2 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I know Hobart has warmer winters than here but is it the cool winters that are the determining factor that Chambeyronia don't grow there or cool summers. The summers in Hobart are cooler than here in London. I averaged 22c for July and August this summer with a average high over 27c for both months. We get the hot dry air from southern Europe in the summer in the southeast and combined with the urban heat island the nights have been very warm here.  I think UK palms said there is a Chambeyronia macrocarpa growing unprotected on the Isle of Wight and a beccariophoenix alfredii in London.  Syagrus romanzoffianana, archontophoenix and howea forsteriana are all fine here more palms need to be tested here.

S romanzoffiana, A cunninghamiana and H forsteriana all thrive in Hobart without issue. I’d really be surprised if there are any palms that would grow in London but not Hobart. The difference in summer average is negligible but winters are significantly warmer. You’re right that summer warmth plays a role, but I don’t see how London could provide enough year round warmth for the common New Cal species to sustain life (even disregarding the occasionally low temp which would spell doom). Honestly most growers struggle with the New Cals here in Melbourne, and you’ll still get some people saying they don’t grow here. And we are much warmer all year round. 
 

I’d like to see evidence of Chambeyronia on Isle of Wight. If online climate averages are accurate, I can’t see how it would be possible. The average night in winter would slowly damage them. 

23 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

S romanzoffiana, A cunninghamiana and H forsteriana all thrive in Hobart without issue. I’d really be surprised if there are any palms that would grow in London but not Hobart. The difference in summer average is negligible but winters are significantly warmer. You’re right that summer warmth plays a role, but I don’t see how London could provide enough year round warmth for the common New Cal species to sustain life (even disregarding the occasionally low temp which would spell doom). Honestly most growers struggle with the New Cals here in Melbourne, and you’ll still get some people saying they don’t grow here. And we are much warmer all year round. 
 

I’d like to see evidence of Chambeyronia on Isle of Wight. If online climate averages are accurate, I can’t see how it would be possible. The average night in winter would slowly damage them. 

I don't know about the Isle of Wight but here the average winter low is slightly over 5c for Jan and Feb. The climate averages are pretty outdated and wrong for London but I still agree that Chambeyronia is quite a push to grow here. I'd place them under canopy in the warmest part of the garden, that spot is probably a 10a . You would have to ask @UK_Palmsfor more info about the Chambeyronia growing on the Isle of Wight.  The average high last winter here was 10c in Dec, over 9c in Jan and over 11c in February hope that helps.  As long as we don't get any record breaking cold winter temperatures, on a normal year the coldest night of the year isn't my concern it's the long cool winters.

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by Foxpalms

@tim_brissy_13 My A.alexandrae was left out in a pot last winter and took hardly any damage only damage it has on it now is sunburn  on the older leaves.  From what I've read Chambeyronia macrocarpa is  hardier than A.alexandrae but I could be wrong. There is a good sized archontophoenix alexandrae at the tresco abbey gardens.

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by Foxpalms

4 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

What's the lowest temperature the Hedyscepe has seen, I'm thinking of trying one. Do you have any other suggestions for 9b palms to try other than the obvious ones. Any new caledonian palms that can tolerate the cool winters  and light frosts. Which Chrysalidocarpus palms tolerate the most cool weather? @Jamil HabibPVT should do well for you there are lots in colder parts of the UK that are fine.

My Hedyscepe have seen -2.5C but were under canopy with little to no damage after a few days. They will mottle up initially. Marginally more cold tolerant than a Howea. 

9 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

My Hedyscepe have seen -2.5C but were under canopy with little to no damage after a few days. They will mottle up initially. Marginally more cold tolerant than a Howea. 

Nice to know they are hardier than howea as that's fine here. If I plant one it would definitely be under canopy.

10 hours ago, Tyrone said:

They originally were all in one community pot and I was reluctant to seperate them due to them not liking root disturbance. But I up ended the pot into the water and gently teased them apart slowly. They were just strap leaved at that time in jan 2015. After planting the one with the most roots did best, the other two initially struggled and one put a new leaf out the side. I thought I would lose them all but I didn’t lose any. The pictures below are from 2 years later in jan 2017.

@Tyrone Thank for sharing and WOW, I am truly astounded at the growth rate, to go from mere seedlings to striking palm in 4 years is surprise. With your almost perfect climate from them I think mine will take double the time as your growing season each year is probably 50% longer than mine.  Also it shows a community pot of palms can result in spectacular outcomes with a bit of care and critical thinking.  Look forward to seeing their growth over the next few years. Do you grow Beccariophoenix alfiedii (that's my second fav palm)? 

9 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

What's the lowest temperature the Hedyscepe has seen, I'm thinking of trying one. Do you have any other suggestions for 9b palms to try other than the obvious ones. Any new caledonian palms that can tolerate the cool winters  and light frosts. Which Chrysalidocarpus palms tolerate the most cool weather? @Jamil HabibPVT should do well for you there are lots in colder parts of the UK that are fine.

@FoxpalmsThanks, I guess if I can keep Queens healthy than there is every chance that Parajubaea species will be fine. What's the riskiest zone pushing you are planning? I have a 7ft Howea that I keep outside all year, might also try that with a triple King Palm this winter to see how it fares. Also hoping to do the same with R. Sapida and Beccariophoenix Alfiedii when they are too large for indoors.  Where in London are you based? Do you have any pics of your palms to share?

7 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

S romanzoffiana, A cunninghamiana and H forsteriana all thrive in Hobart without issue. I’d really be surprised if there are any palms that would grow in London but not Hobart. The difference in summer average is negligible but winters are significantly warmer. You’re right that summer warmth plays a role, but I don’t see how London could provide enough year round warmth for the common New Cal species to sustain life (even disregarding the occasionally low temp which would spell doom). Honestly most growers struggle with the New Cals here in Melbourne, and you’ll still get some people saying they don’t grow here. And we are much warmer all year round. 
 

I’d like to see evidence of Chambeyronia on Isle of Wight. If online climate averages are accurate, I can’t see how it would be possible. The average night in winter would slowly damage them. 

If it isn’t Chambeyronia, it is another palm that pushes out red fronds. It’s right near the coast and is located in a private garden halfway between Ventnor and Shanklin on the Isle of Wight. Most winters probably don’t go below 0C there and the coldest they would have had during Feb 2018 freeze was about -1C or -2C. I don’t know whether it has received any protection, but it has been planted out for a few years now. I saw a photo of it posted on social media a while back. 

Also remember that London has 30 footer Norfolk Island Pines now too, which are supposed to be zone 10 USDA and up. So at 51N in the cooler UK that would probably translate to zone 10b-11a, in theory. So parts of central London have to be 10a for sure, at least. Are Norfolk Island pines hardier than Chambeyronia? I know New Caledonia is further north than Norfolk Island, but I couldn’t imagine there being a big difference. Chambeyronia in the right microclimate, close to a building, with some overhead cover too, should be okay in central and possibly east London.

5 hours ago, Jamil Habib said:

@Tyrone Thank for sharing and WOW, I am truly astounded at the growth rate, to go from mere seedlings to striking palm in 4 years is surprise. With your almost perfect climate from them I think mine will take double the time as your growing season each year is probably 50% longer than mine.  Also it shows a community pot of palms can result in spectacular outcomes with a bit of care and critical thinking.  Look forward to seeing their growth over the next few years. Do you grow Beccariophoenix alfiedii (that's my second fav palm)? 

Yes, I’ve got quite a few Beccariophoenix alfredii growing here. They are slower than my Parajubaea and a little bit affected by the cold wet events compared to Parajubaea. They are a success here.

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

If it isn’t Chambeyronia, it is another palm that pushes out red fronds. It’s right near the coast and is located in a private garden halfway between Ventnor and Shanklin on the Isle of Wight. Most winters probably don’t go below 0C there and the coldest they would have had during Feb 2018 freeze was about -1C or -2C. I don’t know whether it has received any protection, but it has been planted out for a few years now. I saw a photo of it posted on social media a while back. 

Also remember that London has 30 footer Norfolk Island Pines now too, which are supposed to be zone 10 USDA and up. So at 51N in the cooler UK that would probably translate to zone 10b-11a, in theory. So parts of central London have to be 10a for sure, at least. Are Norfolk Island pines hardier than Chambeyronia? I know New Caledonia is further north than Norfolk Island, but I couldn’t imagine there being a big difference. Chambeyronia in the right microclimate, close to a building, with some overhead cover too, should be okay in central and possibly east London.

Norfolk Island pines will take lots of cold weather. I reckon they are 9A or even lower.  I’ve never seen one damaged by cold here ever. They would obviously have a limit, but zone 10 isn’t it. 

7 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Norfolk Island pines will take lots of cold weather. I reckon they are 9A or even lower.  I’ve never seen one damaged by cold here ever. They would obviously have a limit, but zone 10 isn’t it. 

Are there any examples of Norfolk Island pines growing outside of zone 10? London is the only exception, although those ones are growing in 9b-10a parts of London anyway. I don’t really know of any NIP’s growing outside of the Scilly Isles and the Mediterranean in Europe. In the USA they won’t grow long term in northern Florida even. I’m pretty sure ones near Daytona Beach and Orlando got wiped out even about a decade ago and that’s at 28N vs 51N for London. They can certainly take prolonged cold duration better than extreme cold. Im not sure what the furthest north Norfolk Island Pine is on the west coast of America. Probably Northern California or southern Oregon?

Here, on the north coast of Spain, I have been growing in the ground for over 9 years now , some palms from New Caledonia: Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Cyphophoenix nucele and elegans (I think I killed it last week with my brushcutter. It was still very tiny ), and Kentiopsis oliviformis. I grew Oraniopsis apendiculata and others, but died a few years ago and I think it wasn´t because of cold.

Also from Lord Howe Island: Howeas forsteriana and belmoreana, and Hedyscepe  too.

I also have in the ground Beccariophoenix alffredii, and some Dypsis: Decipiens, Ambositrae and Lutescens (this one very well protected because is the most fragile). Now I´ve got Baronii in a pot which I plan to plant next year.

Some Pritchardias, such as Hillebrandii, Arecina, Minor, Munroi and Martii. I killed Remota a few years ago because it was under a drain.

The only Parajubaea I haven´t been able to grow has been Sunkha. I´ve tried it three times but no luck. Cocoides (over one meter of trunk), Torralyii, Torralyii torralyii, and Torralyii microcarpa, grow very well here.

I also have 7 species of Archontophoenix. Being Cunninghamiana and a hybrid between cunninghamiana and Alexandrae the oldest with 17 years in the ground. The second one set seeds last year and the first one is doing it this year. The others have been in the ground for 9 years now. I tried var, Beatrice several times but no luck either.

My climate is very similar to the one in Hobart and to the south coast of England and London.

5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Are there any examples of Norfolk Island pines growing outside of zone 10? London is the only exception, although those ones are growing in 9b-10a parts of London anyway. I don’t really know of any NIP’s growing outside of the Scilly Isles and the Mediterranean in Europe. In the USA they won’t grow long term in northern Florida even. I’m pretty sure ones near Daytona Beach and Orlando got wiped out even about a decade ago and that’s at 28N vs 51N for London. They can certainly take prolonged cold duration better than extreme cold. Im not sure what the furthest north Norfolk Island Pine is on the west coast of America. Probably Northern California or southern Oregon?

This one is in a 9B zone.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4188903,-2.813509,3a,90y,70.06h,106.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqS3u1t155DciMIr_B1T3Jg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And this one in a 9A zone.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3649251,-1.7689611,3a,44.1y,81.55h,108.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGkSeWnbXOfvsrTaDsWy_dw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

All the following ones are in 10A zones.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4029313,-3.4298813,3a,48.3y,270.98h,107.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sZ6Mq__4edN60A7S1QcFdbA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DZ6Mq__4edN60A7S1QcFdbA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D186.0864%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3966517,-3.4466309,3a,75y,309.36h,108.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stNhiYq24_tGwROqxgqHIwQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4646494,-5.0689784,3a,75y,28.37h,99.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9XfVviqDJ1-SDhnoMyLxcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Nowadays they are being planted by the dozens all along the coast.

@Jamil HabibI will take some photos when I get home. I'd like to try Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Hedyscepe, archontophoenix purperea, archontophoenix maxima, syagrus schizophylla, jubeaopsis caffra and Howea belmoreana. If those work out I'd consider trying in the warmest spot Cyphophoenix elgans, chambeyronia oliviformis, Cyphophoenix nucele and Chambeyronia lepidota. I'm a high 9b and you're probably on the higher end of 9a the majority of palms I listed except maybe Beccariophoenix alfredii and Chambeyronia macrocarpa probably won't be able to survive where you are without lots of protection since even here it's a push.  Is the archontophoenix tripple archontophoenix Alexandrae or cunninghamiana? I would only plant  cunninghamiana and not the Illawarra variety for where you are under canopy. Do you have a south east section of the garden where have room to plant large evergreen canopy trees such as eucalyptus as that's what I would do? Might also benefit from a small pond for a bit of extra warmth and make it  under the canopy too to release some extra warmth at night, which gets trapped under the tree canopy rather than going up into space on a clear radiation freeze night and they look nice.  That's where I would plant the tender palms (archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Beccariophoenix alfredii, howea forsteriana and Rhopalostylis sapida if I was you in that one area and if it ever gets below -3c you could always protect them if you want. @gurugu Have you tried any of the Ravenea genus? ravenea xerophila and ravenea glauca. How fast does Chrysalidocarpus onilahensis typically grow mine only makes a few leaves per year but I've heard they are slow.

 

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by Foxpalms

7 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Are there any examples of Norfolk Island pines growing outside of zone 10? London is the only exception, although those ones are growing in 9b-10a parts of London anyway. I don’t really know of any NIP’s growing outside of the Scilly Isles and the Mediterranean in Europe. In the USA they won’t grow long term in northern Florida even. I’m pretty sure ones near Daytona Beach and Orlando got wiped out even about a decade ago and that’s at 28N vs 51N for London. They can certainly take prolonged cold duration better than extreme cold. Im not sure what the furthest north Norfolk Island Pine is on the west coast of America. Probably Northern California or southern Oregon?

They’re grown right through into inland southern Australia, except for Alpine areas and maybe Canberra. They’re not that unusual to see here. I’d say they are a very solid zone 9 species. Ive never seen one cold damaged before. I’m suspecting maybe a minus 4 or 5C maybe the limit as we’ve never seen that here. 

7 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

They’re grown right through into inland southern Australia, except for Alpine areas and maybe Canberra. They’re not that unusual to see here. I’d say they are a very solid zone 9 species. Ive never seen one cold damaged before. I’m suspecting maybe a minus 4 or 5C maybe the limit as we’ve never seen that here. 

Yeah agree Tyrone. I’ve seen them in some very chilly areas where they used as street plants and left to their own devices. Not even comparable to Chambeyronia. In 2017 here, some suburbs got down to about -2C or -3C. All exposed Norfolk Island Pines were undamaged while Chambeys in good microclimates and even under canopy were damaged. 

2 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Yeah agree Tyrone. I’ve seen them in some very chilly areas where they used as street plants and left to their own devices. Not even comparable to Chambeyronia. In 2017 here, some suburbs got down to about -2C or -3C. All exposed Norfolk Island Pines were undamaged while Chambeys in good microclimates and even under canopy were damaged. 

Yes agree.  Chambeyronia are many times more cold sensitive than a Norfolk Island Pine. I’ve got both here and exposed Chambeyronia leaves (not under canopy) burn at minus 2.5C. My Norfolk Island Pine has looked the same despite everything the climate throws at it. Super tough. 

I think there's a small norfolk Island pine in someone's gardens in a 9a borderline 9b part of the outskirts of London that took -4c one year with damage.  @Tyrone How does monstera deliciosa compare in hardiness to Chambeyronia mine didn't get damaged in winter also aloe "lizard lips" and Gasteria Verrucosa these on websites are rated as zone 10?

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by Foxpalms

8 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

I think there's a small norfolk Island pine in someone's gardens in a 9a borderline 9b part of the outskirts of London that took -4c one year with damage.  @Tyrone How does monstera deliciosa compare in hardiness to Chambeyronia mine didn't get damaged in winter also aloe "lizard lips" and Gasteria Verrucosa these on websites are rated as zone 10?

My Monstera deliciosa is in my shade house and never has sustained damage. But that kind of proves nothing in there as its all protected. Ive got Pritchardia schatteuri in there doing fine and Dypsis crinita. Philodendrum selloum on the other hand is out in the open and never gets damaged. But its tough. 

Back to Parajubaea. Here are my 3 biggies taken today before sundown. I’ve put the shovel in the pictures for scale. 

13 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Have you tried any of the Ravenea genus? ravenea xerophila and ravenea glauca. How fast does Chrysalidocarpus onilahensis typically grow mine only makes a few leaves per year but I've heard they are slow.

I´ve got  Ravenea rivularis with 1,50 mts of clear and thick trunk, and Xerophylla, much smaller , but it takes cold better than rivularis. This latter only suffers minor burns in winter and leaves lose colour, but I think it is more because of the wind than to cold.

Have you tried Arenga over there? I think it is even harder. I´ve got Engleri and Micrantha. Both in the ground for 9 years now and doing well, though slow.

Another palms to think of in your climate would be Accoelorhape wrightii (harder than what people think), Serenoas, Allagotera arenaria, and, even, some Caryotas lke: Ochlandra, Máxima and Gigas.

4 hours ago, gurugu said:

I´ve got  Ravenea rivularis with 1,50 mts of clear and thick trunk, and Xerophylla, much smaller , but it takes cold better than rivularis. This latter only suffers minor burns in winter and leaves lose colour, but I think it is more because of the wind than to cold.

Have you tried Arenga over there? I think it is even harder. I´ve got Engleri and Micrantha. Both in the ground for 9 years now and doing well, though slow.

Another palms to think of in your climate would be Accoelorhape wrightii (harder than what people think), Serenoas, Allagotera arenaria, and, even, some Caryotas lke: Ochlandra, Máxima and Gigas.

Arenga Engleri yes, arenga micrantha I've never seen for sale might have to grow some from seed.caryota maxima himalaya I have one in a pot not in ground which is left in a unheated greenhouse all winter. Allagotera arenaria looks nice but I always thought I was a 10a palm if it's 9b I'd consider. Thanks for the suggestions of palms only issue is most of these palms are hard to get here, luckily I have some hard to get ones already.

As Jamil doesn’t post here anymore i thought it would be interesting to post an update on his 2  parajubaea (london but far from the citycenter). One has completely defoliated and I included a still of the best looking one. All his syagrus didn’t make it and were replaced by washingtonia’s. 

Wow they look a bit rough. Also what happened to all the older participants in the thread ?

Here’s my row of 3 and big mumma is flowering for the first time. 

My two sunkha are both going to have babies together too. 

While we are at it a pic of my one and only P t var microcarpa.

The lake pictures have an amazing atmosphere

Looking good @Tyrone! 

Mine are similar sized, no flowers yet though. I dug out 8 or 10 smaller ones that were in crappy dry sand out the back, will replant them this spring at our new place, where hopefully they'll get better care! 

On 7/26/2025 at 4:57 PM, Axel Amsterdam said:

As Jamil doesn’t post here anymore i thought it would be interesting to post an update on his 2  parajubaea (london but far from the citycenter). One has completely defoliated and I included a still of the best looking one. All his syagrus didn’t make it and were replaced by washingtonia’s. 

Ouch, brutal!