Dypsis sp. 215 / Dypsis heteromorpha

[MattyB]

The infamous Watty O' Diamond has recently documented the notorious Dypsis sp. 215 beautifully grown in Daryl's garden. Some have speculated that this D. sp. 215 is actually Dypsis heteromorpha. So here's some pics so we can compare. Please feel free to add your own pics to this discussion.

The following pics are of Daryl's D. sp. 215 taken by Wal.

I'm having trouble getting them to show up full size so here's Wal's original thread with the D. sp. 215 pics at the end.

Down at Daryl's thread

[MattyB]

And here's some pics of two of my Dypsis heteromorpha.

[MattyB]

At first I doubted that my Dypsis heteromorpha was one in the same as Daryl's D. sp. 215, but the older it gets, the more fuzz it shows. Also, the striation lines on the crownshaft are pretty distinct. It has a tristichous arrangement, heavy ramenta near the petiole, it's densley suckering....I think they are the same palm now. I can only hope that someday mine will have as much red fuzz as Daryl's. One thing I've noticed is that the red fuzz rubs off very easily, similar to a triangle palm.

[Mandrew968]

After listening to Jeff Marcus on the genus Dypsis, It seems even more difficult to distinguish species as most of these Dypsis in question, morph. Maybe when these palms have all been grown to adulthood, and someone makes note of their strange growth patterns, will we be more certain of exactly what we are growing. Dypsis seems to be a taxonomic can of worms--there's a decent chance the two palms, in question are one in the same, but I couldn't tell you! Good luck, Matty; either way, they both look like winners!

[pogobob]

That's got to be one of the best palms ever! Could very well be a hybrid, I see decaryi, leptochielos, and one of the clumpers like barronii or cabadae. Anyone else want to speculate?

[MattyB]

Bob, that second one pictured is the one I got from you. It's just about to show some trunk on the largest stem.

[MattyB]

That's got to be one of the best palms ever! Could very well be a hybrid, I see decaryi, leptochielos, and one of the clumpers like barronii or cabadae. Anyone else want to speculate?

I've thought about that too Bob. I've ruled out Dypsis leptocheilos because the red fuzz is not the same as the fur on D. leptocheilos. So that leaves D. decaryi, which has a very similar red fuzz. But then that would need to be crossed w/ a clumper. What if a Dypsis leptocheilos x decaryi was hybridized with a Dypsis lutescens? Now were getting somewhere. I wonder what the story is on Daryl's and what the story is on the origins of the most recent ones in cultivation here. I got 2 of mine from Jerry Andersen but I've seen them at Jungle Music also (labled as D. onilahensis oddly enough). Who distributed the seeds? Did they come from habitat or some botanical garden where a hybrid would be more likely?

[pogobob]

Whaaat! I want it back right now! Obviously I didn't know what it was huh. I hope it sets seed for you, and I will be asking you for some! Nice palm Matt! Dammit

[palmcurry]

I hope your right Matt. After seeing the pics of your palms it seems to me they probably are the same or something in the ballpark. I have 6 in the ground but they are not as far along as yours. I started to think my D.hets are some thing else because during acclimation they've lost the fuzz and color. Dan Andersen assured me it would come back after acclimation(JDA palms where I got them)

One thing I can say is that these D.heteromorphas are way slower than the 7 baroniis I have in the ground. I wonder what the growth rate of Daryls 215 is?

Jerry....if your out there....please post a pic of yours in Hawaii and update us!!

[Hilo Jason]

I have 2 of these. One I bought as a 1 gallon and planted it about a year and a half ago. It had almost no fuzz, but I checked yesterday and it looks like it's finally developing some. It seems to have rooted in well and it's growing nicely. Not a rocket ship, but not slow either. It's actually quicker than my baronii, which is interesting since Vince mentioned the opposite above.

I just picked up another from JD Andersen that was in their sun lot in a 15 gallon. It's a small plant, just planted in a large pot. Probably a large 1 gallon size plant. It has a lot of fuzz on it, so that's why I picked it up. I actually plan on planting that out today. It will go in full sun.

I'll try to post a couple of pictures later.

[amazon exotics]

What a beautiful palm !! I believe that D. Heteromorpha is the "215". Jeff Searle has some larger sized Heteromorpha that are identical (IMO) to the "215". Maybe I'm CRAZY !! Maybe Jeff will will voice his opinion.

[MattyB]

I think Aaron (bags) has one that is jamming! Mine are picking up speed now that they have been in the ground for 3 years. They were planted as very small 1 gallons, given 30% shade cloth for a year, and then they took full inland sun just fine, even as small palms. The one I got from Pogobob suffered from some nutrient deficiency for a while. I wish I could blame Bob but it happened on my watch. But after a year it started taking up the fertilizer, greened up, and now it's really starting to extend upwards with each new leaf, which exposes that fuzzy crownshaftal nether regions.

[richnorm]

215 looks like "heteromorpha" to me, especially if you look at younger pictures of Daryl's. The question for me is whether heteromorpha is in cultivation at all. The one under this name in circulation is certainly adaptable to cool conditions but seems to need more heat to grow than other high altitude Dypsis. Seems to be too much homogeneity to be a hybrid plus leptocheilos will not grow well here. Looks like Daryl's will flower and fruit soon and we may have a new species.

[Gtlevine]

I think yours is Dypsis 315?

[jdapalms]

Here are a few pictures of my Dypsis heteromorpha in Hawaii, one of them is beginning to flower so we may be propagating these in the near future. This palm does well in Southern Calif. although a little on the slow side, also some seem to have more fuzz than others.

[Darold Petty]

Hi Jerry, thanks for these photos. I just purchased two plants from Dan last Saturday. Is my assumption correct that this palm suckers only sparsely? If so, I may plant the two very close together.

[Walter John]

Actually, lots of similarities in those leaflets, maybe it's heteromorpha plus rivularis or sp.Florenciae. 215 has way more on the furry red, and clumps crazy, maybe I'll get some close up pics soon or Daryl will.

[Daryl]

Wow, I've been busy for the last few days and haven't had time for Palmtalk, but it is good to see this subject come up again. There is an old thread on this very same subject...Here that covers a lot of the questions asked above.

I am 99% convinced that the plants sold in California and Hawaii are the same as sp. 215. The appearance is very similar. 215 is fuzzier and more colourful, but this may just be a variation.

However, the other 1% says that these may be two similar palms that just exhibit very similar traits. I have other Dypsis that have the same type of leaf, but different stems and colour. I mean, who knows with Dypsis???

I originally got the seed from this back in (I think) 1998 or 99. I planted it in 2003, so it is 12 or 13 years old and has been in the ground for 8 years. It is quite a fast grower, maybe a little slower than D.lutescens. It suckers like crazy, and has 20 + stems.

Apparently the seed was collected in the wild, and the photo of the parent plant is in the other thread. My plant has produced three inflorescenses on two stems, but nothing has eventuated so far, unfortunately. The largest stem has about 8ft of wood, but is obscured by the foliage of all the other plants around it. If it was out in the open is might have a better chance at getting pollinated.

Here is a close up showing the red fur...

regards,

Daryl

[richnorm]

heteromorpha seeds are deeply ruminate...... Lack of bifid leaves on young stems is surely a bit of a giveaway though? Mine pup like crazy.

[Bags]

I know we have talked about this a few times and for me there is little doubt these two are the same palm. Daryl just happens to have one of the nicest around. Here are some pics I posted from last year.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25851&st=0&p=427279&hl=heteromorpha&fromsearch=1&#entry427279

This is turning out to be a great dypsis. It is one of the fastest palms in my yard, putting out about 5 leaves a year and always looks good. I'll post some updated pics when my wife gets home with our laptop.

[MattyB]

Its totally weird that jerry's aren't suckering but mine are profusely. I thought these were from the same batch.

[Walter John]

Its totally weird that jerry's aren't suckering but mine are profusely. I thought these were from the same batch.

Matty, these comments totally match the expression on your avatar....

sorry....

you coming to Thailand ?

sorry...

[MattyB]

Thailand. I'd love to go. Don't think I can swing it though. Too expensive for my budget.

[Mandrew968]

Thailand. I'd love to go. Don't think I can swing it though. Too expensive for my budget.

I second that...

[Bags]

Here are some updated picks from a few days ago.

[Bags]

In my other thread I said that my palm did not seam to be tristichous. I should add that I was wrong, it is tristichous but is leaning so the leaves fall to the side giving it a little less uniform look.

[MattyB]

Yeah baby! Nice palm Aaron! Thanks for the pic.

[Darold Petty]

Recently I purchased two plants from JD Andersen nursery. For various reasons I removed all the original potting medium. The plants have a lot of large, coarse roots compared to the amount of top growth. The plants were grown in a cylindrical plastic pot 24cm diameter and 30cm tall. (5 gallon for my fellow 'murkins)

This tells me that the species should be ground planted at a smaller size than one might expect.

[MattyB]

Good observation Darold. Now that you mention it, I remember when I planted mine as small 1 gallons I saw this as well. They had more fatty roots than you'd expect for such a small plant. Similar to what you'd see in Dypsis onilahensis. When I was digging up some Spindle Palms from the adjacent areas found many roots from the Dypsis heteromorpha. I was surprised considering they aren't that big yet.

[MattyB]

Some updated pics of a few of my D. heteromorpha

[MattyB]

And this one I picked out because even as a small plant it had a wider leaflet that seemed more droopy, sort of like a weeping onilahensis. So far it's holding this unique trait. This one is slower than the others I have. I wonder if it'll turn out a little different?

[joe_OC]

Its totally weird that jerry's aren't suckering but mine are profusely. I thought these were from the same batch.

I have from Jerry and it has a few suckers on it...

[richnorm]

How long have those been in-ground Matty? Nicely grown, mine has a bit of brown tipping but has been in 12 months. I'm wondering if it's lack of drainage.

cheers

Richard

[MattyB]

I don't know why I said that Jerry's weren't suckering because you can see clearly in is photos that they are.

Richard,

Mine have been in the ground about 4 years now, from small 1 gallons. Here they are, the two on the right, just before I planted them in November of '07. They were in 1 gallons but I set them in larger pots with a little dirt in the bottom because they had roots coming out of the drain holes that I didn't want to air prune. Notice the D. heteromorpha on the left. That's the one that was more compact with droopier leaflets than all the rest, and they were growing in the same spot in the greenhouse, with the same light conditions.

The 3 spindles on the left are now huge, with a few rings of clear trunk now, even after a dig and transplant last summer.

[Hilo Jason]

Hey Matty, I thought I would post a picture of my Heteromorpha for you to see. This was a 1 gallon from JD Andersen, planted in April 2010. Yours has more of the red fuzz, but I have noticed mine developing a bit more as time goes on. When I planted it I think it was 1 plant with 1 sucker just starting to form. there are now 4 suckers.

I have another that I bought at JD Andersen this past summer that had a lot of fuzz on it, so it will be interesting to see how the 2 of them develop and grow.

[MattyB]

I thought I'd update the D. heteromorpha pics. Now that one of mine is trunking I'm convinced that it's the same as Daryl's. That wide leaf base scar and distinct sea foam green trunk is consistent. His still wins the fuzz contest, but mine are getting more and more fuzzy as they get larger.

Here's plant #1

[MattyB]

...and the floppy one

[quaman58]

Great pics as always Matt. I need to check & compare with next door neighbor Terry. He has a just trunking heteromorpha he got a couple years back from Mr. Laywer. Great look for a smallish Dypsis.

[MattyB]

update Nov. 2012

Dypsis 215 and D. heteromorpha are one in the same in my opinion.

[MattyB]