Rate these palms in terms of cold hardiness

[Trópico]

This past week saw the loss of two common palms that I can purchase on a short drive and replace but on the other hand I really wanted to keep alive since I grew them from seed myself. These common and tropical palms have made their appearance at box stores and most nurseries even in marginal climates like ours in zone 9B. In our case you can grow them for many years in a protected spot but as in the case of winter '09-'10, they can get wiped out from the urban landscape from time to time, save a few stout ones, or micro-climated ones that may survive or struggle. One of mine, a spindle palm about to trunk, got severely stunted since I planted it too far from the heat influence of the house, then died as a result of another set of harsh winter lows, opportunistic insects munching on the worst place possible, then bud rot. In my area there is a Wodyetia bifurcata that remains unscathed, about 99% Adonidias perished and the survivors look struggling, a few surviving royals that look very good, and 100% (as far as I know) of the Spindles and Coconuts died as a result of 2010.

If you start seeing these on the roadside, you know you've crossed into the blessed and fortunate realms of zones 10 and above. I'd love a few of those, well, ALL of them, in my front yard.

Please select the cold hardiest among the list. In your reply, can you order by most hardy all the way to least hardy? How about sharing a bit of your experiences with any of them?

Also, for cool subtropics people (in California, Australia, the lower mediterranean areas), I see many threads about trying coconuts, etc. Have you also tried any of the others, and do they stand a better chance?

[Palmə häl′ik]

My experiences go with Regia and Wodyetia.

(and that's not much BTW) (3 years)

They're about equal for me under canopy...

~Ray.

[MattyB]

Woodyetia and Regia are clearly the cold hardiest in my experience. Don't know which is hardier though. I choose R. regia.

[sonoranfans]

Its really important to consider size. When I drive inland away from the water down here(colder in winter) I will find royals further inland than foxtails, and they will be bigger ones. Royals will also get to size faster. I see the royals(of same size) came back faster than foxtails from this record december cold. Small foxtail and royals both died inland a bit, the medium sized ones have the royals coming back faster. Looking at the rest of the list cocos and adonidias are weak. Spindles? Small sample(8 footer) but I know of only 1 nearby. It took a real burn, right to the spear and is coming back. It seems that spindles are less cold hardy than the royals and foxtails, but it is alive. All the cocos and adinodias nearby are dead. Oh I forgot the bottle, none alive here to see. I have one and it was under the porch. They even got burned bad over in st pete. I would say bottles are closer to cocos than spindles, that is less cold hardy than spindles.

Edited June 2, 2011 by sonoranfans

[Xenon]

Cocos nucifera

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

Adonidia merilli

Hyophorbe verschafellti

Wodyetia bifurcata

Roystonea regia

Based on what I saw in South Texas after January 2010, I didn't see any Adonidia or H. verschafellti...

Jonathan

[sonoranfans]

I would like to see more kentiopsis oliviformis here to see what they can do. I have a small one(2' overall) that survived the 2 hard frosts that killed one foxtail one royal and two foxy ladies of a little bigger size. It could be that the Kentiopsis could be more cold hardy than foxtails or royals. Problem is they get to size slower and like I pointed out before, size makes them more cold hardy.

[stygiana]

Of the places where I lived with cold winters (Mediterranean climates), I will focus on Andalucia, as none of these species grew in southern France (Côte d'Azur). I suspect Jacques Deleuze, in southern Corsica has tried and maybe succeeded one or two in that list (surely not Cocos of course), but I'm not sure.

So concerning my experience and observations in southern Andalucia, in both coastal and inland places, I'd say only two were totally absent : Cocos and Adonidia.

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis was very rare, but there is a nice old specimen in the shade at Parque Majuelo, in Almuñecar and I saw a big one (though planted not such a long ago, maybe 8 years) on a round about somewhere between Malaga and Velez-M. I saw a few young ones too, but don't know if they survived.

Now, Wodyetia is uncommon but sometimes seen. Including rather big ones. They however look horrible in winter, but thanks to the long hot summers, they manage to survive.

Roystonea regias are a common sight, but salt spray and winter wind make them look half-burnt during the cool season. They somehow look fantastic in summer and autumn and have superb fat trunks. Some folks say there are different species there, but I'm not sure...

Last but not least as, on the contrary of the other votes, I chose that one as the cold hardiest : Hyophorbe verschaffeltii. Most definitely the most common of them in that region. Besides, while the others were always restricted to coastal areas, H. verschaffeltii grew further inland, as far as Orgiva or Coin. Maybe it comes from the differences of climate compared to SCal, but honestly, that was my observation and experience. To help, here are some datas of that region :

Winter rainfal, average of 300 to 400 mm per year on the coast, up to 600 to 700 in inland valley (except the region north of Gibraltar which is much rainier).

Only a few spots had no frost at all in the last 120 years (official meteorological record, not some of those dubious equatorial microclimates in a super sheltered patio) : Cadiz, Gibraltar, Almuñecar. Long term record lows in Motril are barely 31°F (-0,5°C). Note that inland valleys can reach -3 to -6°C at low altitude (exceptionnaly of course, but one night is enough to make a disaster, I know it too well as I experienced a 50 years record frost there...).

Average temperatures are maybe the key : Av. min of the coldest month on the cost in Almuñecar : 9°C, Av. max : 16,5°C

Av min of the warmest month : 22°C, Av max : 30°C

Inland : Av min coldest month : 5,5°C, Av max : 17,5C

Av min warmest month : 22,5C, Av max : 33°C

Have you noticed the average minimums in summer? Quite high... While similar in winter, it's only 19,5°C for the warmest month at San Diego's International Airport, right by the laguna. And 17,2°C at La Mesa, and even cooler in Alpine, of course. This is probably what makes H. verschaffeltii unhappy. My opinion... But concerning how it dealt with the cold, as this is the question, where I observed it in Andalucia, it was the best of the list above.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Sebastian Bano

[Don Little]

Frank,

In my experience I would rate A. merilli as least followed by coconut, then bottle, never tried a spindle but there are more around in so cal than bottles which tells me they are hardier. My Foxtails and R regias would definitely be the most hardy by far. I would probably give the edge to R regia based on what I have heard from others. The problem comparing our experiences with with your area is that our winters are not always really cold more than they are cool. I Had a Cocos last 3 winters here in the ground surrounded by cement and south facing side of the house only to croak this past terribly cool winter but have never had a bottle last over winter same as A merilli. None of them were killed by out right cold as I haven't seen below freezing since the "07" freeze in which I didn't have the coconut or A merilli at the time. My Royals and Foxtails made it thru 29 degrees in "07" without so much as a scratch. Just my experiences.

Don

[newtothis]

I know you mean outside, but this winter I had my potted h.v in the garage for weeks even when it was down to 16F outside...with no heater. Never browned and resumed growth in March.

Same with my A.myolensis

Edited June 3, 2011 by newtothis

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

All great answers. Hardiest for here: Roystonea regia; them Wodeytia; Veitchia merelii; then the Hyophorbe(s). MInimum temperatures for ladst two winters:

2010: 34 F. for three hours; 2011: 35 F. for 6 hours! NO frost either event. Coconuts look "dismal" STILL. I would say that So Esat Fla. lost 30% way after the cold event to bud rot fungi. Paul, the PD.

[sarasota alex]

Here West of I-75 in Sarasota we haven't lost any Roystoneas or Wodyetias. Only the newly planted specimens suffered any serious damage. Most went virtually undamaged. Most Coconuts and Bottles further than a couple of miles from the water lost all of their leaves. Many died. Spindles and Adonidias - heavy casualties there.

[Trópico]

Thanks for your answers, very informative! I am surprised then why is the Foxtail planted here in C FL more often than the royal... I think both stand good chances of surviving long term but still, Foxtails are available everywhere whereas regias are rarely seen, save in a few daring commercial projects.

[sonoranfans]

Thanks for your answers, very informative! I am surprised then why is the Foxtail planted here in C FL more often than the royal... I think both stand good chances of surviving long term but still, Foxtails are available everywhere whereas regias are rarely seen, save in a few daring commercial projects.

Regias get huge and drop huge fronds that can hurt passers by. Im sure this has something to do with their utilization in landscaping. At first I wasnt enthusiastic about them for this reason. Then I had to have a couple of those giants with their fatty trunks, but just 2.

[Central Floridave]

Foxtails are super drought tolerant, versus royals that need water. I would say foxtails are better for Cent.Fla. than Royals. another probable reason is that foxtails are cheaper.

[sonoranfans]

Foxtails are super drought tolerant, versus royals that need water. I would say foxtails are better for Cent.Fla. than Royals. another probable reason is that foxtails are cheaper.

This could be because the royal farms are not nearby. Here you get a bigger royal for the same price. Im thinking transportation of those heavy, thick trunked royals are expensive. Yup royals are more thirsty, but also seem to be able to take a wet/cold winter better.

Edited June 3, 2011 by sonoranfans

[palmsOrl]

Both of my large royals survived the last two winters totally unprotected, as did my 18 ft. foxtail (which is in a somewhat more sheltered area). My royals are both on the edge of a canal, so water needs are never an issue. Based on my observations over the last several years, royals should be tried more in Metro Orlando in naturally wetter spots. The same safety considerations should apply when locating royals in this area as in South Florida.

-Michael

[Takil-Explorer]

Well I guess Roystone regia should be the winner.

Alexander

[JimR]

I have had all of these palms except the coconut and the Spindle and have lost all to cold except the Royals.

Jim

[Geoff]

In most of southern California, particularly inland where I live, this is a 'no brainer'... Roystonea regia is a pretty hardy palm where I live, though gets toasted by the frosts. Around the rest of southern California is is pretty darn dependable. Wodyetias are super marginal where I live in the San Fernando Valley and similar climates and only survive if grown in the right spot (see the mass planting at the Los Angeles arboretum.. .which is now down to an impressive 'mass' of one). Hyophorbe verschaffeltii is easily the next hardiest, being impossible to grow where I live, but lots of impressive, mature specimens throughout California nearer the coast, or in the deserts. Then comes the bottle palm, which is pretty darn marginal everywhere and few really great looking plants exist in California. However it is far and above more cold tolerant in our climate than Cocos or Adonidia. Not a chance in hell of H lagenicaulis living here in the San Fernando Valley. Then comes the last two, which in California are pretty close to equally impossible to grow anywhere (though the Adonidia has 'eked on' in more gardens than the Coconut palm has). I guess I would have to give the incredibly subtle edge of hardiness to the coconut as there is at least one maturish specimen out here, and I am not aware of any maturish Adonidias still alive in California (outdoors). I could be wrong there... anyone?

It is interesting to note that these relative hardinesses do not apply in a Florida-type climate.

[Walter John]

I voted Wodyeti, with Roystonea a close second. The royals don't grow very quick or true to form in cold, yet they will grow, whilst a foxtail with a sunny spot will get along nicely. I'm using the surrounding higher Gympie area as my source of investigation.

[Cikas]

Size is also important factor.

[Hammer]

Size is also important factor.

Oh to risk a warning or not to risk one.

[_Keith]

Size is also important factor.

Oh to risk a warning or not to risk one.

It is not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean. Of course the bigger the boat, the less concern about the motion of the ocean. I was once a sailor, and later a fisherman before becoming a gardener. I can assure you it is true.

[Hammer]

Ha!!!!!!

[Cikas]

My point was, it seems that Wodyetia bifurcata is more cold hardy than Roystonea regia when they are smaller.

But Roystonea regia is more cold hardy when mature than Wodyetia bifurcata.

So size of the palm is important factor. Do we speak about mature palms or about seedlings and juvenile?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Cikas

[Hammer]

My point was, it seems that Wodyetia bifurcata is more cold hardy than Roystonea regia when they are smaller.

But Roystonea regia is more cold hardy when mature than Wodyetia bifurcata.

So size of the palm is important factor. Do we speak about mature palms or about seedlings and juvenile?

Your point is a good one and well taken. It was me who was being juvenile, not the palms.

[_Keith]

So, if we are talking size, small or large, none of those are cold hardy. Most cold hardy, well, they are all gonna die.

[Hammer]

Not necessarily Keith. Some of these do grow in California while others do not. Imo, it's an issue of location.

[_Keith]

Not necessarily Keith. Some of these do grow in California while others do not. Imo, it's an issue of location.

But you dry guys aren't cold. Come down here and experience cold with 80+% humidity. You'll be banging on the door to get inside in a heartbeat.

[Matthew92]

Just happened upon an amazing find! Looks like at least one small foxtail may have survived an Upper Gulf Coast winter in ground. 

Background: The winter of 2012-2013 was easy on the Upper Gulf Coast with some zone 8 areas in the FL Panhandle only getting to 22-23 degrees at the lowest for a brief period of time.

Was just now cruising through streetview in Pensacola with imagery from April 2013 and found two foxtails someone planted in the ground. It looks as if they may have endured the aforementioned winter. There is cold damage and the one on the right looks more completely burnt. Could these have possibly survived at least mid 20's? (this neighborhood might also have been warmer than other areas) Although we probably will never know since they may have been covered or even planted after that low freeze event which I believe was in January. 

And to give an example of how easy this winter was, I had 2 small queens in ground on the south side of my house (maybe 2 degrees warmer microclimate) at the time, and they survived the 22-23 degrees (recorded on west side of house) unprotected that winter. There was no real damage on them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4909929,-87.1766317,3a,30y,229.82h,83.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY3pr_kuMP5wfDOcRbUDsDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Edited November 24, 2015 by Opal92

[_Keith]

17 minutes ago, Opal92 said:

Just happened upon an amazing find! Looks like at least one small foxtail may have survived an Upper Gulf Coast winter in ground. 

Background: The winter of 2012-2013 was easy on the Upper Gulf Coast with some zone 8 areas in the FL Panhandle only getting to 22-23 degrees at the lowest for a brief period of time.

Was just now cruising through streetview in Pensacola with imagery from April 2013 and found two foxtails someone planted in the ground. It looks as if they may have endured the aforementioned winter. There is cold damage and the one on the right looks more completely burnt. Could these have possibly survived at least mid 20's? (this neighborhood might also have been warmer than other areas) Although we probably will never know since they may have been covered or even planted after that low freeze event which I believe was in January. 

And to give an example of how easy this winter was, I had 2 small queens in ground on the south side of my house (maybe 2 degrees warmer microclimate) at the time, and they survived the 22-23 degrees (recorded on west side of house) unprotected that winter. There was no real damage on them.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4909929,-87.1766317,3a,30y,229.82h,83.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY3pr_kuMP5wfDOcRbUDsDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

They look to be recently planted, although I cannot be sure.  They may have survived, well one that is, inside of a semi-protected big box environment and not in the ground open.  My winter that year was the same.  And I have killed more than one in milder winters than that one.   I remain firmly believed that this palm outside a run of a few mild winters is an impossibility in Zone 9a.

[Ben in Norcal]

5 hours ago, _Keith said:

They look to be recently planted, although I cannot be sure.  They may have survived, well one that is, inside of a semi-protected big box environment and not in the ground open.  My winter that year was the same.  And I have killed more than one in milder winters than that one.   I remain firmly believed that this palm outside a run of a few mild winters is an impossibility in Zone 9a.

I believe it is an impossibility long-term in 9b, at least California 9b.  But that didn't stop me buying for cheap 7g plants that popped up at the local big box!

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

Listed on order from most to least cold hardy. My best guess:

1. Foxtail

2. Royal

3. Spindle

4. Cocos

5. Bottle and Christmas tie

[Moose]

10 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I believe it is an impossibility long-term in 9b, at least California 9b.  But that didn't stop me buying for cheap 7g plants that popped up at the local big box!

 

Just imagine being a foxtail in  big box orphanage. Your parental grower gave you away for dirt cheap. Now someone adopts you where you are going to exist in a 9b zone. Poor foxtail 

[Ben in Norcal]

35 minutes ago, Moose said:

 

Just imagine being a foxtail in  big box orphanage. Your parental grower gave you away for dirt cheap. Now someone adopts you where you are going to exist in a 9b zone. Poor foxtail 

On the bright side, they are snuggled up in my nice warm greenhouse on this 38 degree night.  For this winter, at least, they should be happy!

[Moose]

16 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

On the bright side, they are snuggled up in my nice warm greenhouse on this 38 degree night.  For this winter, at least, they should be happy!

 38 F ouch, its been awhile since we've had that in the mooseland.OK, I feel blessed climate wise. There is no Fox tails in my garden. I did guerilla plant one in the neighbor's yard.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 minute ago, Moose said:

 38 F ouch, its been awhile since we've had that in the mooseland.OK, I feel blessed climate wise. There is no Fox tails in my garden. I did guerilla plant one in the neighbor's yard.

We have an arctic front moving through the next several days, so it's likely to get uglier than that across California.  I'm showing a string of 34 degree lows through the weekend.  Grumble grumble!

[aivalima]

My vote goes to Wodyetia bifurcate I think is the cold hardiest among the list....

[Pete in Paradise Hills]

On 11/25/2015, 5:45:19, Ben in Norcal said:

We have an arctic front moving through the next several days, so it's likely to get uglier than that across California.  I'm showing a string of 34 degree lows through the weekend.  Grumble grumble!

Now I understand why you like hybrids Ben. Makes sense up there.

[Moose]

On 11/25/2015, 8:45:19, Ben in Norcal said:

We have an arctic front moving through the next several days, so it's likely to get uglier than that across California.  I'm showing a string of 34 degree lows through the weekend.  Grumble grumble!

Oh no not good. Bring the "Black Stem" in. Sabal sp. " Lisa" should be fine. These rest will have to fend off the uglinest.