animal. And, think about it - many of us put plants in a POT. It's the same concept really. And ironically, the requirements are about the same

[DoomsDave]

So, Tank, how did you cook those big gators?

I'm always looking for new recipes -- for palm society potlucks!

[Palmə häl′ik]

fried dave. anything from water tastes good fried.

that's how we roll down south. kill it, and fry it.

[Palmə häl′ik]

all you is the tail btw

the tail and the cheeks.

the two cheeks would be the best chunks of meat on the whole thing.

[tank]

Yes,

Cheeks, tail and haunches.

http://www.wildliferecipes.net/game_recipes/Exotic_wild_game_recipes/Alligator_recipes/index.asp

I prefer it grilled or broiled. Better if well tenderized. Not everyone is keen on the texture.

Meat is kinda like a cross with steak and chicken breast, with the texture of conch.

[Pedro 65]

CRIKEY, cowboys culln gators,. The cost of human encroachment, if folks have a prolems with these ancient creatures , dont buy realestate there.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Pedro 65

[Stevetoad]

CRIKEY, cowboys culln gators,. The cost of human encroachment, if folks have a prolems with these ancient creatures , dont buy realestate there.

what about rats??? people kill them (not for food) to keep there populations down. in many cases its 100% needed. i see no problem with culling animals to keep the ecosystem balanced.

[peachy]

They are not endangered and if they are killed for skins and food then I dont have a problem with it. Crocs here were hunted for sport to the point of extinction and now are protected, although with the numbers rapidly building they may have to come up with some way of culling them in the wild. Atm they move problem crocs to croc farms where they are bred commercially. I dont agree with hunting animals for sport. It would only be sport if they had rifles too. Will we see Tank in the next series of Swamp People ?

Peachy

[Pedro 65]

CRIKEY, cowboys culln gators,. The cost of human encroachment, if folks have a prolems with these ancient creatures , dont buy realestate there.

what about rats??? people kill them (not for food) to keep there populations down. in many cases its 100% needed. i see no problem with culling animals to keep the ecosystem balanced.

What do killing vermin rats have to do with alligators CRIKEY, if Tha Croc Hunter was still around, he'd have ya guts for gators

[The Silent Seed]

Rats are a human-introduced animal, and in their "new" environment, they proliferate, because we feed them so well, and give them plenty of places to live.

[Stevetoad]

Rats are native in many areas, we didn't make them in a lab and release them. There a native pest in my area just like gophers. When any animals population gets to large in must be controlled. Just like deer. Just because one animal looks cool doesn't mean we should let it's population explode. Not to mention the benefits a species gets from being a game animal. Game animals a very well regulated and protected by the very people who hunt them. Large mouth bass are a great example of how well this works.

[Palm crazy]

I love my old kitty (bobcat) more than anything. I must be doing something right since he's 18 years old and they only live on average 2-4 years in the wild in my state, sad.

He's totally a part of the family and loves people so much its scary, his range of emotions is amazing

Edited August 20, 2011 by Palm crazy

[edbrown_III]

This is reference to Tank's reptiles in tanks comment and about alligators.

I was in the reptile trade for about 15 years. I bred and kept numerous and sundry reptiles. Responsible keepers are just like responsible nurserymen, they provide good care for the stock. Idiots are idiots no matter what. I get a little defensive about the reptile biz when people deride keeping said animals in "aquariums" (aquariums are for fish)or whatnot. Good keepers and breeders know what the animals need (it ain't much, usually)and act to provide. Idiots don't and should only keep rocks.

As for the alligators, sustainable harvest is the only way to go. What I find funny is the fear they invoke, despite that alligator "attacks" (a stupid way to describe it really, they are just doing what they do) are rather few, especially given that there are many people and alligatos competing for the same space. I always thought it would be a cool way to go anyway, that and death by giant shark.

If you want to talk about imported wild animals, think about this: it is either money for food or food. Importers/exporters are dependent on the well being of any animals in which they deal. To act otherwise is to go out of business. And better to weed out the aforementioned idiots. I recieved and packed animals coming from and going to places all over and a shipment with any problems was rare. Also, US Fish and Wildlife will fine you faster than you can say 'boogers' for international shipments that aren't up to snuff.

Anyway, just being defensive as people often go on about captive wildlife. Usually from a perspective spawned by PETA or some such similiar group.

Alan

Amen

Brother, its regulated --- why would you want to live in Florida anyway? I really grow roses and keep huskie?

No palms and reptiles !

Best regards

Ed

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Rats are a human-introduced animal, and in their "new" environment, they proliferate, because we feed them so well, and give them plenty of places to live.

Ummmm.....no.

Using common language usage, the statement contains the implication that rats have been introduced BY humans, and an implied understanding of the statement would be that it was intentional.......'introduced' has a strong subjective towards intent.

Secondly, the statement "because we feed them so well" also implies an action of direct intent.

And, of course this is not true....they are a successful animal because they have taken advantage of human activity to increase their range and thus expand their numbers.

No offense intended, i assume this is what you intended to convey.

Rusty

BTW which has nothing to do with Tank's post ...my apology, remedied below

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Yes,

Cheeks, tail and haunches.

http://www.wildliferecipes.net/game_recipes/Exotic_wild_game_recipes/Alligator_recipes/index.asp

I prefer it grilled or broiled. Better if well tenderized. Not everyone is keen on the texture.

Meat is kinda like a cross with steak and chicken breast, with the texture of conch.

It has been on my 'Bucket List' to try gator...got to get that done.

[Jeff Searle]

What can we do about all these herds of STUPID HUMANS!?

The lottery? Get yer done....

[DoomsDave]

I love my old kitty (bobcat) more than anything. I must be doing something right since he's 18 years old and they only live on average 2-4 years in the wild in my state, sad.

He's totally a part of the family and loves people so much its scary, his range of emotions is amazing

Aw!

What a lovely kitty cat in the first picture!

Bobcats, are usually, well, let's just say antisocial in most contexts.

Yours looks so sweet.

Pictures of you petting him?

[Palm crazy]

Sorry Dave all my cute photos were taken when my computer was rip off two years ago, 18 years of photos gone. And there were tons of cute one, so I guest I'll have to make some new ones.

He's very tame and loving. He's the big baby of the family. He pretty much gets his way most of the time, Kooger is his name.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Palm crazy

[Takil-Explorer]

Well some tasty alligator meat with nice palmhearts, and a good glas of white wine! I can live with that!

Alexander

[palmislandRandy]

Here kitty, kitty.............Yikes

[DoomsDave]

Dang, Palmcrazy, that is one helluva cat!

Three times the size of the average house cat. Is Kooger anatomically intact?

Maybe start a new thread with his pix, so we don't hijack this one . . . .

[Pedro 65]

CRIKEY

[tank]

Alan,

I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful reply. Unfortunately we will have to agree to disagree. I'll leave it at that.

Had some of the meat this weekend. Pan seared with lemon pepper and butter. Very good!

Now I have to learn how to tan the hides. Seems pretty straight forward.

[tank]

Later this week we'll have scallops and gator tail.

Caught the scallops Sunday.

[Palm crazy]

Thanks Dave I will take some more pics later this month and post them on a new posting, for sure in Sept. He's still has a far amount of winter coat on so I need to get him groomed before his big photo shot.

Don't want to take away anymore from Tanks post.

Later!

[Kathryn]

Several of my friends hunt alligator - not their day job though. I've never been hunting with them but I have received some meat over the years. The Alligator Festival in Luling, Louisiana (just a few miles from my house) takes place in late September. That's when I get my fill of fried alligator, alligator burgers and alligator sauce piquant.

[amazondk]

We don´t have any alligators around here. But, there are millions of caimans, the largest being the black caiman which gets up to about 20 feet in length. Since the hunting of Caimans was made illegal the populations have boomed and are now hurting the fish production in some areas. So, in certain areas of Amazonia harvesting caimans is now being regulated and permitted. But, since the area is so large and the control of the area so poor those who want to kill one really have no problem doing so. The state of Para which is east of Amazonas is famous for eating caimans, called jacarei here. There are a lot of jokes about this. Every once in while a person gets taken by a caiman, but it is not too frequent. They are no where as dangerous as the crocs in Australia. I have spent a few pleasant nights out on the water with spot lights finding them. But, have never harvested one. I used to go fishing with a guide that was a former caiman hunter. He could call them right in by emitting a call like a caiman.

dk