Is there ONE species of palm that WILL NOT grow in Hawaii?

[DoomsDave]

It appears to me that any palm species there is will grow somewhere in Hawaii, including the Big Island, which (correct me if I'm wrong) has the greatest diversity of habitats.

Howabout it Hawaiians?

Any species you just can't grow there? Anywhere? (In Hawaii?)

I suspect this will be a short thread . . . .

[Dypsisdean]

Dave,

I'll go out on a limb and say that if you could amend the soil to your specs, and had irrigation, that you could find a location in Hawaii that would grow any palm of your choice.

Is that list short enough for you?

[dan.vagnoni]

juania?

[trioderob]

lets see them grow a palm like THIS in Hawaii !

[Walter John]

Hyophorbe amaricaulis

[DoomsDave]

Dave,

I'll go out on a limb and say that if you could amend the soil to your specs, and had irrigation, that you could find a location in Hawaii that would grow any palm of your choice.

Is that list short enough for you?

I suspect you're right.

Let's let the other Hawaii habitues weigh in!

[Dypsisdean]

juania?

You had to pick a palm of which Wikipedia says - "It is extremely rare in cultivation and only one mature tree grows outside its natural habitat."

But I would say, Upslope windward Big Island at around 3500 ft would be as good as place as any. Volcanic, trade winds, cool and never hot, but with a warm ocean current creating frequent "foggy" conditions - the same as habitat - and Ireland where the one mature specimen is.

[Justin]

lets see them grow a palm like THIS in Hawaii !

I got a picture of this in Hawaiian Acres a couple months back:

Which makes me think that a Jubaea almost certainly could grow exceptionally well in certain places - Waimea and Kula are two that immediately spring to mind.

[Dypsisdean]

lets see them grow a palm like THIS in Hawaii !

The question was "will they grow." And I have no doubts there are places a Jubeae would grow great in Hawaii. Now, if the question was "are there species that will grow better somewhere else than Hawaii?" - then the list would be longer. But shorter than any place else on Earth.

Edit: Thanks for the pic Justin. I'm surprised they grow so well there. You are right, Waimea or Kula would be a little better, or even slightly upslope Kohala would be a little warmer, sunnier, and and not as wet and humid as the other locations.

[bgl]

I agree with Dean. With the amazing range of rainfall, from almost zero, to several hundred inches per year in various locations, and with elevations as high as you can possibly grow palms, plus lots of different types of soil, I don't believe there's any palm that could not be grown successfully here in Hawaii.

[newcal]

Guys,is there anyone over there growing Medemia argun,Livistona eastonii and inermis and Hydriastele ramsayii successfully as they have specific cultural conditions to grow (long extended dry season,high temps even in winter and low humidity with a short but intense wet season)? Just interested! ...thanks Mike Green(Newcal)

[Darold Petty]

I concur with Mike. I doubt there could ever be a successful Medemia in Hawaii.

[mike in kurtistown]

The problem for us Hawaiians is that, even if the general conclusion is correct (except maybe for Medemia?), we each live in our specific environments, and have to accept local conditions. Maybe something can thrive in desert-like conditions of Ka'u District or in dry mountains somewhere on the west coast of Hawaii Island, but I live in rainy Puna District.

[Dypsisdean]

I concur with Mike. I doubt there could ever be a successful Medemia in Hawaii.

As I stated in my first response, if you have irrigation, and the ability to amend the soil to your specific requirements, I don't see why Medemia couldn't be grown in some of the hot "deserty" areas where cactus have been shown to thrive. These areas are over 90+ degrees F in summer, and while not arid, are a lot less humid than other areas.

[sonoranfans]

The problem for us Hawaiians is that, even if the general conclusion is correct (except maybe for Medemia?), we each live in our specific environments, and have to accept local conditions. Maybe something can thrive in desert-like conditions of Ka'u District or in dry mountains somewhere on the west coast of Hawaii Island, but I live in rainy Puna District.

This is really he crux of the argument. If you choose to live in puna, you will not be growing the hyphaenes, dry loving livistonas, braheas, borassus, and date palms etc. If you live in kona, and have plenty of irrigation($$?) perhaps alot of things are possible. No yard will grow them all, bluish palms will not be the ones in puna, and the rainforest types will be more difficult in Kona. Hawaii has terrific diversity in climate, but that diversity will not be possible on a single plot of land.

[Dypsisdean]

The problem for us Hawaiians is that, even if the general conclusion is correct (except maybe for Medemia?), we each live in our specific environments, and have to accept local conditions. Maybe something can thrive in desert-like conditions of Ka'u District or in dry mountains somewhere on the west coast of Hawaii Island, but I live in rainy Puna District.

This is really he crux of the argument. If you choose to live in puna, you will not be growing the hyphaenes, dry loving livistonas, braheas, borassus, and date palms etc. If you live in kona, and have plenty of irrigation($$?) perhaps alot of things are possible. No yard will grow them all, bluish palms will not be the ones in puna, and the rainforest types will be more difficult in Kona. Hawaii has terrific diversity in climate, but that diversity will not be possible on a single plot of land.

Yes Tom,

That is why this is a exercise in futility. I live in Kona where I get 60" of rain a year, and have irrigation when needed. And as is, my three acres is not near enough land to grow all the species I can grow here. I am rapidly running out of room and can think of hundreds of more species I would like to be growing.

In other words, even if you could find that fantasy location that would grow them all, it would be more than a lifetime project to do so.

[Xenon]

The problem for us Hawaiians is that, even if the general conclusion is correct (except maybe for Medemia?), we each live in our specific environments, and have to accept local conditions. Maybe something can thrive in desert-like conditions of Ka'u District or in dry mountains somewhere on the west coast of Hawaii Island, but I live in rainy Puna District.

This is really he crux of the argument. If you choose to live in puna, you will not be growing the hyphaenes, dry loving livistonas, braheas, borassus, and date palms etc. If you live in kona, and have plenty of irrigation($?) perhaps alot of things are possible. No yard will grow them all, bluish palms will not be the ones in puna, and the rainforest types will be more difficult in Kona. Hawaii has terrific diversity in climate, but that diversity will not be possible on a single plot of land.

Bo has Hyphaene, Borassus, and Phoenix growing in Lundkvist Palm Garden Malama(in the Puna district), of course these palms will probably grow faster in Kona, which gets more heat.

Jonathan

Edited March 5, 2011 by Xenon

[Dypsisdean]

The problem for us Hawaiians is that, even if the general conclusion is correct (except maybe for Medemia?), we each live in our specific environments, and have to accept local conditions. Maybe something can thrive in desert-like conditions of Ka'u District or in dry mountains somewhere on the west coast of Hawaii Island, but I live in rainy Puna District.

This is really he crux of the argument. If you choose to live in puna, you will not be growing the hyphaenes, dry loving livistonas, braheas, borassus, and date palms etc. If you live in kona, and have plenty of irrigation($?) perhaps alot of things are possible. No yard will grow them all, bluish palms will not be the ones in puna, and the rainforest types will be more difficult in Kona. Hawaii has terrific diversity in climate, but that diversity will not be possible on a single plot of land.

Bo has Hyphaene, Borassus, and Phoenix growing in Lundkvist Palm Garden Malama(in the Puna district), of course these palms will probably grow faster in Kona, which gets more heat.

Jonathan

You guys need to remember that Kona has many climates ranging from dry/hot coastal beaches, to the perfect "coffee belt" climate," to cool cloud forest - all within a 15 minute drive upslope. Then another 10 minutes to above the clouds and timberline to the end of the road at a mile high. Then the volcano continues up past 8000 ft where it has been known to snow - all in Kona.

[mjff]

You guys need to remember that Kona has many climates ranging from dry/hot coastal beaches, to the perfect "coffee belt" climate," to cool cloud forest - all within a 15 minute drive upslope. Then another 10 minutes to above the clouds and timberline to the end of the road at a mile high. Then the volcano continues up past 8000 ft where it has been known to snow - all in Kona.

Us Texans get the same climate difference without having to move an inch. Just wait a few days. Last month we saw temperatures in the low teens, low 90's and everything in between, calm winds, 50 mph winds, rain, mist, snow, sleet, ice, frost, dew, fog and freezing fog all within a 2 week period in the same spot. Some of the defoliated palms (Washingtonias and Sabals) are already pushing new growth after several days with low's in the 50's and highs in the 80's and 90's. Others the 90's just caused the few fronds that were left on to die. It is amazing how long the damage from a freeze can take to show up on some of these cold hardy species. It's been a month now, and some plants are still losing fronds that it appeared a week ago had made it.

I posted a photo of a Butia eriospatha last weekend that only had a spear pull, this week it is completely defoliated.

[epicure3]

Any palm that I plant in HI will not grow.

[Darold Petty]

I like that photo of xeric plants in post # 14 !

[Dypsisdean]

I like that photo of xeric plants in post # 14 !

Darold,

That is in Koko Head Crater Botanical Garden. Here is what is said about it.

"Koko Crater Botanical Garden is a 60-acre basin inside the landmark Koko Crater on the eastern end of the island of Oahu. The hot, dry climate here makes this garden the ideal location for the dryland collections of the Honolulu Botanical Gardens."

The collection includes:

Cacti

Alluaudias

Sansevierias

Baobabs

Dryland Palms

Aloes

Euphorbias

Adeniums

[garrin]

juania?

There is always an altitude choice plus a choice of rainfall patterns on this island. I would venture a guess that even Juania and Jubea would grow beautifully here in the right location.

[Mandrew968]

Jubea hates humidity. I have never been to Hawaii, but is there really a place where there is no humidity?! Is anyone growing a Jubea in a humid place? That would be worthy of note...

[bgl]

About Medemia - I understand they're doing exceedingly well at Nong Nooch in Thailand. If they grow well there, I have to assume there must be places here in Hawaii where Medemia could be grown. And about Jubaea - well, Justin's photo in post #8 (second photo) certainly would indicate that not only can Jubaea be grown in Hawaii, but they can even be grown here in the district of Puna (high rainfall area).

[Geoff]

Is anyone growing Parajubaeas in Hawaii? I still down Juania can be grown there... they hardly grow anywhere.

[sarasota alex]

It seems that Jubaeas don't like the humidity in combination with summer heat. Both Sochi in Southern Russia and Sukhumi in the Abkhazia region of Georgia have higher humidity and more rainfall than South Florida, but average only about 4 days a year when temperatures reach 86F or above. Jubaeas flourish there. There are some Jubs in Sukhumi that have been growing there since the 19th Century. Also the climate there is the opposite of the monsoon climate we have here in Florida, where summers there are relatively dry and winters are extremely wet.

[Dypsisdean]

Is anyone growing Parajubaeas in Hawaii? I still down Juania can be grown there... they hardly grow anywhere.

I have a P. 'tor tor' that's as happy as any I have seen anywhere.

[trioderob]

here is a little side note related to the topic:

so Hawaii can grow many more types of palms than southern california.

there no debate on this point.

But I have read that in southern california you can grow more types of plants than any other area of the world.

you can have palms, cacti, aloe, hardwood trees , vegetable, citrus and all other

manner of plant life all in one yard.

where else can you do THAT ?

here is an example:

The Huntington Botanical Gardens

In 1903 Henry Huntington purchased the San Marino Ranch, a working ranch with citrus groves, nut and fruit orchards, alfalfa crops, a small herd of cows, and poultry. His superintendent, William Hertrich, was instrumental in developing the various plant collections that comprise the foundation of the botanical gardens. The property—originally nearly 600 acres—today covers 207 acres, of which approximately 120 are landscaped and open to visitors. More than 14,000 different varieties of plants are showcased in more than a dozen principal garden areas. Forty gardeners, a curatorial staff of seven, and more than 100 volunteers maintain the botanical collections, provide interpretive programs for visitors, and propagate plants for special sales

Edited March 7, 2011 by trioderob

[DoomsDave]

here is a little side note related to the topic:

so Hawaii can grow many more types of palms than southern california.

there no debate on this point.

But I have read that in southern california you can grow more types of plants than any other area of the world.

you can have palms, cacti, aloe, hardwood trees , vegetable, citrus and all other

manner of plant life all in one yard.

where else can you do THAT ?

here is an example:

The Huntington Botanical Gardens

In 1903 Henry Huntington purchased the San Marino Ranch, a working ranch with citrus groves, nut and fruit orchards, alfalfa crops, a small herd of cows, and poultry. His superintendent, William Hertrich, was instrumental in developing the various plant collections that comprise the foundation of the botanical gardens. The property—originally nearly 600 acres—today covers 207 acres, of which approximately 120 are landscaped and open to visitors. More than 14,000 different varieties of plants are showcased in more than a dozen principal garden areas. Forty gardeners, a curatorial staff of seven, and more than 100 volunteers maintain the botanical collections, provide interpretive programs for visitors, and propagate plants for special sales

That would indeed be an interesting comparison!

[Dypsisdean]

here is a little side note related to the topic:

so Hawaii can grow many more types of palms than southern california.

there no debate on this point.

But I have read that in southern california you can grow more types of plants than any other area of the world.

you can have palms, cacti, aloe, hardwood trees , vegetable, citrus and all other

manner of plant life all in one yard.

where else can you do THAT ?

Ah, the famous "I have read."

Two points that I would think to contradict that statement:

1) I just read on the web that "Scientists estimate that more than half of all the world's plant and animal species live in tropical rain forests." A large portion of which would not make it anywhere in SoCal.

2) And what would they be calling SoCal? Most definitions would be referring to a huge area, larger than many countries. And how that translates to having it all grow in one yard I fail to follow.

I can't think of anything that will grow in SoCal that won't grow in Hawaii. But I can think of thousands of plants that will grow in Hawaii, and won't grow in SoCal.

[trioderob]

here is a little side note related to the topic:

so Hawaii can grow many more types of palms than southern california.

there no debate on this point.

But I have read that in southern california you can grow more types of plants than any other area of the world.

you can have palms, cacti, aloe, hardwood trees , vegetable, citrus and all other

manner of plant life all in one yard.

where else can you do THAT ?

Ah, the famous "I have read."

Two points that I would think to contradict that statement:

1) I just read on the web that "Scientists estimate that more than half of all the world's plant and animal species live in tropical rain forests." A lsrge portion of which would not make it anywhere in SoCal.

2) And what would they be calling SoCal? Most definitions would be referring to a huge area, larger than many countries. And how that translates to having it all grow in one yard I fail to follow.

I can't think of anything that will grow in SoCal that won't grow in Hawaii. But I can think of thousands of plants that will grow in Hawaii, and won't grow in SoCal.

NOT IN HAWAII:

Deciduous Trees

•Trees typical of the American mainland, especially those regarded for intense fall foliage displays, are not good plants to import to try and grow in a Hawaiian landscape. Temperate-zone native plants need an annual dormancy each winter with appreciable cold temperatures. Failure to receive ample chill prohibits flowering, increases chances for disease and depletes energy from the roots. Don't expect to see healthy aspen, sugar maple, larch, birch, crabapple, apricot, cherry or plum trees in Hawaii. Exceptions exist, as some species of fruits or shade trees may adapt to the highest elevations on the islands.

Evergreen Trees

•Some warm-temperate and Mediterranean species of evergreen trees grow well in the highlands of Hawaii, but for the most part, Hawaii's summers are too hot and its winters too warm for many conifers to grow. Fir, spruce, hemlock, yew, arborvitae and many species of pine often seen in gardens and landscapes in Canada and the mainland United States simply won't grow there.

Spring Bulbs

•The only way for Hawaiians to enjoy spring flowering bulbs is to pre-chill them in the refrigerator before planting them in the soil. Tulip, snowdrop, crocus, daffodil, hyacinth and other common bulbs enjoyed on the North American continent will not produce flowers in late winter or spring if not first exposed to two to four months of chilly soil temperatures.

Alpines

•Unless a mountain peak in Hawaii mimics the climate of the mountains from which an alpine plant from another continent originates, alpine plants don't grow in Hawaiian gardens. Alpine plants include widlflowers and shrubs adapted to long, cold winters and short, cool summers--neither of which occurs across the Hawaiian islands. Don't expect to find edelweiss, mountain pinks, rockcress, rosebay rhododendron or moss campion in Hawaii.

Read more: What Kind of Plants You Can't Grow in Hawaii? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7428358_kind-plants-can_t-grow-hawaii_.html#ixzz1FxYmMjUA

Edited March 7, 2011 by trioderob

[Dypsisdean]

NOT IN HAWAII:

Deciduous Trees

•Trees typical of the American mainland, especially those regarded for intense fall foliage displays, are not good plants to import to try and grow in a Hawaiian landscape. Temperate-zone native plants need an annual dormancy each winter with appreciable cold temperatures. Failure to receive ample chill prohibits flowering, increases chances for disease and depletes energy from the roots. Don't expect to see healthy aspen, sugar maple, larch, birch, crabapple, apricot, cherry or plum trees in Hawaii. Exceptions exist, as some species of fruits or shade trees may adapt to the highest elevations on the islands.

Evergreen Trees

•Some warm-temperate and Mediterranean species of evergreen trees grow well in the highlands of Hawaii, but for the most part, Hawaii's summers are too hot and its winters too warm for many conifers to grow. Fir, spruce, hemlock, yew, arborvitae and many species of pine often seen in gardens and landscapes in Canada and the mainland United States simply won't grow there.

Spring Bulbs

•The only way for Hawaiians to enjoy spring flowering bulbs is to pre-chill them in the refrigerator before planting them in the soil. Tulip, snowdrop, crocus, daffodil, hyacinth and other common bulbs enjoyed on the North American continent will not produce flowers in late winter or spring if not first exposed to two to four months of chilly soil temperatures.

Alpines

•Unless a mountain peak in Hawaii mimics the climate of the mountains from which an alpine plant from another continent originates, alpine plants don't grow in Hawaiian gardens. Alpine plants include widlflowers and shrubs adapted to long, cold winters and short, cool summers--neither of which occurs across the Hawaiian islands. Don't expect to find edelweiss, mountain pinks, rockcress, rosebay rhododendron or moss campion in Hawaii.

Read more: What Kind of Plants You Can't Grow in Hawaii? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7428358_kind-plants-can_t-grow-hawaii_.html#ixzz1FxYmMjUA

I would still maintain that any list would be much longer for SoCal.

And I would further maintain that there are other locations like the North Island of New Zealand (same approximate land area) that could grow an equal if not a more diversified plant selection than SoCal. But certainly no "one yard" will be growing both those plants needing cold temps, and those killed by cold temps.

As to Hawaii, I'll quote the first sentence in your link. Paul Wood writes on sustainable island gardening in Hawaii in the "Sunset Western Garden Book" and states "just about every plant thrives in Hawaii, but oddly enough, not everywhere." And then the author tries to refute that statement. But I don't think the author of your source appreciates the true climatic variation on the Big Island - most people do not. I have coconuts and coffee just below me, and a Christmas tree farm just above me. And over in Waimea they have the annual cherry blossum festival. And there is even a vineyard in Volcano. So much for deciduous plants and conifers. And the ultimate alpine plant, the silversword, is up on the summits.

And while it is true that many of the long cold winter snow loving varieties will not make it here, those are also many of the same East Coast and Canadian varieties that will not do well in SoCal either.

[DoomsDave]

I'm with Dean.

Hawaii has the high mountains. I'll bet you could grow Bristlecone Pines, Giant Sequoias, etc., somewhere on Mauna Loa or Kea, though, probably not in a very large area.

California simply does not have true tropical rain forest conditions in it, except where artificially created.

[trioderob]

this does not prove a thing

but its an interesting fact that i have known for years:

Of the world's 25 most endangered biodiversity zones, such as the Galapagos Islands and Amazon rainforest, only one is in North America: yes, our state and particularly its southernmost region. San Diego County alone has the dubious distinction of having more endangered species than any other county in the United States.

California has 289 threatened and endangered plant and animal species.

now back to the original thread (sorry OP)

Is there ONE species of palm that WILL NOT grow in Hawaii?

Edited March 8, 2011 by trioderob

[Dypsisdean]

this does not prove a thing

but its an interesting fact that i have known for years:

Of the world's 25 most endangered biodiversity zones, such as the Galapagos Islands and Amazon rainforest, only one is in North America: yes, our state and particularly its southernmost region. San Diego County alone has the dubious distinction of having more endangered species than any other county in the United States.

California has 289 threatened and endangered plant and animal species.

now back to the original thread (sorry OP)

Is there ONE species of palm that WILL NOT grow in Hawaii?

Before we get back on topic.

According to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, as of May 2009 Hawaii tops the list with 329 endangered species. Hawaii (with a small fraction of the land area) is closely followed by California, which has 309 endangered species.