I am the Peach, no para would dare not to enjoy my delightful climate.

Peachy,Parajubaea sunkha is your palm.....well....maybe.....

Hi Jo,nice to see you again!!!

I´m curious to see how your P.cocoides looks by now.....

I would buy anything with a name that started with parajubea if I could only find them. There used to be some nice P. cocoides in a friend's garden in Double Bay (Sydney)and from the minute I first laid my baby blues on them the yearning began. Oh the emptiness of this barren wasteland I call a garden, its as empty as my soul remains till my need for a para is fulfilled.

Peachy

Ah Peach!

Many would dare . . .

But!

Hmmmmmmm

Hey Adam, nice work. May that Parajubaea go nuts for you. If you want it to explode give it regular seaweed and fish emulsion, I normally use seasol and powerfeed mixed together on my coconut and it loves it. During the heat of summer I was applying a watering can of it every day or two to once a week depending if I remembered etc. I think it will love your amended clay. As you said lots of minerals and if you can get the drainage right it will be a very drought tolerant planting once it gets it's roots down which it will.

Best regards

Tyrone

Well done Adam.. to continue you on with what troy said, You are a combo (I think) of what I and Gary Levine have... Gary and you have HEAT, but I have no heat and Clay!

So, with that, I would have done exactly what you did EXCEPT, put the mulch BETWEEN your ground and your "sandy loam"... that way, the mulch starts working on your clay, and no mulch to worry the trunk about..

Thanks, BS. I appreciate your input.

My clay was treated many times with an Aussie product called "Claybreaker" - an evil smelling liquid that works faster than gypsum. For example, before treatment, the hole took two days to drain and after one dose, it took a day, after the second 6 hours, after the third 3 hours and after the last it was about the same. And the stuff is still working its magic.

I plan to still use this product around the base of the planting square for a good, long while............................

Also, the plant is on the top part of my garden where the soil wasn't excavated to build the house so the clay is not as bad as below (more compacted than clayey) and there is a natural slope of about 1m directly on the right of the plant when viewed in most pics.

Best I could do. Plant had to go in as the weather is warming up quite quickly with some days now getting to around 20C. Too late to dig up all that soil (or is it? - don't won't to disturb those thick, fleshy roots) and put down mulch.

Are you saying that the top of the soil should not be mulched?

No heat and clay for you, huh? I feel your pain.

Best.

Adam.

Adam, I agree, I would not move the palm, but that box is large..... I would dig up around the perimeter of that box and swap the mulch/loam position...

And yes, I would keep anything that can keep moisture, away from that trunk to prevent rot.

Here are two of my 6 Parajubaeas... P torralyi torralyi on left and P sunkha on right. Both planted out as 1' tall seedlings just over 5 years ago in VERY clay soil (poorly draining, though been getting better over the years- stays somewhat damp for over a month after it stops raining in the winter). Parajubaeas sure seem to like this soil... these are my second fastest growing species in the front yard (only Phoenix canariensis seem faster... or at least leaves reach a higher height)... beating out all the Trachycarpus, Bismarckias, Livistonas and Braheas in same area.

Great story guys. Adam, you've done a great job with the planting and it will be enjoying these uncharacteristically mild days recently.

Jo, you've got to post some photos of your Paras, I remember a couple of them when they were just babies.

@Tyrone – thanks - let's hope it's not a literal explosion! Though it is close to annoying neighbour.

@BS – Thank you - mulch now moved 30cm away from trunk. I'm happy with the drainage and will let the Claybreaker do its work.

@Geoff. WOOF! That's all very tasty and in CLAY!?! You sure? Stick your finger in! Did you "pot plant"?

@Tim. Thanks – Jo's Parajubs are looking superb. I have pictures of them from a couple of weeks ago but won't post them without her written consent and expert legal opinion..

Cheers everyone,

Adam

Good to see you didn't scrimp on the soil Adam, wild Jub expeditions? I've got to thankyou as I have a few of your progeny in the ground now. I can see that Tor Tor mound expanding over time and I hope you have planted it far enough away from the fence! I am a bit sussed on some of my own efforts and may have to cut some of my carport roof off later on!!

Good to see you didn't scrimp on the soil Adam, wild Jub expeditions? I've got to thankyou as I have a few of your progeny in the ground now. I can see that Tor Tor mound expanding over time and I hope you have planted it far enough away from the fence! I am a bit sussed on some of my own efforts and may have to cut some of my carport roof off later on!!

Thanks Mark. Jo and I used to go on Jub Hunting Expeditions......in Melbourne, not Chile as it's closer.

You have one of my babies? I don't recall this! How's it doing? What were its first words and do you have any pics?

It's about a 1.5m from the fence and has nothing above it. As you know, they tend to go shuttlecocky. Plenty of space and close enough to my annoying neighbour to annoy him.

Cheers,

Adam

Adam: I have a P. tor tor I puchased aboput 11 years ago as a single strap leaf. I let it grow in the pot until it had three leaves, and then planted it straight into the nastiest, heaviest, clay south Orange County has to offer. I used gypsum pellets and some chelated iron in the hole which was no larger than the pot. It now towers over almost every other tree in my yard at 25 feet over-all and never stops growing all year round. It gets no special fertilizers besides what the rest of the trees get.

The only thing I would recommend is not to put mulch in the bottom of the hole, as it will allow a pool of water to sit down there and rot everything above it. Other than some kind of gypsum or similar treatment, the tree should be a rocket.

Adam: I have a P. tor tor I puchased aboput 11 years ago as a single strap leaf. I let it grow in the pot until it had three leaves, and then planted it straight into the nastiest, heaviest, clay south Orange County has to offer. I used gypsum pellets and some chelated iron in the hole which was no larger than the pot. It now towers over almost every other tree in my yard at 25 feet over-all and never stops growing all year round. It gets no special fertilizers besides what the rest of the trees get.

The only thing I would recommend is not to put mulch in the bottom of the hole, as it will allow a pool of water to sit down there and rot everything above it. Other than some kind of gypsum or similar treatment, the tree should be a rocket.

Thanks avb. I don't know about OC clay - I know mine! They are putting new housing on an old brick quarry about 2km from me. it's clay with a purpose.

I'm happy with my arrangement, The compost I have down the hole will break down fast and help a little bit before the torture gets its roots down there - the weather is warming up quickly - a very pleasant 21C here today - that's about 70F. We don't get a huge amount of natural rainfall so I can keep it on the dry side if I have to and avoid pools.

Do you have a pic of this 25 foot beauty?

Cheers,

Adam

Here are two of my 6 Parajubaeas... P torralyi torralyi on left and P sunkha on right. Both planted out as 1' tall seedlings just over 5 years ago in VERY clay soil (poorly draining, though been getting better over the years- stays somewhat damp for over a month after it stops raining in the winter). Parajubaeas sure seem to like this soil... these are my second fastest growing species in the front yard (only Phoenix canariensis seem faster... or at least leaves reach a higher height)... beating out all the Trachycarpus, Bismarckias, Livistonas and Braheas in same area.

What a stately vista you've created, Geoff! *mutter mutter Brahea and Bismarckia mutter mutter no fair...*

Speaking of Stately Vistas, Jo.................

Give the public what they want!

Perfect Parajubaea private plantings. Look out your window.

EDIT: One or two Jub pics would not go astray either

me

Here are two pics, Adam. The top of the white fence is six feet from ground level. It's hard to get a good pic with the neighbor's queen palms in the immediate background.

Thanks!

Full of Parajub goodness!

There's some fern thing hiding potentially luscious trunk...............

How tall is the fence?

Cheers,

me.

The fence is about 6 feet. The trunk isn't especially attractive, since it's covered in fiber.

More pics are coming soon.

I took more of these with flash at night to help block out the neighbor's palms from obscuring the view. Some of the pics show the white waxy undersides of the leaflets.

WOW! Thanks avb!

That is white! For the readers at home I have a very soft spot for blue palms (Hi Dave from So Cal !) and those with white underneaths.

I'll print off a pic of that one, if I may, to place in front of my palm to give it something to aim at...........

I love their fuzzy trunks. I really wanted to see if you had caudex or real trunk. A little bit of, "fern to the left" would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Adam

Adam: It's a cycad, actually. I'll try to get a pic up this evening.

Alan

Adam: Three pics have been added to the albums above, pics 1 through 3. They are close shots of the trunk with a soda can for size comparison.

I have never seen the actual surface of the trunk, because it is covered with very dense fibers. It shows no sign of the leaf bases coming off at this point, as even the very oldest are still very well attached. I have seen a P. cocoides in Ventura which has about 15 feet of "clear" trunk, and it has the same dense fibers. They show no sign of coming off, either.

I like trunks that are clean, and if I had known the tree was fibrous, I wouldn't have planted it. I also had no idea it was so large, coming close to the size of a Canary Island Date. Luckily, it was planted far enough from the fence(so far so good) not to damage it. It turns out to be one of those trees that visitors always point out and ask what it is, probably because of the long fronds and the waxy, white undersides of the leaflets. Under certain wind conditions with bright sun, the tree appears to shimmer when the silvery leaflets shake in a steady breeze.

That's the stuff, Alan - nice and thick!

Thanks.

Doesn't take up as much space as a trunking CIDP (believe me - I have one with 1m of trunk and it spreads everywhere) as the leaves are held more horizontally with the Parajub.

I'm sure you can tolerate the fibres for those beautiful silvery-backed leaves I'm drooling again..... say, "shimmer" once more and I'll melt.

Cheers,

Adam

Well, it's now the 2nd of October and my Parajubaea has not grown 1mm!

Have I done something horribly, horribly wrong or is it just too busy, "establishing" and rooting like a rabid rabbit? Other palms I have planted are taking off.

Reassure me here, it gets all day sun, serenaded with Spanish guitar yet refuses to push a leaf forward.

Cheers,

Adam

Must be getting its roots down as my 3 are growing very well and its colder down here .

Well, I wish it would hurry up and finish rooting and get leafing.

It's getting slaughtered in the growth rate department by a Hedyscepe planted at the same time, for Deity's sake.

me - not known for my patience!

Fear not Adam, once it starts to grow, it won't quit even in mid-winter. Mine has pretty much caught up to or is about to pass almost every tree in my yard except for Kings, Syagrus, and Livistona decora.

I'll take you up on that, avb.

Once it starts to turbo charge, I expect to actually see it grow - you know - get hit in the head by a opening frond if I dare sit too close for a minute.

I can see it now in the morning sun - it's taunting me with its invasive plans................

I forgot to tell you Adam, that tor tor is set on 'remote activation'. Answer your text and I'll go outside and yell 'Vamos!'

Text answered. Time delay explained. Time for some shouting from your end, Jo

me again

How big is this now?? Did it take off as hoped??

On 7/30/2011 at 10:23 AM, Adam from Oz said:

Hi All,

 

This palm has a history. J. Australis bought seeds about 15 years ago and gave them to me to germinate. A few weeks ago, after the near-death experience of my little tor tor in the front, I got Jo's spare spare that I had germinated through manipulation and "favours". Here it is, "home" again after all that time. Needs to be put into the ground:

 

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh199/afromoz/uptor1.jpg

 

I don't have soil. I have muck called clay that is high in nutrients but low in interest in letting water pass through it. I dug a deep hole in it over a period of weeks, put Claybreaker in it filled the bottom of the hole with bags of compost and put together a rather large garden bed.

 

 

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh199/afromoz/uptor2.jpg

 

 

Then I bought something called, "sandy loam" (with extra sand thrown in). An entirely new concept for me - soil that looks great and feels sensual and drains!

 

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh199/afromoz/uptor3.jpg

 

Part two coming up!

What a beautiful palm, I think I will follow your strategy and build a raised bed for my PJtvt, how has your's grown over the last 10 years?

18 hours ago, Jamil Habib said:

What a beautiful palm, I think I will follow your strategy and build a raised bed for my PJtvt, how has your's grown over the last 10 years?

Adam and Jo aren’t active on the forum any more, I think I’m about the only active member from Melbourne these days.  It’s been years since I’ve seen Adam so I don’t know how this palm ended up. Last I checked, one of Jo’s P tvts remain and is absolutely huge. Unfortunately both the P tvt and P cocoides donated to Heelong Botanic gardens mentioned in this thread were removed, they did get very large but from memory there were fears of them toppling after they started to lean following a windy event, also the same reason one of Jo’s is no more. 
 

On the flip side to what was discussed in this topic, Parajubaeas have since been found to be weak at the roots of planted too high. It seems like as they get larger they need a good balance between good drainage but also with solid soil structure, not too sandy. Looking at their native habitat might be a clue; rocky substrate or similar is probably ideal. 
 

Just so I’m adding something to the topic, here’s mine. About 2.5 years in the ground from a large seedling size. Unfortunately Parajubaea are still far from common in Melbourne. 

1 hour ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Adam and Jo aren’t active on the forum any more, I think I’m about the only active member from Melbourne these days.  It’s been years since I’ve seen Adam so I don’t know how this palm ended up. Last I checked, one of Jo’s P tvts remain and is absolutely huge. Unfortunately both the P tvt and P cocoides donated to Heelong Botanic gardens mentioned in this thread were removed, they did get very large but from memory there were fears of them toppling after they started to lean following a windy event, also the same reason one of Jo’s is no more. 
 

On the flip side to what was discussed in this topic, Parajubaeas have since been found to be weak at the roots of planted too high. It seems like as they get larger they need a good balance between good drainage but also with solid soil structure, not too sandy. Looking at their native habitat might be a clue; rocky substrate or similar is probably ideal. 
 

Just so I’m adding something to the topic, here’s mine. About 2.5 years in the ground from a large seedling size. Unfortunately Parajubaea are still far from common in Melbourne. 

Tim, thanks so much for the update. Love your PJtvt, it's my favourite palm and I have been after one for a few years. Your's look's lovely and healthy.

Did you plant it out right away from a strap seedling, you probably have the perfect weather for it all year round and it should grow to be a beauty. Is it a heavy feeder?

Perfect timing as I was just about to purchase bags of sand, in that case, I will just had some shale for better drainage and firmer structure for the soil. 

Have you ever considered any of the Butia x Parajubaea hybrids? I planted 4 of these along with a butyagrus, they are small and not much to look at yet.

What other palms are you growing? My most tender palms are 3 Queens which are doing well, along with the classis hardy ones for my climate which include Trachys, Washy's, Phoenix, Butia,  Jubaea, Brahea and a Jubutia.

I plan on planting my ParaJubaea amongst this row of palms, one between my 2 Butias and the other between my 2 Jubaea’s. 

Edited October 4, 20223 yr by Jamil Habib

It’s been a long time since Adam and Jo posted here. They are missed I tell ya. Just so I’m adding something here are my biggest 3 growing in a mix of clay and peat next to a lake. These were planted as scrappy little seedlings in early 2015 so around 7 years in the ground and gaining speed. These pics are from aug 2021. They are bigger now.

51 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

It’s been a long time since Adam and Jo posted here. They are missed I tell ya. Just so I’m adding something here are my biggest 3 growing in a mix of clay and peat next to a lake. These were planted as scrappy little seedlings in early 2015 so around 7 years in the ground and gaining speed. These pics are from aug 2021. They are bigger now.

@Tyrone Wow your PTtvt look amazing, super healthy and vigorous. It also blows the theory that they need to be kept in a super dry habitat being that close to the lake! How small were they when you planted them? I'm intrigued at their growth rate!

1 hour ago, Jamil Habib said:

Tim, thanks so much for the update. Love your PJtvt, it's my favourite palm and I have been after one for a few years. Your's look's lovely and healthy.

Did you plant it out right away from a strap seedling, you probably have the perfect weather for it all year round and it should grow to be a beauty. Is it a heavy feeder?

Perfect timing as I was just about to purchase bags of sand, in that case, I will just had some shale for better drainage and firmer structure for the soil. 

Have you ever considered any of the Butia x Parajubaea hybrids? I planted 4 of these along with a butyagrus, they are small and not much to look at yet.

What other palms are you growing? My most tender palms are 3 Queens which are doing well, along with the classis hardy ones for my climate which include Trachys, Washy's, Phoenix, Butia,  Jubaea, Brahea and a Jubutia.

I plan on planting my ParaJubaea amongst this row of palms, one between my 2 Butias and the other between my 2 Jubaea’s. 

It was already pinnate when planted, but I did plant a strap leaved P sunkha at the same time that is also growing well. I only feed with organic liquid fertiliser in the warmer months, no different to the rest of the garden. Although when I set up the garden I brought in about 20 cubic metres of rich soil and I mulch heavily, so the soil condition is pretty good now and I’d expect access to nutrients isn’t a big issue for me now. I do always give the Parajubaeas a good dose of the liquid fertiliser and also liquid seaweed extract every month. 
 

Honestly I’ve never really considered the B x PJ hybrids. I’m not a massive fan of cocoid hybrids in general (with a couple of exceptions, wouldn’t mind a J x S if I ever came across one). 
 

I’ve got about 150 species now and despite Melbourne’s challenges, we’re pretty lucky with our climate in the grand scheme of things. Never really gets cold enough to knock out anything which can cope with light frost, and our cool summer nights allow us to grow Rhopalostylis, Hedyscepe etc. even some relatively tender palms are doing fairly well for me (about 20 species of Chrysalidocarpus, Dypsis rosea, a fair few New Caledonian species, Schippia, a few Pritchardia species etc). 

11 hours ago, Jamil Habib said:

@Tyrone Wow your PTtvt look amazing, super healthy and vigorous. It also blows the theory that they need to be kept in a super dry habitat being that close to the lake! How small were they when you planted them? I'm intrigued at their growth rate!

They originally were all in one community pot and I was reluctant to seperate them due to them not liking root disturbance. But I up ended the pot into the water and gently teased them apart slowly. They were just strap leaved at that time in jan 2015. After planting the one with the most roots did best, the other two initially struggled and one put a new leaf out the side. I thought I would lose them all but I didn’t lose any. The pictures below are from 2 years later in jan 2017.

12 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I’ve got about 150 species now and despite Melbourne’s challenges, we’re pretty lucky with our climate in the grand scheme of things. Never really gets cold enough to knock out anything which can cope with light frost, and our cool summer nights allow us to grow Rhopalostylis, Hedyscepe etc. even some relatively tender palms are doing fairly well for me (about 20 species of Chrysalidocarpus, Dypsis rosea, a fair few New Caledonian species, Schippia, a few Pritchardia species etc). 

What's the lowest temperature the Hedyscepe has seen, I'm thinking of trying one. Do you have any other suggestions for 9b palms to try other than the obvious ones. Any new caledonian palms that can tolerate the cool winters  and light frosts. Which Chrysalidocarpus palms tolerate the most cool weather? @Jamil HabibPVT should do well for you there are lots in colder parts of the UK that are fine.

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

What's the lowest temperature the Hedyscepe has seen, I'm thinking of trying one. Do you have any other suggestions for 9b palms to try other than the obvious ones. Any new caledonian palms that can tolerate the cool winters  and light frosts. Which Chrysalidocarpus palms tolerate the most cool weather? @Jamil HabibPVT should do well for you there are lots in colder parts of the UK that are fine.

I got down to -1.5c/29F this winter. That’s the coldest it’s been in the three years I’ve been here and about as bad as it gets. I’ve had about 15-20 nights in the last 2 winters with light frost and below 2C/36F. The Hedyscepe and many other palms appeared to suffer damage when I checked the day after the coldest event, but leaf marking actually disappeared on the Hedyscepe and most others, I ended up with very little damage considering the cold. 
 

For the New Caledonian species, the best bets are Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Chambeyronia oliviformis and Cyphophoenix elegans. They are all fairly bulletproof here. But if we are talking a UK 9b, I really don’t think they are any chance. They don’t grow in Hobart which is more like 10a and has a tad more heat than just about the whole UK. If you could get your hands on Chambeyronia lepidota (high elevation) or Basselinia moorei I’d be interested to see how they go in a really cool climate, but I haven’t tried yet (got a couple of B moorei seedlings popping up now which will be tested at some stage). 
 

For Chrysalidocarpus, the hardiest to cool and cold are C decipiens, baronii, onilahensis and ambositrae. I’m pretty sure they all have been known to grow in Hobart so would be some kind of chance in warmer parts of Southern UK as long as they don’t get exposed to hard freezes. Maybe @Tassie_Troy1971could chime in. 

30 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I got down to -1.5c/29F this winter. That’s the coldest it’s been in the three years I’ve been here and about as bad as it gets. I’ve had about 15-20 nights in the last 2 winters with light frost and below 2C/36F. The Hedyscepe and many other palms appeared to suffer damage when I checked the day after the coldest event, but leaf marking actually disappeared on the Hedyscepe and most others, I ended up with very little damage considering the cold. 
 

For the New Caledonian species, the best bets are Chambeyronia macrocarpa, Chambeyronia oliviformis and Cyphophoenix elegans. They are all fairly bulletproof here. But if we are talking a UK 9b, I really don’t think they are any chance. They don’t grow in Hobart which is more like 10a and has a tad more heat than just about the whole UK. If you could get your hands on Chambeyronia lepidota (high elevation) or Basselinia moorei I’d be interested to see how they go in a really cool climate, but I haven’t tried yet (got a couple of B moorei seedlings popping up now which will be tested at some stage). 
 

For Chrysalidocarpus, the hardiest to cool and cold are C decipiens, baronii, onilahensis and ambositrae. I’m pretty sure they all have been known to grow in Hobart so would be some kind of chance in warmer parts of Southern UK as long as they don’t get exposed to hard freezes. Maybe @Tassie_Troy1971could chime in. 

I know Hobart has warmer winters than here but is it the cool winters that are the determining factor that Chambeyronia don't grow there or cool summers. The summers in Hobart are cooler than here in London. I averaged 22c for July and August this summer with an average high over 27c for both months. We get the hot dry air from southern Europe in the summer in the southeast and combined with the urban heat island the nights have been very warm here.  I think UK palms said there is a Chambeyronia macrocarpa growing unprotected on the Isle of Wight and a beccariophoenix alfredii in London.  Syagrus romanzoffianana, archontophoenix and howea forsteriana are all fine here more palms need to be tested here.

Edited October 5, 20223 yr by Foxpalms