Phoenix atlantica

[Morabeza]

In the "CIDP in Hawai`i" thread Tom (tomspalmsdotcalm)

brought up the subject of Phoenix atlantica growing in it's native habitat in the Cape Verde Islands.  This topic is interesting to me especially because I lived in the Cape Verde islands from 1999-2000 (about 8 months) and visited the type population many times while I lived just a few miles away.

The IPS journal article that he linked to

http://www.palms.org/palmsjournal/2003/capeverde.htm

was something I hadn't read before.  I especially found the description of their time there entertaining, seeing as it's rare I meet anyone who even knows these islands exist (mostly Americans) let alone those who have actually been.   (Although I am sure this doesn't apply to this intellegent group on Palmtalk!)

There may be very little in the way of botanising is such an arid place, but it's a wonderful place.  

I lived on the island of Sal for 4 months.  Here are some photos I took of Phoenix atlantica near the small village Fontona:

[Morabeza]

In the IPS article they mentioned the local rum called "grogue". made from sugar cane.  On the island of Santo Antão, in the Valley of Paúl,   the smoke from these distilleries can be seen from up the mountainside (and smelt... not a pleasing aroma)

Here is Paúl Valley:

Me looking silly next to a pile of sugar cane waiting to be processed:

I laughed out loud when I read that the botanists used grogue to preserve the Phoenix flowers and leaves.  It is really strong stuff, though I haven't actually tried it myself.

[Morabeza]

Here is a picture of an endemic non-palm species on Monte Verde on the island of São Vicente where I lived for 4 months as well.  Campanula jacobaea (I had to pose next to it because my name too is Jacob).  This species only grows at elevations above 600m.

As a side note, my screen name 'morabeza' is actually the Cape Verdean Creole equivalent of the word 'aloha'.  (refers to the feeling, not the greeting).

[Kris]

Dear Morabeza  

thanks for those lovely stills & those phoenix is

desperately in need of a clean shave,lots of dried

leaves hanging.still that baby looks wild & sexy !

Love,

Kris.

[M@ximus]

Ciao  Jacob  !!

Beautiful  pics!

I  have  two  small  phoenix  atlantica   on  my  garden,

very  fast  growing!!

Despite    for   botanist   is  only  an    Hybrid,   I  love  it!!

Ciao  M@x

Here  a  pics  of  one  at  Rome  Botanical  garden

[DoomsDave]

Jacob!

Great pictures, keep them coming.

Hmm.  I'd avoid anything with a name like "grogue"; sounds like a cross between grog and rogue . . . .

dave

[Exotic Life]

Nice pics ...

M@x, faster growing then the phoenix species i have got from you ?

Robbin

[Alberto]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Jan. 13 2007,19:01)

QUOTE

Jacob!

Great pictures, keep them coming.

Hmm.  I'd avoid anything with a name like "grogue"; sounds like a cross between grog and rogue . . . .

dave

the word ´´grogue´´in portuguese also refers to someone that is dizzy, effect of an alcoholic beverage...

[M@ximus]

(Exotic Life @ Jan. 14 2007,16:06)

QUOTE

Nice pics ...

M@x, faster growing then the phoenix species i have got from you ?

Robbin

ciao  Robbin!

Yes  , in  my  climate  Phoenix  Atlantica  is a  very  fast growing palm!

  M@x

[Carlo Morici]

Great pictures. Fascinating. I live in the Canary Islands but I have never been yet to Cape Verde (yet). It is so close that it is a pity.

The pictures of you with the landscapes behind could be here in Tenerife, anywhere in the mountain chains of Anaga or Teno.

The relationship Canarias-Cabo Verde are increasing and more and more people now move back and forth (mostly Canarians visiting, moving or investing in Cape Verde. Some botanists go often... but I never had the chance

Phoenix atlantica is a valid species again. The taxon was "rescued" with the paper "Phoenix in the Cape Verde Islands", published in 2003 in PALMS: the journal of the IPS (by S.Henderson et al. in Vol.47(1)).

Read the article online at: http://palms.org/palmsjournal/2003/capeverde.htm

And the last word came as recently as April 2006. Look at this:

Title: Genetic isolation of Cape Verde Island Phoenix atlantica (Arecaceae) revealed by microsatellite markers

Authors: Henderson, S.1; Billotte, N.; Pintaud, J.-C.

Source: Conservation Genetics, Volume 7, Number 2, April 2006, pp. 213-223(11)

Publisher: Springer

Whole article by payment at: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content....0009128

Abstract:

Increasing human pressure on the environment in the isolated Macaronesian island group of Cape Verde is threatening many endemic species with extinction. The status of Phoenix atlantica, the Cape Verde Island date palm, is one of the unresolved taxonomic issues not only of the archipelago's flora but also in the genus Phoenix. We applied 15 nuclear microsatellite markers and one chloroplast minisatellite marker to individuals of Phoenix from the Cape Verde Islands, P. dactylifera, P. canariensis and P. sylvestris, in order to assess the taxonomic position of P. atlantica within the genus. Our analysis showed that P. atlantica is clearly distinct from its close relatives and that its closest relative is likely to be its nearest geographical neighbour, P. dactylifera. Comparable levels of genetic diversity were found in insular P. atlantica and continental P. dactylifera despite the large difference in geographic range size. Our findings highlight the importance of conserving the relatively fragmented and isolated populations of P. atlantica as one of only two endemic trees on the islands and emphasise the need for further studies into its evolution and relationship with P. dactylifera.

Massimo,

I am glad to see the plant in the Orto Botanico in Rome.

Any other pictures anybody?

Carlo, Tenerife

[polihale]

Morabeza79 (and M@ximus),

I am amazed. I always thought P. atlantica was mythical. I remember researching it once and finding no references to any actual, living specimen. The next obvious question: how do I get some Cape Verde Island P. atlantica seeds? I'm serious. Any ideas? I would LOVE to grow a 'mythical' palm here on Kauai -- half the world away from the Canary Islands.

I thought I knew the Phoenix genus pretty well, but I guess not. Seeds from Phoenix iberica (a species I hadn't even heard of until I started researching the altantica today) are now for sale on the internet (RarePalmSeeds).

Look! Phoenix iberica looks very similar to atlantica. Check it out: Comments?

[M@ximus]

(polihale @ Jan. 15 2007,08:50)

QUOTE

Morabeza79 (and M@ximus),

I am amazed. I always thought P. atlantica was mythical. I remember researching it once and finding no references to any actual, living specimen. The next obvious question: how do I get some Cape Verde Island P. atlantica seeds? I'm serious. Any ideas? I would LOVE to grow a 'mythical' palm here on Kauai -- half the world away from the Canary Islands.

I thought I knew the Phoenix genus pretty well, but I guess not. Seeds from Phoenix iberica (a species I hadn't even heard of until I started researching the altantica today) are now for sale on the internet (RarePalmSeeds).

Look! Phoenix iberica looks very similar to atlantica. Check it out: Comments?

ciao  Christoper!

i  don't  know  how  get  seeds  of  it!!

you  can find   small  Phoenix  atlantica  here:

http://www.palmaris.org/

ciao  M@x

[Carlo Morici]

Oooh! Where did you got those pictures of P.iberica?

Phoenix iberica is still lost in the taxonomic kingdom of nowhere. It could be a species or just a peculiar population of feral dates introduced thousands of years ago, which might have lost domestic characters, so their pollen is more fertile than in the domestic P.dactylifera, inflorescences are shorter and infructescences are shorter, staying within the crown, etc.  I have no final opinion, I think more studies are needed.

Carlo

[Morabeza]

I have been MIA for a week or more, wow I am so pleased to get all this feedback on this species

@Kris - I like 'em wild and sexy (untrimmed -my palms that is)

Ciao Maximus - it must be exciting to grow P. atlantica in your  garden.  Where did you obtain the seed?  Many many Italian tourists vist the island of Sal every year, where there is a population at Fontona.  Did you by chance get seed from Cabo Verde?

@Robbin - Thanks!

Ciao Carlo, Thank you for the links and input.  I am so glad to hear that Canarias Botanists are giving attention to Cape Verdean Flora.  Most species left are hanging on the very brink of extinction!  They have some lovely Echium and Sonchus endemics quite similar to those from Las Canarias.  One day I will have to come visit you and your remarkable Palmetum.  Yes, When I first saw images of the mountain landscape of the Canaries I was struck by just how similar they are to those of CV.

[chris.oz]

(Carlo Morici @ Jan. 15 2007,07:46)

QUOTE

Oooh! Where did you got those pictures of P.iberica?

Phoenix iberica is still lost in the taxonomic kingdom of nowhere. It could be a species or just a peculiar population of feral dates introduced thousands of years ago, which might have lost domestic characters, so their pollen is more fertile than in the domestic P.dactylifera, inflorescences are shorter and infructescences are shorter, staying within the crown, etc.  I have no final opinion, I think more studies are needed.

Carlo

Hi Carlo,

You probably know that a lot of DNA work has been done by various labs in the Arab world, as dates are such an important economic issue for those living in oases.   In Tunisia the dominance of Deglet noir has lead to concern about the susceptibility of palms to fungal outbreaks and there is a desire to improve the genetic "vigour" of the palm stock.   Accordingly they have developed techniques to look at the degree of genetic diversity in cultivars and varieties.    It could be that the degree of diversity of P. iberica could be determined by these labs ...... but ,  I think its pretty costly unless done in a batch.

[Howeadypsis]

fascinating stuff,just how many species of phoenix are there out there? also interesting to read that its habitat is quite dry and that there is very little rainfall. my young P.dactylifera is incredibly thirsty,i'm forever watering it!

[M@ximus]

(Morabeza79 @ Jan. 29 2007,07:52)

QUOTE

I have been MIA for a week or more, wow I am so pleased to get all this feedback on this species

@Kris - I like 'em wild and sexy (untrimmed -my palms that is)

Ciao Maximus - it must be exciting to grow P. atlantica in your  garden.  Where did you obtain the seed?  Many many Italian tourists vist the island of Sal every year, where there is a population at Fontona.  Did you by chance get seed from Cabo Verde?

@Robbin - Thanks!

Ciao Carlo, Thank you for the links and input.  I am so glad to hear that Canarias Botanists are giving attention to Cape Verdean Flora.  Most species left are hanging on the very brink of extinction!  They have some lovely Echium and Sonchus endemics quite similar to those from Las Canarias.  One day I will have to come visit you and your remarkable Palmetum.  Yes, When I first saw images of the mountain landscape of the Canaries I was struck by just how similar they are to those of CV.

Some  friends  planning  to  have  a  holiday  on  Capo  Verde  , next  month!!

I  will  ask  them   to  collect  Atlantica  seeds  , and

I  will  let  You  know  if  raid  for  seeds   worked!!

Ciao   M@x

[Zac in NC]

Jacob- I just found this thread. Wow, neat looking palms. It really shows they are wild plants, since they are untrimmed and scruffy like they are. I just love seeing that look. Got any more pics of those??

Zac

[Brian Bruning]

If anyone has seeds or small plants I'm interested.  Buy or trade.  BrianRBruning@gmail.com