La Conchita, California - could it be a "holy grail" area for Cocos nucifera ???

[trioderob]

"La Conchita is a small unincorporated community in western Ventura County, California, on U.S. Route 101 just southeast of the Santa Barbara county line.....................

Although horticultural authorities maintained that bananas could not be commercially grown in California, Richardson and Turner proved them wrong by cultivating over 50 exotic varieties. The unique microclimate of the community's location was ideal for this purpose. Many subsequent generations of bananas "

holy grail area ?????

Edited May 13, 2011 by trioderob

[MattyB]

It doesn't freeze because it's right on the beach. So is Vancouver, BC but you can't grow Coconuts there.

[paulgila]

how do you know,matt? have you ever tried?

[trioderob]

It doesn't freeze because it's right on the beach. So is Vancouver, BC but you can't grow Coconuts there.

its a little bit further south

like 1200 miles further

[MattyB]

So is San Diego. How're those Coconuts doing down here?

[paulgila]

i suggest we put together an expedition--sponsored by ths IPS & affiliated groups,of course--& search out this "holy grail area for cocos nucifera."

i nominate myself as intrepid expedition leader.matt will be in charge of logistics & snacks. triode,you will be chief medical officer.

lets roll.

[trioderob]

notice how this spot is different then san diego

its clear as day in this photo

Brother bought a coconut, he bought it for a dime

His sister had another one, she paid it for a lime.

She put the lime in the coconut, she drank them both up

She put the lime in the coconut, she drank them both up

She put the lime in the coconut, she drank them both up

She put the lime in the coconut, she called the doctor, woke him up,

And said, "Doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take,

I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache?

I say, Doctor, ain't there nothin' I can take,

I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache?"

"Now let me get this straight ",

Put the lime in the coconut, you drank them both up

Put the lime in the coconut, you drank them both up

Put the lime in the coconut, you drank them both up

Put the lime in the coconut, you called your doctor, woke him up,

And say, 'Doctor, ain't there nothing I can take,

I say, Doctor, to relieve this belly ache?

Edited May 13, 2011 by trioderob

[paulgila]

nice song.did you write it or find it on the internet somewhere & re-post it here?

[trioderob]

if you had to make a bet with your own money which way would you bet ?

(notice I did not re quote you)

Edited May 13, 2011 by trioderob

[MattyB]

What, the water is bluer?

So Malibu, Palos Verdes, Laguna Beach, Cardiff, La Jolla, Border Field Park all should have coconuts growing fine according to that topographical logic.

[Kim]

I hear the State of Hawaii is infested with Cocos nucifera. They sprout indiscriminately everywhere. (Not so many bananas, though. ratio has to be like 10-to-1.) Maybe you should direct your expedition westward, across the great Pacific Ocean, where lies the holy grail of Cocos nucifera. You can all dress like Indiana Jones and eat some good wasabi poke. Then go visit Floribunda and find some real holy grail palms...

[paulgila]

expedition awaaaaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

I think that banamas can be raised in the right parts of San Diego, or Newport Beach, where a coconut can be made to grow.

I'd certainly try a Coco in Conchita.

La Conchita has a terrible problem, though. It's prone to NASTY landslides, like one that took place a few years ago, see if I can dig up info on it.

I seriously considered buying there (in a loonier moment) but the distance brought me down, and the landslides brought me down further.

[trioderob]

What, the water is bluer?

So Malibu, Palos Verdes, Laguna Beach, Cardiff, La Jolla, Border Field Park all should have coconuts growing fine according to that topographical logic.

Matt-

glad you asked.

there is just something special that one spot

Banana Boom : Warm 'Microclimate' Makes Tropical Fruit Thrive on Southland Plantation

July 9, 1990 | PSYCHE PASCUAL, TIMES STAFF WRITER

Along U.S. 101 near the Ventura-Santa Barbara county line lies a small tropical paradise that for years has astonished weather analysts and farmers. Tucked between the ocean and 300-foot-high bluffs is a place called La Conchita, a seaside community that is also the home of the only commercial banana plantation in the continental United States, according to the International Banana Assn. There, 10,000 banana trees are fanned by balmy ocean breezes, basking in an island of frost-free weather.

September 24, 1997 | BRENDA LOREE, SPECIAL TO THE TIMES

It's no accident that Doug Richardson's Seaside Banana Gardens, an 11-acre farm that hugs the coast a dozen miles north of Ventura, is a novelty even in fruitful California. Southern California's coastal climate may be mild compared to Nebraska's, but only pockets of it are mild enough to grow truly tropical fruit like bananas. "This is a unique microclimate," said Richardson, pointing to his grove, the only commercial banana farm in the western United States

its a "unique microclimate" bro

Edited May 13, 2011 by trioderob

[DoomsDave]

And if you see my reflection

On the mud covered hill

CLICK HERE FOR WIKIPEDIA LINK

[trioderob]

[MattyB]

The only reason it's unique is that there's enough undeveloped acreage to have a banana farm. There are many spots that the same thing could be done but there's a gazillion houses already built there. It's romantic, but not unique climactically.

I believe that La Conchita falls in the warmer parts of Sunset Zone 24.

ZONE 24: Marine influence along the Southern California coast

Stretched along Southern Californias beaches, this climate zone is almost completely dominated by the ocean. Where the beach runs along high cliffs or palisades, Zone 24 extends only to that barrier. But where hills are low or nonexistent, it runs inland several miles.

This zone has a mild marine climate (milder than Northern Californias maritime Zone 17) because south of Point Conception, the Pacific is comparatively warm. The winters are mild, the summers cool, and the air seldom really dry. On many days in spring and early summer, the sun doesnt break through the high overcast until afternoon. Tender perennials like geraniums and impatiens rarely go out of bloom here; spathiphyllums and pothos become outdoor plants; and tender palms are safe from killing frosts. In this climate, gardens that include such plants as ornamental figs, rubber trees, and scheffleras can become jungles.

Zone 24 is coldest at the mouths of canyons that channel cold air down from the mountains on clear winter nights. Several such canyons between Laguna Beach and San Clemente are visible on the map. Numerous others touch the coast between San Clemente and the Mexican border. Partly because of the unusually low temperatures created by this canyon action, there is a broad range of winter lows in Zone 24. Winter lows average from 42°F (5°C) in Santa Barbara to 48°F (9°C) in San Diego. Extreme cold averages from 35° to 28°F (2 to 2°C), with all-time lows in the coldest stations at about 20°F (6°C).

The all-time high temperatures arent greatly significant in terms of plant growth. The average all-time high of weather stations in Zone 24 is 105°F (41°C). Record heat usually comes in early October, carried to the coast by Santa Ana winds. The winds power and dryness usually causes more problems than the heat itselfbut you can ameliorate scorching with frequent sprinkling.

In approximately the same area but farther inland is Camarillo which is known for some Mango development. Zone 23 benefits from more heat but can sometimes suffer from colder lows if you're not up on a hill.

ZONE 23: Thermal belts of Southern Californias coastal climate

One of the most favored areas in North America for growing subtropical plants, Zone 23 has always been Southern Californias best zone for avocados. Frosts dont amount to much here, because 85 percent of the time, Pacific Ocean weather dominates; interior air rules only 15 percent of the time. A notorious portion of this 15 percent consists of those days when hot, dry Santa Ana winds blow. Zone 23 lacks either the summer heat or the winter cold necessary to grow pears, most apples, and most peaches. But it enjoys considerably more heat than Zone 24enough to put the sweetness in Valencia oranges, for examplebut not enough for Washington naval oranges, which are grown farther inland. Temperatures are mild here, but severe winters descend at times. Average lows range from 43 to 48°F (6 to 9°C), while extreme lows average from 34 to 27°F (1 to 3°C).

Either way, La Conchita isn't gonna make a coconut grow.

[Matt in SD]

I'm skeptical that the climate is really that unique there, vs. someone just had the balls to try to set up a commercial banana plantation in a favorable SoCal microclimate. I grow >20 banana varieties in both a great (old house) and not so great (new house) microclimate in San Diego. They grow like weeds and fruit like crazy in both places. In the bad microclimate they get burned every few winters by frost, but have a full head of leaves again by spring. In the good microclimate I never had any damage, including in the 2007 "freeze".

There are some varieties of bananas that we've had fruit in ~9 months from a small pup, and I've had crops from a single tree that were in the 75 pound range. It's all about fertilizer and irrigation. The biggest barrier, I think, to growing bananas commercially in Calfornia is the cost of land and water and labor...not climate.

Anyways, I'm sure it's a good microclimate. But there are lots of good microclimates in SoCal, and a few have been artificially pumped up by the people living there, but I really don't believe there are lots of frost free, great microclimates around that no one talks about.

Matt

[DoomsDave]

[paulgila]

dave,you forgot "my buried coconut palms."

[MattyB]

[DoomsDave]

I glommed that pic off a hot chick's website (who still lives in LC), so that's her markings on the picture.

Which should be credited to the Associated Press.

And the Hot Chick of LC

[trioderob]

Well the landslide brought me down..............................

[paulgila]

I glommed that pic off a hot chick's website (who still lives in LC), so that's her markings on the picture.

Which should be credited to the Associated Press.

And the Hot Chick of LC

a perfect example of the kind of tragic misunderstandings that can happen when you post un-credited photos

by someone else.

[Takil-Explorer]

Well the first bananas in Europe for fruits where grown in the south eastern part of Spain, somewhere in Murcia. And they used irigation to grow them. Probably among date palms for shelter.

Alexander

[MattyB]

It's all fun and games until someone gets an uncredited photo put out.

[DoomsDave]

And I posted to the forum

In the palm society

How the landslide brought me down

Oh-ho, the landslide brought me down

[Eddie Spagetti]

From what I understand the aforementioned banana farmer Doug Richardson was unfairly blamed, by the people whom he leased the land from, for the landslide. More info in this LA Times article Banana Grower Slipped Up by Legal Wrangling. Dunno, woulda figured the musa roots would help to mitigate the risk of a slide rather than cause it, but then again I'm no geologist.

"The banana farm not only survived but flourished, bolstered by a unique tropical climate that combines balmy ocean breezes and frost-free weather."

I live ~1 mile from Pauleen Sullivan's place and just down the 101 from La Conchita. I am blessed with a similar micro-climate and grow ~25 banana varieties in my backyard; currently 8 hanging bunches from 6 different cultivars. Recently after seeing some of Pauleen's stuff it seemed like a waste to not venture further into palms with said climate. One benefit of getting into bananas before palms is the great canopies I got goin for me

[MattyB]

"Balmy ocean breezes"? Come on people! Who writes this stuff? That's the exact opposite of the truth.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Yeah. What's balmy about breezes coming off of 60F (15C) ocean water?

[Jim in Los Altos]

Hey, bananas will fruit way up here too and I've harvested quite a few myself but FORGET ABOUT GROWING COCOS!

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

The difference between climates where bananas and Coconuts grow are like.... well compareing apples to oranges.

My banana plants here in Modesto produce great tasting fruit every year.... Coconut plants die by mid Dec, here due to the prolong winter chill... chill that bananas can deal with because they kinda hibernate.... And because our winter lows arent to severe.

From my garden....

Jeff

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

How 'bout mangoes, breadfruit & mangosteen. must be lilliputian meccas for those annoyingly tender fruits also.

Should be easy to find cocoanuts there, as they're relatively tall plants.

Good exploratory mission. Keep us posted!

PD

[Geoff]

I remember visiting that banana farm in the 90s, just a few years before they had to close up shop and go, and the guy there did say they had some nasty frosts that damaged a lot of their bananas on several occasions... so not sure what the 'no freeze' thing is. Also, it is never warm there... always cool... though it does have some weather stability that seems pretty nice (from a human point of view... not a coconut's point of view i doubt). But every time I visited that banana farm (I got a lot of banana plants from that guy) it was down right chilly and incredibly windy. By the way, almost all the bananas I bought from him grew fine in downtown Thousand oaks, definitely NOT the holy grail of climates (we did have a few tough freezes in 10 years, but nothing that actually killed a banana).

[brodklop]

Loved your post Matt in #17.

It has been said in other topics a number of times for coconuts to grow successfully they need a daytime temp of 20 Celsius or above in the coldest months.

Here in Sth Queensland coconuts grow in inland places where frost can be a problem but the day time temps generally reach 20c or more.

So to conclude, the max temp is the important one. Obviously heavy frost will be a problem. Light frost will damage leaves but the tree will quickly recover.

This is why warm temperate areas like Sth California or Sydney will struggle to grow coconuts.

[DoomsDave]

Some bananas will fruit in ILLINOIS!

[Walter John]

Good soil type, free draining, I bet transplanting would be a cinch. The whole joint is a little too rectangular for my liking. Cocos nucifera sp.La Conchita has a nice sound to it. I bet Gileno doesn't have that one.

Anybody been there ? or should I say, has anyone gone there and returned ?

[DoomsDave]

Good soil type, free draining, I bet transplanting would be a cinch. The whole joint is a little too rectangular for my liking. Cocos nucifera sp.La Conchita has a nice sound to it. I bet Gileno doesn't have that one.

Anybody been there ? or should I say, has anyone gone there and returned ?

I've been there three times. Once in 2001, with my father and mother, in 2000 with my younger brother, and in 2010 on the way to Santa Barbara.

It's just a wide spot in the road, with a little general store, and, if i recall, a filling station.

Hamlet is the right term. A charmingly uncharming place, in its way. The surroundings overwhelm it. There are not many places left in Southern California that have that isolation that you experience in LC, with the combination of the ocean and hills nearby. Everyplace else is all developed, except Camp Pendleton near SD.

I'm sure you can have banana plantations in a lot of areas near the ocean in So-Cal, but the cost of land is so high that it makes no economic sense.

[pogobob]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to scrap ice off my surf board when dawn patolling Rincon Point about a mile north of La Conchita!

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

[garrin]

Some bananas will fruit in ILLINOIS!

Dave, maybe that was tongue-in-cheek, but I fruited bananas in Illinois when I was a teenager, as did my grandmother. A neighbor of hers in Central IL still cultivates a banana grove there. The problem is that they must be dug each fall, but then just laid down with plastic wrap on the rootball (a very small rootball will suffice) in a cool place like a basment for the winter. By replanting into the same holes with some fertilizer in the spring they take off right from where they stopped in the fall. Good fruit, too!