How to identify young Roystonea oleracea (from R. regia)?

[stygiana]

Hello Everybody,

I looked for it first in the forum before asking this, but none of the former topics about R. oleracea helped me in any way (or maybe I searched badly, what I am quite capable of... ).

My problem is that I'd like very much to plant three oleracea, but the only nursery here which has got identified specimens only sells big (and expensive) ones.

Another nursery had a great collection of palms several years ago (you can see the catalogue in pdf with Acrobat on the following link : http://www.renderonesia.com/vivero/precios/palmeras/palmprec.htm) and they still have quite a few nice and / or rare palm trees.

Unfortunately, the owner had a very serious health problem and lost his memory. The children are in charge now, but do not have the knowledge their dad had, so there is a lot of confusion now, labels were lost, and they cannot tell me which one of their young Roystoneas are R. oleracea or R. regia... I can identify them quite easily when they are big enough : oleracea's leave seem to droop only to right angle with the trunk, no lower, while regia's droop well below. Besides, oleracea seems less plumose.

But these charateristics do not seem to work on 2 to 3 m tall babies (6,5 to 10 feeet tall).

Many thanks to anybody who could help.

Sebastian

[DoomsDave]

Sebastian!

Nice to meet you!

Hmm.

You ask a hard question.

I've raised dozens of baby roystoneas in my time, and they're tough to tell apart when small. They're all vertical, fast growing grassy things.

That said, if you have both regia and oleracea and can wait a few months, they're easy to tell apart. The ollies are bigger, fatter and faster in every way. They literally grow twice as fast as regias, at least. In the winter, if it's cold enough, the ollies yellow up as soon as the temps fall below about 55F at night.

But, that's not much help, I think if you're shopping in a nursery.

You might want to shoot an e-mail to Jeff at Floribunda palms and ask if he has any ideas. He also sells the plants, and ships worldwide.

Perhaps one of our other stalwarts can offer more specific advice.

I'm curious, too.

[Daryl]

Hi Sebastian, when they are younger, R.oleracea have broader leaflets than R.regia. The petioles also have a lot of red colouration. These are my observations from local pants here...maybe this variation doesn't occur in other areas with different stock? Hope this helps.

Daryl

[stygiana]

Thank you Dave and Daryl,

I'll check carefully the colour of the petioles and the width of the leaflets, it could actually help.

Unfortunately, Jeff Marcus hasn't got them on his 2011 spring list... It's sad because I am going to make another order soon...

But I can take advantage of my order to ask him if he's got any idea / way to tell them apart when young.

I keep on searching on other websites and in my books. I'll come up if I find anything worth it.

Sebastian

[Mandrew968]

I know what I would look for if I were discerning--Regia has a plumose leaf. Oleracea has a bipinate leaf. If the leaflets are growing from more than one plane, then that's not the one to get!

[Walter John]

I had to ask this question myself about 8 months ago. The red coloration is the best way to decipher, trouble is, I bought three and one didn't have the reddish petioles and stem, so we'll see. Andrew is right about the plumose leaflets but that doesn't happen till further on with age after juvenile.

[stygiana]

Thanks Andrew and Wal,

I'm not sure if I noticed any red colouration on these palms, so maybe they only have R. regia... I'll have a closer look.

Isn't the petiole longer on regia compared to oleracea? Does this work with juvenile specimens?

[Mandrew968]

Not sure Roystonea has much of a petiole in ANY species... When in doubt, anticipate it to be a regia--they are the most common. You can always order a small one or two online--they grow quite quickly...

[Tyrone]

Thanks Andrew and Wal,

I'm not sure if I noticed any red colouration on these palms, so maybe they only have R. regia... I'll have a closer look.

Isn't the petiole longer on regia compared to oleracea? Does this work with juvenile specimens?

R oleracea definitely can have more colour in the new spear, but it may be a shade of red to brown etc, whereas regia doesn't do anything much more than green. I don't know how juvenile your plants are but oleracea will have wider leaflets than regia and they will be in a flat plane for longer, whereas regia will go plumose much earlier. I can't think of any more defining marks except for maybe oleracea having a bit of black flecking on the petiole and midrib, but this may be a variable feature right through Roystonea anyway. As R oleracea gets older it tends to lose the coloured new spear thing a bit. Mine just pushes out dark green now. In a suitable climate R oleracea is a bigger plant than regia.

I don't know how petiole length compares with juveniles. Light levels can have an impact there.

Best regards

Tyrone

[DoomsDave]

Even as babies, the ollies outgrow the reggies. The difference in growth rate is obvious almost from the get-go. Even here in La La Land, where the ollies croak, they grew like heck when they did live.

As I've indicated before, if you actually have a variety, you can usually them apart. The problem is that if you have just one species, there's no real basis for comparison.