How to protect from this freeze.

[Palmy]

Early in the season for osme reason the bay area stayed above 28, but I got down to 23F. I wasnt truely expecting it but just in case it gets even lower, what should I do? I put bags on them last time. I have christmas lights I can use. Some places high up and nestled in valleys may get below 20F. Most of the bay area I think will be above 25F. Im expecting around 23F again. What exactly should I do to help those palms that I planted last spring? The last freeze caught me, this time I will make sure Im prepared. I hope everybody in California for the best of luck.

[ghar41]

I guess there are a lot of different techniques for helping tender plants deal with freezing temperatures.  Ive used the Christmas lights, placing a covering over or around the plant (works well in conjunction with a light.)  Ive heard of people wrapping the trunk of larger trees near the growing spear with burlap, although I've never tried this.  

I can tell you that the number one priority for my garden in the next few days is to get it IRRIGATED.  Make sure to allow water that gets on the plants enough time to dry before nightfall.

From what I have seen on the latest reports, this is a dry, cold system, nearing 10 degrees below freezing at its worst, in my area.  This kind of cold has the potential to kill moisture loving tender palms like A. cunninghamiana in a heartbeat.  Especially if we don't get adequate warmth in between the successive cold nights.  

Not to add to an already worsening situation but, remember, each successive freeze weakens marginal plants.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I'm keeping tabs on all the weather services. The Weather Channel site is the most bleak for my area with an expected low Friday night of 25F! I haven't had a reading that low in a over decade. Nat. Weather Service says 30F for the same night, Weather Underground 30F, and Accuweather 29F.

In a dire situation, I have three turbo kerosine heaters 20,000 btu each that I can stategically place in the coldest parts of my yard, plug in and let their jets blast heat where I need it. I've never needed them and they've been in there original shipping boxes for years and I'm hoping that that's the story this time too. We'll see.

If Weather Channel is wrong and the other guys 'r right, I'll just be placing umbrellas over my exposed, small, tender palms (Pritchardia minor, Dypsis species, etc.)

[MattyB]

Zach, you should put some stakes around your palms, wrap some cloth/sheets/plastic around the stakes and then fill the enclosure, surrounding you palm with dry leaves or crumpled paper to insulate.  Then cover the whole shabang up.  This will work for the couple of freezing nights.  Oh, yeah, put your lights in there for warmth. Good luck.

[PalmGuyWC]

Does anyone know if the small Xmas lights that are so popular now produce enough heat to do any good?  I have a head high Caryota that I thought I would sprial the lights around, and a sheet over it too.  I'm thinking I would put a 150W bulb at the base of a couple of smaller tender palms, and then cover them.

As each day goes by, my Parajubaea T V T looks worse, and that was from the first hard freeze we had in Dec.  The Bismarkia looks fine so far with no sign of damage and ditto with the Butia X Parajubaea.  My large P. cocoides which has some high protection has definate frond damage from the earlier freeze, so it must have gotten below 25 F in that area. I'll definately be shopping at the hardware store today.

This is NOT fun!!

Dick

[MattyB]

Dick, I've never had to use lights for protecting my palms.  But I will tell you that when covered they produce a heck of a lot of heat.  I use them in my germination box and if I use too long of a strand (+25) the temp can exceed 100F easily, even on a cool day.  The rope lights put off more heat I think than the little bulbs.  I seem to remember seeing a picture of someones trunk/crownshaft burning from rope lights being wrapped around it and then covered.  I think the distribution that you get from the many small lights will probably be better than a single 150W bulb but it's really in how you rig your rig.  Good luck.  Boil some water and pour it around the base of your palms in the early morning hours.

[Kathy]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

I'm keeping tabs on all the weather services. The Weather Channel site is the most bleak for my area with an expected low Friday night of 25F! I haven't had a reading that low in a over decade. Nat. Weather Service says 30F for the same night, Weather Underground 30F, and Accuweather 29F.

Yes, Jim, I'd agree that it's been a long time since we've been this cold!  I too have to go back a decade for one reading of 25F, and then clear back to 1979 for another.  I'm expecting 25-26F in my garden, judging by my usual margin from weather.com.  And it's blowing my usual 10a garden in a 9b rated zone  (but the average will still work I suppose).

How long can we leave these protection coverings in place?  Since this is going to maybe last a few days with below freezing temps I'd like to just leave things.

[Kathy]

(MattyB @ Jan. 10 2007,12:08)

QUOTE

I seem to remember seeing a picture of someones trunk/crownshaft burning from rope lights being wrapped around it and then covered.  

Yes, I remember a cooked Roystonea, I believe Jim's in Los Altos.  Turned to mush.  But I think they were left on a long time in direct contact with the trunk.

[spockvr6]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

In a dire situation, I have three turbo kerosine heaters 20,000 btu each that I can stategically place in the coldest parts of my yard, plug in and let their jets blast heat where I need it.

Do you mean 200,000 Btu each?

[spockvr6]

(Kathy @ Jan. 10 2007,12:21)

QUOTE

(MattyB @ Jan. 10 2007,12:08)

QUOTE

I seem to remember seeing a picture of someones trunk/crownshaft burning from rope lights being wrapped around it and then covered.  

Yes, I remember a cooked Roystonea, I believe Jim's in Los Altos.  Turned to mush.  But I think they were left on a long time in direct contact with the trunk.

I have also killed a 9-10 ft Coconut with rope lights when I was overzealous with Christmas decorations

[ghar41]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

I'm keeping tabs on all the weather services. The Weather Channel site is the most bleak for my area with an expected low Friday night of 25F! I haven't had a reading that low in a over decade. Nat. Weather Service says 30F for the same night, Weather Underground 30F, and Accuweather 29F.

Hey Jim!

Thanks for the websites, and glad to hear they are optimistic for your area!

I wish they were as optimistic for mine...NWS 23F...Weather Underground 21F...and Accuweather 23F...not much different than weather.com's 22F.

If these numbers hold true for you and I...it may well define the difference between your 10a and my 9b.  Or maybe more accurately your Sunset 16 and my 14.

Good luck to all Northern Californians!!  Remain optimistic!!   ::

[F Zipperbaum]

Yes, make sure you wrap some type of insulation around the trunk THEN put the xmass lights on and then wrap them again.  Never place lights directly against the trunk........

[rsproule]

Best Christmas String Lights to Use for Heat

The "mini" and LED type x-mas lights that have become popular in the last decade do not produce significant heat.

The old fashioned, screw-in, x-mas lights that have been around forever do produce good heat. You can actually feel the heat if you touch them. They come in two types:

- large, type C9 (9/8" long), rated at 7 watts

- small, type C7 (7/8" long),  rated at 4-7 watts

Obviously the 7 watts string lights produce the best heat.  A dozen being roughly equivalent to a 100-watt bulb. The watt rating is normally stamped onto the metal part of the bulb. These old fashioned lights are getting harder to find, but places like Walmart and Home Depot carry them.

Does anybody know if color makes a difference? I would think the heat output would be the same, but I'm wondering if a certain light color is better for nighttime use. Certain colors may be less confusing for a plant in it's nocturnal state.

Thanks

Ryan, zone 9B, Nor Cal

[Palmy]

At this point its hard  to tell how cold it may go. I hope it doesnt get to 20F, my palms are in big trouble if it does. Thanks for the ideas. I have the huge christmas lights, such as the old ones. Im hoping for the best as the cold starts to come in. Its 50 right now. Im thinking maybe 30F tonight and 26F tomorrow night. Followed by around 22-24F the few nights this weekend, perhaps a little lower here. Im off to the hardware store.

[osideterry]

So far weather.com is predicting 27F Saturday and 29F Sunday for my zipcode, flanked on both sides by 30F lows. My most sensitive palms are rated in the 28-30F range. All are in the 5-15 gallon range and in the ground.

I have rolls of burlap and will try protecting without adding lights or blowdryers. Showers are predicted tomorrow and Friday. Should I wait until the showers pass to wrap with burlap? Without the rain factor I'd just wrap and be done.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your suggestions and good advise. I've  been cutting bamboo stakes all afternoon with my sawzit, a pointey end and a flat end.  It's hard to drive the damn things in the ground.  My man sized sledge hammer is to hard to lift  and a hammer won't do it. <pant>

It's only supposed to get down to near freezing here tonight, but tomorrow the fun begins.  I'm only covering about 6 palms, and I found enough sheets to do it.  I'll add some 150W bulbs at the base and pray.

Dick

[Logolight]

Last night and tonight here in Jacksonville, FL the temps are down to about 5C.  I'm using a regular 100w bulb on a small lamp that's standing in my 3' X 5' green house and it's holding the temperature to about 11-12C.

[Jim in Los Altos]

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 10 2007,09:23)

QUOTE

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

In a dire situation, I have three turbo kerosine heaters 20,000 btu each that I can stategically place in the coldest parts of my yard, plug in and let their jets blast heat where I need it.

Do you mean 200,000 Btu each?

Should have said 100,000 BTU    

[Jim in Los Altos]

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 10 2007,09:24)

QUOTE

(Kathy @ Jan. 10 2007,12:21)

QUOTE

Yes, I remember a cooked Roystonea, I believe Jim's in Los Altos.  Turned to mush.  But I think they were left on a long time in direct contact with the trunk.

I have also killed a 9-10 ft Coconut with rope lights when I was overzealous with Christmas decorations

Yeah,

Those were my prized trunking  R. regias that got turned to steamy stew from those dang rope lights. Now  ??? I only use those things under pots in my small green house to keep the soil nice and warm.

[Jim in Los Altos]

(ghar41 @ Jan. 10 2007,10:09)

QUOTE

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

I'm keeping tabs on all the weather services. The Weather Channel site is the most bleak for my area with an expected low Friday night of 25F! I haven't had a reading that low in a over decade. Nat. Weather Service says 30F for the same night, Weather Underground 30F, and Accuweather 29F.

Hey Jim!

Thanks for the websites, and glad to hear they are optimistic for your area!

I wish they were as optimistic for mine...NWS 23F...Weather Underground 21F...and Accuweather 23F...not much different than weather.com's 22F.

If these numbers hold true for you and I...it may well define the difference between your 10a and my 9b.  Or maybe more accurately your Sunset 16 and my 14.

Good luck to all Northern Californians!!  Remain optimistic!!   ::

Hey Glenn,

I think we're all hoping and praying this Arctic blast loses some punch before it arrives. Two of those weather services that yesterday had me optimistic are now calling Friday night at 26F as was and is Weather Channel.

Only Accuweather is holding on to the 30F figure. That  I can handle.   ...Hope they're the right ones!

At the very least, this cold spell will be a learning experience for us, many of whom have been trying lots of new species, since this is supposed to be the coldest it's been in over ten years. El Nino sure isn't helping the way you'd think it would!

[The Germinator]

I picked up some styrofoam covers at Walmart, I attached a picture for reference, it looks kind of like the one in the drawing. They had 3 different ones.

The large one with a big hole in the middle is good for small Palms with a trunk diamiter up to about 4 inches. I slipped one over my Carpentaria. It covers most of the trunk to about 2 and a half feet.

They also have a Large one with just some vent holes on top. and smaller ones with vent holes. I use these for seedlings of various sizes.

[ghar41]

Hi Ed,

These look great.    

What are they called, and what department of the store did you find them in?

[spockvr6]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 11 2007,03:36)

QUOTE

Those were my prized trunking  R. regias that got turned to steamy stew from those dang rope lights.

Jim-

When I saw the pic you posted of them wrapped tightly in rope lights, I almost made a post about it seeing as how I have damaged a few palms with rope lights (and flat out killed the aforementioned Coconut).  But, I didnt and perhaps I should have.

If one has the older style non-LED rope lights (which are preferred for heat), then one has to be a bit more careful with how tightly they are strung.

I still wrap the palms with lights for Christmas, but after past lessons have learned what I can and cant do

A great barrier between the rope lights and the palm crownshafts is fiberglass screen (like used on a patio).  This material can stay on for weeks/months without retaining moisture, and they also prevent direct contact between the rope light and the tender parts of the palm.

On the gray wood parts of a palm, as long as one didnt go completely nuts with the rope lights, there is no problem.

[spockvr6]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 11 2007,03:31)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 10 2007,09:23)

QUOTE

(Jim in Los Altos @ Jan. 10 2007,00:46)

QUOTE

In a dire situation, I have three turbo kerosine heaters 20,000 btu each that I can stategically place in the coldest parts of my yard, plug in and let their jets blast heat where I need it.

Do you mean 200,000 Btu each?

Should have said 100,000 BTU    

Ok...makes more sense!

I have a bunch of forced air propane heaters and from some quick tests Ive done, 20,000 BTU wont do much

100,000 BTU will cover a respectable area (as long as its not too windy).  

My heaters range in size from 150,000 to 36,000 BTU/HR.   I think all told they add up to about 600,000-700,000 Btu/hr.  If it were to be very cold with wind, this would be very minimal heat for even my small yard.  But, I could sure blow through a few hundred bucks in propane in a short period  

I have these on hand just in case a really bad one hits.  Other than that, I dont plan to use them.

[Palmy]

44F right now. 47F in downtown orinda. Still frost in the shady areas from this morning at 2:30Pm.

Thanks for the ideas. I have put lights aroudn the trunks and I have some frame and I put double black bags on them, not touching the leaves. It got to a low of 28F this morning and the lowest in the bag was 34.5F.

[ghar41]

(The Germinator @ Jan. 11 2007,05:57)

QUOTE

I picked up some styrofoam covers at Walmart, I attached a picture for reference, it looks kind of like the one in the drawing. They had 3 different ones.

The large one with a big hole in the middle is good for small Palms with a trunk diamiter up to about 4 inches. I slipped one over my Carpentaria. It covers most of the trunk to about 2 and a half feet.

They also have a Large one with just some vent holes on top. and smaller ones with vent holes. I use these for seedlings of various sizes.

I found these at our local Walmart also.  

They are designed especially for plants and are reasonably priced, at about $3.50 each.  They covered really well for my smaller cycads but I was also able to cover a small P. sunka with one.  It looks promising.

Thanks for the lead!    

[GREENHAND]

these queens did ok the last cold snap, it went down to 20.deg . the tops did burn a little but otherwise they growing fine.

[Kathy]

So far no freeze, thank the heavens!  37F  for a low this am here.  Now instead of projecting 3 nights of ridiculous cold, it's just one night projected of record cold.  Let's hope they are wrong again.

[PalmGuyWC]

At my place in Walnut Creek, it was 25F in an open sky area and the ground had a crust on it from the frost.  Next to a "protected" palm with a sheet thrown over it (over a bamboo frame) it was 28.5 F on the other side of the palm from a 100 W light with a reflector, but the ground was soft and not frozen. (yet)

Kathy, I don't trust the "offical" temps. that the weather people publish.  The official temp. in Walnut Creek is several degrees above what I have.  It seems I'm always a little colder or hotter than the official temps.

I'm afraid the true test will come tonight (Jan, 12, '07).

Dick

[Kathy]

Yes, Dick, you are right.  I'm just shocked at how wrong they can be.  We actually had a low in the night of 34F, but that's still a long way off from the 26 or so projected.  We were windy which helped.  Sorry about your 25F.  I always thought Walnut Creek was warmer than Brentwood.

My palms are staying protected just in case.

Greenhand, how long do you leave your coverings on, max?

[PalmGuyWC]

Kathy,

I'm sure the wind made a big difference.  There was not a breath of air movement here.  Just after dusk here you could almost see the temps. dropping.....and I panicked, but more about that in another thread.

Dick

[GREENHAND]

i will take the blankets off when the lows are above 32 deg , they are small and easy to wrap up.

[Neofolis]

This may sound like a silly question, but do plants generate any of their own heat?  Obviously I wouldn't expect them to generate as much as warm blooded mammals, but if they metabolise, etc., I would expect some energy to be converted to heat, however minimal.  If this is the case then sufficient insulation, through blankets, towels, straw or whatever other material, should alleviate the need for lights or other heat sources.  Protection from moisture would also be important for the insulation to be most effective.

[Jim in Los Altos]

(Neofolis @ Jan. 12 2007,09:19)

QUOTE

This may sound like a silly question, but do plants generate any of their own heat?  Obviously I wouldn't expect them to generate as much as warm blooded mammals, but if they metabolise, etc., I would expect some energy to be converted to heat, however minimal.  If this is the case then sufficient insulation, through blankets, towels, straw or whatever other material, should alleviate the need for lights or other heat sources.  Protection from moisture would also be important for the insulation to be most effective.

There are, of course, cold blooded animals that motabolize as well. Plants don't produce heat. In fact with water transpiring from their leaves, there's actually a small but measureable cooling effect. It'd be pretty neat if there was something we could feed our palms that would enable them to produce some heat.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Accuweather has been spot-on with their 5-day temperature forcasts for Los Altos for quite a while. Several other weather sites had predicted our low for last night between 26F and 28F. Accuweather predicted 31F for Los Altos and that turned out to be almost the 32F that we had. Tonight they predict 30F which is higher by an average of 4F than all the other's predictions. Hope they're right again!

[Kathy]

I hope you are right with Accuweather Jim.  I'd like to trust them.  Then I'm only looking at 28F, and I can deal with that.  Other sites have us all over the map.  Amazing how far apart the forecasts can be for the same place and time.

Would you say simple wrapping only adds a degree or two of protection without heatsource?

[iwan]

Hope you guys with the more tropical stuff are spared.  Low this morning (mourning) 19.6F (-7C).  Temp at 1830 is 31.1F.  

Coldest I have recorded since 98. NWS Madera had a low of 22F. My most conservative/protected thermometer bottomed at 23.3F. 1/4" ice, even my 35g heavy black rubber watering trough/pond sitting on south facing concrete patio next to the house had some ice on it. It hasn't frozen since 98. After driving 20 miles to work at 9AM, I still had some ice on my hood and roof.  Pond on north side of house (full shade) still frozen at sunset today.

What is more concerning was the temp at the crown of my king palm this morning was 23.9F. So far this winter the crown has never seen less than 28.3F with protection. I think the wind negated most of the effect of the rope lights and overhead canopy. Tonight I will fire up the BBQ and throw it under the canopy. My wife is very attached to this palm, so I am going to do whatever I can to help it survive.  Looks like all of the fronds were damaged overnight.  Hopefully this will survive.

Forcast low for tomorrow is 18F (-8C).

[spockvr6]

(Kathy @ Jan. 12 2007,17:14)

QUOTE

Would you say simple wrapping only adds a degree or two of protection without heatsource?

Id say it adds zero.  But, it can help keep foliage protected.

[spockvr6]

(Kathy @ Jan. 12 2007,17:14)

QUOTE

I hope you are right with Accuweather Jim.  I'd like to trust them.  

I would also like to trust them....but they are almost always off over here.  

But, I do agree that they are almost always the most optimistic forecasters (or should I say the most optimistic computers since I believe their forecasts are pretty much computer model generated)?

[Zac in NC]

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 10 2007,12:24)

QUOTE

(Kathy @ Jan. 10 2007,12:21)

QUOTE

(MattyB @ Jan. 10 2007,12:08)

QUOTE

I seem to remember seeing a picture of someones trunk/crownshaft burning from rope lights being wrapped around it and then covered.  

Yes, I remember a cooked Roystonea, I believe Jim's in Los Altos.  Turned to mush.  But I think they were left on a long time in direct contact with the trunk.

I have also killed a 9-10 ft Coconut with rope lights when I was overzealous with Christmas decorations

I killed a baby Trachycarpus back in late 2002. I was over zealous with C-5 Christmas lights(2 strands) and much insulation. Taost. Hope you guys make it through alright. Wish you could have the 50 degrees I have right now.

Zac