Planting Time in SoCal?

[Just1MorePalm]

This year Easter Sunday is April 24...This usually marks the safe time to plant...This is much to late for me to start planting...I've already planted some larger hardier palms but now some of the tender-lings in the bullpen need to get in the ground...

I see a warming trend starting, is this a teaser or is this the real beginning of spring...

Let me know your thoughts and experiences...

Edited February 28, 2011 by Just1MorePalm

[paulgila]

if the palm is already somewhat acclimated you should be ok just about any time in socal,especially in your location.

[Phil]

I agree with Paul. In Huntington Beach, anytime presently should be fine. That is, if your plants are acclimated.

Phil

[MattyB]

I plant year round for species that are not considered marginal for my area. But if I'm going to try something a bit borderline, like a Satakentia or Hyophorbe for example, then I'll wait until the beginning of Summer.

[Justin]

May Gray and June Gloom actually come in handy for planting things not acclimated - there is substantial humidity and not a full day's worth of sun.

But for anything acclimated and not too tender, go ahead and start.

[Just1MorePalm]

I guess that's the main problem...Since they are tender and young plants(1 gal & under) they have been protected from the elements all winter...

So, the answer to the Question then is...Now is a good time to start the acclimation process so you can plant them later this spring...

So, young plants will need to acclimated to the cold as well as the sun? Will 45f nights kill a seedling if its only known 60f its entire life?

Edited February 28, 2011 by Just1MorePalm

[Walter John]

  On 2/28/2011 at 6:55 PM, Just1MorePalm said:

I guess that's the main problem...Since they are tender and young plants(1 gal & under) they have been protected from the elements all winter...

So, the answer to the Question then is...Now is a good time to start the acclimation process so you can plant them later this spring...

So, young plants will need to acclimated to the cold as well as the sun? Will 45f nights kill a seedling if its only known 60f its entire life?

Depends on what they are (as MattyB pointed out), so, what are they ?

[osideterry]

  On 2/28/2011 at 6:55 PM, Just1MorePalm said:

I guess that's the main problem...Since they are tender and young plants(1 gal & under) they have been protected from the elements all winter...

So, the answer to the Question then is...Now is a good time to start the acclimation process so you can plant them later this spring...

So, young plants will need to acclimated to the cold as well as the sun? Will 45f nights kill a seedling if its only known 60f its entire life?

Is there any good reason to plant a palm smaller than 3-gallon size? I know they grow that way in nature, but I bet the mortality rate is over 50% for small seedlings.

[Just1MorePalm]

Mostly Madagascar and New Cal stuff...Not real tender plants but young...

B.hapala, C. macro(Hookerii), D. onilahensis, D. paludosa, D. marojejya, D.ambositrae...

[Just1MorePalm]

  On 2/28/2011 at 7:33 PM, osideterry said:

  On 2/28/2011 at 6:55 PM, Just1MorePalm said:

I guess that's the main problem...Since they are tender and young plants(1 gal & under) they have been protected from the elements all winter...

So, the answer to the Question then is...Now is a good time to start the acclimation process so you can plant them later this spring...

So, young plants will need to acclimated to the cold as well as the sun? Will 45f nights kill a seedling if its only known 60f its entire life?

Is there any good reason to plant a palm smaller than 3-gallon size? I know they grow that way in nature, but I bet the mortality rate is over 50% for small seedlings.

Ideally, I would like to plant them larger...but the smaller ones are what were available..I am not a good sitter and I know that...So for me to raise them in pots for a few years without killing them is probably 50/50 too...The in ground plant has a better chance to fend for itself then the container plant...So the sooner I get them out on their own the sooner they can get established...When the sun starts to shine I get anxious to get them out of the container ranch...

[Kim]

Under 1 gal? I have had terrible results planting out small liners, which I did out of ignorance. The larger the plant, the more likely it will survive, up to a point. The 1 gal size should have a well developed root ball. In my experience the B. hapala and C. macrocarpa should be okay as a sturdy 1 gal. (as in ready to pot up to the next size) if already acclimated, and the D. onilahensis as well. I don't have experience here with the others. Are people growing D. paludosa in SoCal?

[Just1MorePalm]

Since no one has mentioned the season/weather...Can I assume that spring is sprung at this point, and this was our last arctic episode for the year?

Now its just a matter of getting the "babies" ready for life outside the nursery?...Is that what I'm reading?

[MattyB]

I didn't realize that we were talking about such small plants.

I agree with Kim that the one gallon B. hapa and the C. macrocarpa can be planted out now in your coastal location. I think Dypsis ambositrae will be fine also as long as it's a nice, well rooted out 1 gallon size.

I'd hold off on planting a very small Dypsis onilahensis in Huntington Beach at this time of year. They are very slow and without heat can rot easily, especially if your drainage is less than perfect.

I'm not sure about the D. paludosa or D. marojeyji

As far as the weather goes, we commonly have cold storms roll through in March to where the mountains can get snow. So, periods of mid to low 40's with very little heat during the day can be expected at times for a couple more months. Generally we are very slow to warm up.

[Just1MorePalm]

Does anyone have experience with container planting? Ive read its fine and has worked well for others in the past...I wont do it because I don't believe the pots will drain with any effectiveness...But if you plant a small liner in the ground maybe that would help keep the roots intact...Maybe this would increase the success rate of planting a small plant...

[Bags]

I plant year round and I think the main worry is sun burning a plant badly early in winter when it is not growing(I have learned this the hard way). In the summer it can grow out of it quickly, but in the winter they just sit there and die a slow death. If a palm is acclimated to the spot you are planting and has rooted out its pot I think it is better off in the ground. I have been putting shade cloth over some small plants until they are ready for the sun with good luck. I wouldn't worry about the cold as it will kill a palm in a pot just as fast as a palm in the ground.

[Just1MorePalm]

  On 2/28/2011 at 8:53 PM, Bags said:

I plant year round and I think the main worry is sun burning a plant badly early in winter when it is not growing(I have learned this the hard way). In the summer it can grow out of it quickly, but in the winter they just sit there and die a slow death. If a palm is acclimated to the spot you are planting and has rooted out its pot I think it is better off in the ground. I have been putting shade cloth over some small plants until they are ready for the sun with good luck. I wouldn't worry about the cold as it will kill a palm in a pot just as fast as a palm in the ground.

I'm just the opposite...I worry more about the cold nights...Shade is easy to provide, heat at night not so easy...If its going to be cold the container is moved to a warmer spot...indoors if its frosty...

Once its in ground the night time temps are critical...There is only so much a Homer Bucket can do...

[velutina]

I've been planting all winter, but nothing that is sensitive below 35F

[Kim]

  On 2/28/2011 at 8:53 PM, Just1MorePalm said:

Does anyone have experience with container planting? Ive read its fine and has worked well for others in the past...I wont do it because I don't believe the pots will drain with any effectiveness...But if you plant a small liner in the ground maybe that would help keep the roots intact...Maybe this would increase the success rate of planting a small plant...

I think it would be a mistake to plant a liner in the ground. If you are going to grow palms you will need to develop some patience. A lot of the most interesting palms are slow growers. What's the big hurry?

[Bags]

  On 2/28/2011 at 9:04 PM, Just1MorePalm said:

  On 2/28/2011 at 8:53 PM, Bags said:

I plant year round and I think the main worry is sun burning a plant badly early in winter when it is not growing(I have learned this the hard way). In the summer it can grow out of it quickly, but in the winter they just sit there and die a slow death. If a palm is acclimated to the spot you are planting and has rooted out its pot I think it is better off in the ground. I have been putting shade cloth over some small plants until they are ready for the sun with good luck. I wouldn't worry about the cold as it will kill a palm in a pot just as fast as a palm in the ground.

I'm just the opposite...I worry more about the cold nights...Shade is easy to provide, heat at night not so easy...If its going to be cold the container is moved to a warmer spot...indoors if its frosty...

Once its in ground the night time temps are critical...There is only so much a Homer Bucket can do...

I didn't think about moving them in when it is cold. That is a good option, but for me I have never done that. My plants are on their own and if they are going to get badly damaged by cold or frost then I don't want them anyways.

[Just1MorePalm]

Thanks for all the great input so far...

Kim...I guess your advice would be to wait, I can do that...I'm not in a big hurry...My point was to see/hear the thoughts of the forum members/growers as to where we are at in the growing season...Are we on the verge of spring...It was nearly 70f again today...I have a hard time not planting when temps hit 70f...But, planting the more dependent size/type plants require more inspiration/information than grabbing a root-bound fiver and plugging in the ground...I do that all year too...

Bags...I just like to give the plants a nice send off...If they cant hack it and look nice doing it they get hacked...these little ones just need a little more encouragement...

Hydrophorbe indica 3 strikes your out! Nice trunk, that's it!

[Bags]

Don't get me wrong I think many give their prized palms a little extra TLC...

and thanks for reminding me. I need to pull my Indica out of the ground and throw it in the trash. Not a good palm for SoCal

[BS Man about Palms]

Wow, so many posts and i haven't even thrown my 2 cents in!

Anyway, I think it is a PERFECT time to mound plant!!! The biggest thing the small palms have a problem with is their roots! If you have a light mix, this helps prevent choking the roots off and rotting them out when they are little ones..

I've had EXCEPTIONAL luck doing the same thing using a wooden box, but it bothers so many here I'll just continue to do it, not have losses and move on...

Last feb, and at various times I have planted a tiny 1 gal Cyphosperma balansae, a Viellonia alba that was all but bare rooted froma 1 gal, a Kentiopsis pyriformis, a Lepidorachhis moreana, a Dypsis sambereninsis (sp), Dypsis betompana ? all at 1 gal or smaller...and doing fine. The pyriformis is the only one at about 6-7 months. The rest look great..

The BIG experiment is myMoratia cerifera from a FOUR INCH POT. I did put that in a cage, with a little 40% shade cloth over it..

Really, the only prob I have here is liner sized cycads in the ground... But I'll get that figured out too.

Your climate should be the same as mine, so it should work the same... I have clay and use lots of mulch and mound ABOVE the clay...

If nothing else, the weeds have exceptional growth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DoomsDave]

J1MP:

Boy, you are chomping at the bit!

Which is good.

In general, you can plant most palms year-round in HB, but, as the others are advising, and as I've found out for myself the hard way, tender, exotic (expensive) stuff should wait a bit longer.

If you're not sure that something is acclimated to a spot you have in mind for it, set it out, in the pot, where you want to plant it and wait. If it shows any sign of problems, move it back to where you had it. I've found this to work particularly well with unknown Dypsis. If it's out there a couple weeks to a month with no fading or burning, it's probably okay to plant it there.

Many of the New Caledonians seem to take a lot more sun than I used to give them credit for. That (and the fact that he might be a sorcerer) explains BS Man's success . . . .

I don't like putting liners in teh ground, unless they're really bodacious growers (like Trachies, Phoenix, etc.) because they often stay small a while and the Herd of Lummoxen of the Apocalypse often trample them before they get large enough to notice.

On the OTHER hand . . .

If you can protect your precious baby, or plant more than one, by all means plant out as liners or gallons. And, get yourself one of those dunce caps with planets all over it . . . .

So, in any case, do what you will, and please come join us at the PSSC meeting this coming month, even if you aren't a member.

[BS Man about Palms]

I should amend one thing... You should bide your time as best you can on the mid to large sized "heeled" Dypsis. I have found, until they are of a good size, they REALLY like heat... I DON'T HAVE ANY....

So, if you are patient enough, wait till 5 gal size or larger... I have had minor success with anything smaller, and in reality, only moderate success with anything below 15 gal size... but THOSE are hard to find cause they take YEARS to get there.

[Just1MorePalm]

Thx again exeryone for chiming in...

I like to here all the different takes on a common issue we all face...When & Were?...

I am chomping at the bit...one in the ground is one less pot I have to tend to...

I usually do plant all year in my area for some of the larger proven stuff...BS as inspired me with his story of container planting a 4" pot in Feb...Best I can do is plant a liner in March...That is one reason I usually by 2 of each...Plant one, put other in the bullpen...

Most of the concern is about the size and type of plant...not the time of year...That gives me hope! But it is still too cold at night at least for a few more days/weeks...

Those "heeled" ones are tricky, they will pull themselves under...I don't get it...The ambo are my only heeled ones so they may need to wait...

I read earlier post...sorry I don't remember who wrote it..."a palm is meant to be in the ground" and "a palm is not a palm unless its in the ground"...Its not my motto, but it is true...

Edited March 1, 2011 by Just1MorePalm

[palms2plant]

When you consider the risks to palms in containers it is time now to begin planting in So.Cal. I agree the small plants in my greenhouse need to prove themselves outside first but those that outside survived the lower than average temp we have had this winter are now better in the ground. I'll start by setting them in place for a few days and watching the location for sun and wind to verify it is similar in nature to where the plants have been growing. I transplant non-stop as plants need a larger pot but in this case you can move the plant if necessary without the stress of moving a planted palm.

We are past the highest risk of temps under 40 but don't forget wind. In my garden 5 feet between spots can reduce or increase wind exposure by 50%.

Happy planting, Steve

[Just1MorePalm]

  On 3/1/2011 at 2:20 AM, Bags said:

Don't get me wrong I think many give their prized palms a little extra TLC...

and thanks for reminding me. I need to pull my Indica out of the ground and throw it in the trash. Not a good palm for SoCal

Send it to MattyB...he can make lunch...

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 3/1/2011 at 2:20 AM, Bags said:

Don't get me wrong I think many give their prized palms a little extra TLC...

and thanks for reminding me. I need to pull my Indica out of the ground and throw it in the trash. Not a good palm for SoCal

Wow, no good for SoCal? I've had mine in the ground for three years now and other than some winter leaf spotting, it grows a full crown of new leaves by mid summer despite my northern latitude. It is under the protection of a deodara cedar though.

On the subject of planting liners, nearly a quarter of all my trunking or nearly trunking palms were planted out from liner pots and usually were two or three strap leafed palms. Some of the genus planted from liners are Chambeyronia, Parajubaea, Roystonea, Ceroxylon, Rhopalostylis, Archontophoenix, Pritchardia, Licuala, Trachycarpus, Dypsis, Chamaedorea, Beccariophoenix, etc.

I don't use a calendar when I plant either. This winter I planted in the ground liner sized Chamaedorea woodsoniana, Brahea nitida, Brahea elegans, Trachycarpus princeps, Chamaedorea elatior, Dypsis onilahensis, Beccariophoenix alfredii, Ceroxylon ventricosum, and Euterpe edulis. All are doing well except one of the two Ceroylon which is alive but yellow.

My only experience with pot planting is with a 15 gallon Syagrus montgomeriana and a 5 gallon Archontophoenix alexandrea. Both were planted a few years ago and are doing well but I don't know if they're any better off. I slit the sides of the containers first but left the bottoms on.

[Just1MorePalm]

Jim...Very inspirational...I was talked off the ledge earlier, and now...well I'm tempted again...

My Hydrophorbe was too exposed...They need canopy...

When you plant liners, Do you cover them with plastic at night until they get off and running?

[Tyrone]

Hyophorbe indica is not a full sun palm at an early age, unless you are in the tropics. They can burn horribly if not allowed to emerge naturally. They're also critically endangered.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jim in Los Altos]

  On 3/2/2011 at 6:21 AM, Just1MorePalm said:

Jim...Very inspirational...I was talked off the ledge earlier, and now...well I'm tempted again...

My Hydrophorbe was too exposed...They need canopy...

When you plant liners, Do you cover them with plastic at night until they get off and running?

Joe, no, I don't cover new liner plantings with anything except for the natural canopy of surrounding trees/palms. My landscape has many shady or partially shaded areas so almost anything I plant is protected from hot sun or frost. Otherwise I'd probably be tempted to use shade cloth until the palm established itself.

[DoomsDave]

DEFINITELY plant young H. indicas in the shade. Too much sun, too young = Death Camp.