I joined just a few days ago. Thanks everybody for the warm welcome!

I got a lot of great suggestions for a thread that I started asking about small palms for indoor growing and super-hardy possibilities for my area (USDA Zone 4b-5a).

I have a few other more specific questions about species and variety suitability. For some time I have been involved in the devlopment of a new kind of aquarium display, the planted riparium, which combines emergent aquatic plants with aquarium fish and everything else. Here is a picture of a riparium planting that I had set up a while ago in a 50-gallon tank.

This setup looks superficially similar to a terrarium or paludarium display, but ripariums are different in that the above water plants are grown in planters that hang from the rear pane of glass. The plants are somewhat easier to manage with this planting system and the planters leave lots of open water space for aquarium fish.

I have gotten a lot of really great plants (aroids, mangroves, umbrella sedges, swordplants and many others) to grow well in ripariums and I have thought that it would be fun to try palms for water culture in a riparium. I want to start a list of species and sources, then try a few palms. Naturally, the best kinds of palms to try as possibilities in ripariums are those that occur in wet habitats out in nature. These will make the most authentic representation of the streamside habitat and they will also tolerate the constantly-wet rooting conditions in the ripairum planters.

Do you have any suggestions? I have already read the article and linked species list by Jorge Monteverde about palms for ponds (http://www.victoria-adventure.org/aquatic_plants/jorge/page1.htm), but it would be great to get some first-hand observations. In addition to adaptability to water culture, an especially important criteria for this kind of specific growing situation is that selections should be relatively small in size. They would also ideally develop something like their adult-form leaves while still short. There are probably many palms that could be kept in a riparium as seedlings, but the larger-growing of these will probably just grow with simple, juvenile leaves before becoming too large to keep in a 50-gallon or 100-gallon fish tank.

Thanks for considering this!

Edited January 21, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

Well Hydrophyte, welcome to palmtalk, interesting your ripariums. I know of a couple palms that love water and would probably do fine in your riparium; Cyrtostachys renda, which has a very vibrant red to orange crownshaft and may stay somewhat dwarfed if kept in a planter, is my recommendation. The other will probably outgrow a planter quickly, Mauritia flexuosa gets to be quite large.

I have been keeping a few Cyrtos in pots to see how they do in confined spaces, one is indoors and one outside. These I grew from seed, they are at least two or three years old now, occupying one gallon pots. The one outside has some color in the crownshafts, but the one inside has yet to show color. Oh, the one outside already had color when I started this project a year ago.

There are some tiny Dypsis species. you might look up the ones that love water.

Aloha from Maui. It snowed on our mountain yesterday, but I swear today's temperature at sea level was at least 80 degrees Fahrenheit.

Now that you see where this is coming from, I should show you what I'm talking about, ha?

This is the one outside that shows some color.

Ciao,

Bill

Thanks so much for these ideas. I ran into C. renda right away while looking around on the Internet, but I think that it might not be such a good choice because I understand that it requires truly tropical conditions. It is probably too dry and too cool for it in most homes.

Eighty degrees sure sounds nice. Last night here in Southern Wisconsin is was -15 F.

Almost any palm can be "trained" to grow in one of your contraptions. You are making tropical conditions right there. Dry air should be no problem if the roots are in water. I would start with some of the more bullet proof ones. There are people here that can send you seedlings of all kinds of easy to grow palms at little or no cost. The "fancy" ones can be purchased mail order too from Hawaii or wherever and you will be off and running.

If the start to grow too fast,which they may do, you can easily cut off roots and leaves to slow them down creating bonsai.

That picture sure looks inviting. Fish and tropicals in the frozen north? SWEET!

Well the plant roots are totally underwater in those ripariums, so I think that I would like to start with species that are known to do well in water culture. I imagine that some of the plants that require good drainage would just perish if planted in the water like that. Water-associated palms would also create the most authentic kind of planting.

Like I said another real important factor is that the plants should start to develop their more interesting leaf architecture while still pretty small; there isn't a lot of room in these fish tank setups.

We definitely appreciate these setups with the greenery and water and fish here in the middle of winter. We have that 50 set up in our living room and a lot of the full spectrum fluorescent light spills out into the room too.

Edited January 21, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

I've seen the common Chaemadorea elegans being used in tanks...not sure how long they last though.

Jonathan

Interesting and lovely

Licuala spinosa - if pruned and maintained via Ken's recommendations above - sure do love their 'feet' being wet. I have no experience with attempting bonsai-like specimens or with ripariums. Welcome to Palm Talk and best of luck - none the less

Rich

Do you think that Licuala spinosa would still have that awesome leaf form if controlled like that for size? The plants really can't grow too large to work in these riparium setups. How long after gerninating would a young L. spinosa need before starting to grow something like the adult-form leaves?

Edited January 22, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

Well today I almost swooped in on a potted Chamaedorea cataractarum at a local garden center. The plant had a few side shoots that might have been separated from the main plant with roots(?), but most of it was just too large for a fish tank. I hope to find seedlings for cat palm somewhere online later this spring.

I got a handful of Chamaedorea cataractarum seedlings from Tampa Scott and a bunch of seeds too. Awesome! this will be interesting to try these out in a riparium. They might thrive in there.

I hope to get those C. cataracterum potted up tonight. In the meantime here is a quick picture from my little 11.4G riparium setup..

The grassy plant is baby panda bamboo (Pogonatherum crinitum).

I hope to get those C. cataracterum potted up tonight. In the meantime here is a quick picture from my little 11.4G riparium setup..

The grassy plant is baby panda bamboo (Pogonatherum crinitum).

Woah!

Thanks for sharing,

Jonathan

Thanks Xenon. I got the C. cataracterum potted up. I hope to get some pictures posted.

Devin:

Welcome to palmtalk. I hope you are comfortable here

Unfortunately I can not express complexly in English, but you try to understand me

First: Here's a link to an article about rheophyte habit palms written by my friend and compatriot Jorge Monteverde

http://palmasenresistencia.blogspot.com/2010/01/aquatic-palms.html

Second: Phoenix paludosa is a species that can adapt to living with roots in the mud or water. I am growing a specimen immersed in a container with water two years ago (see attached pictures)

Phoenix roebelleni can also live like

Friendly

Jose

Edited March 27, 201115 yr by pindo

Hey thanks Jose for posting those pictures. That plant does look very happy. Unfortunately I think that Phoenix palms are going to be much too large to use in a fish tank setup. I have seen that article by J. Monteverde, but it was published in another different place. I have those species that he lists on my radar.

I got the potted C. cataractarum into an aquarium and they look happy so far.

Hi !!!

I mentioned the case of P paludosa just to show they can live as rheophyte. Maybe you could test P roebelleni that grows much less in water than on soil

Cheers

The C. cataractarum are starting to root in their planters, and their crowns are about even with the water level. This will be really great if they grow right in the riparium.

Thanks again Tampa Scott for sending them!

Edited April 3, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

The C. cataractarum are glowing slowly with the planters right in the water. This is fun!

I hope that I can get my hands on some Licuala spinosa seeds or seedlings to try out in the riparium.

I am researching some more and jotting down some quick notes to myself...

1. Arenga caudata
   
2. Chamaedorea seifrizii
   
3. C. pausiflora
   
4. Geonoma brongniartii http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5469
   
5. G. macrostachys
   
6. Hydriastele rheophytica
   
7. Pinanga rivularis and various other Pinanga
   

Another online store...

http://www.especies-seeds.com/catalog.php/especiesbotanics/dt69076/Chamaedorea_seifrizii

*

Edited May 10, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

I am getting real good results so far with the Chamaedorea cataractarum seedlings that Tampa Scott sent to me. You can see here the light green leaves that have developed since I planted them in the riparium planter. I should have turned the planter around so that you could also see the new root development. I have the planters down in the water up to the rim and many white healthy roots are forming inside.

This might be a very good plant for growing in ripariums. I will be interested to see how susceptible it is to spider mites. The leaf architecture is another important factor; I hope the leaves will begin to grow nice and full while the plant is still relatively small. FOr this species it will probably be best to plant several seedlings in each planter.

Devin, I think I am going to give this a try in my Koi/Frog pond with some of my larger seedlings

Thanks again so much for sending them Scott.

I am real interested to see how they do with spider mites. Riparium plants can get mites real bad because of the extra bit of heat that comes from the fluorescent lighting.

I gotta get more of the C. cataractarum seeds germinating and I also gotta get more new palms to try.

I know that they aren't true palms at all, but I wonder if anybody out there has had much experience with Pandanus species(?). I think that they are fascinating and I would love to try one in a riparium if there might be any water-associated species that don't grow so huge. I have this new riparium setup that I have started that will be filled with brackish water for several different kinds of mangroves. I haven't added any plants to it yet.

I'd love to try a Pandanus tectorius in there. They should be able to handle the brackish water and grow well(??). Has anybody out there ever had any experience with this plant? I wonder if a young individual would look like not much more than a coarse grass. They have seeds in stock at rarepalmseeds.com ...

http://www.rarepalmseeds.com/pix/PanTec.shtm

Edited May 15, 201115 yr by hydrophyte

So has anybody had any experience with any Pandanus? I really want to try and get a smallish water-associated one if I can.

I found a source for Pandanus amaryllifolius! I have wanted to get that plant for some time. I don't think it is water-associated but it might be a great houseplant. It is about half-way down on this page...

http://www.floraexotica.ca/Vegie.htm

Has anybody ever had any experience with that place? A lot of their prices are pretty cheap.

I won ebay auctions for four intriguing plants, all from the same vendor...

• Licuala spinosa- seeds
  
• Pandanus tectorius - seedling
  
• Pinanga kuhlii - seeds
  
• Carludovica palmata - seedling
  

Of these I only expect the L. spinosa and the P. tectorius to be candidates for growing on fish tanks, but the other two should be nice plants to have. I remember the Carludovica from out in the woods when I lived in Costa Rica. Has anybody had any experience with germinating L. spinosa? I ran into a couple references that indicated that they were extremely slow to sprout (>1 year) while a couple others said that fresh seeds can sprout quick(???).

That Pandanus sure looks like a cool plant.

Does anybody have any suggestions for germinating Licuala spinosa seeds? I should see my box in a couple of days. One reference that I read indicated that L. spinosa take more than a year to sprout, while another described them sprouting after just a few weeks(??).

I won ebay auctions for four intriguing plants, all from the same vendor...

• Licuala spinosa- seeds
  
• Pandanus tectorius - seedling
  
• Pinanga kuhlii - seeds
  
• Carludovica palmata - seedling
  

I got the boxtoday with this stuff from Hawaii. It all looks really great. I hope to post pictures later on.

The P. tectorius is going to go right into a fishtank.

Dypsis leptocheilos seedlings would look good. They love water too.

Best regards

Tyrone

Does anybody have any suggestions for germinating Licuala spinosa seeds? I should see my box in a couple of days. One reference that I read indicated that L. spinosa take more than a year to sprout, while another described them sprouting after just a few weeks(??).

Both are right. They can take ages but some may come up fast.

Best regards

Tyrone

Dypsis leptocheilos seedlings would look good. They love water too.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thanks! I am getting this order ready for floribundapalms.com right now. I will look into that one.

I have a new photo update for my 50G setup. I cleaned the tank and got this quick shot.

I did not take the care to get the fish into the shot. I will take more time later on for some better pictures. The fish are looking great, and so are the plants.

There is one single Chamaedorea cataractarum in there hidden in the Spathiphyllum foliage. I also potted one of my new Pandanus tectorius in a planter and it is over on the far right.

Hey bud - Nobody suggested any of the "Stilt Palms" - I wonder why ?

How is the Pandanus doing in there ?

The stilt palms that I know about grow into big trees. I remember seeing Iriartea in Costa Rica and they were huge.

That P. tectorius has only been in there for a few days, so it's soon to tell how it will do in the water like that.

Here is another quick shot of that 50G setup. When I get my palm order with the new seedlings I am going to put all of the water-associated palms in this setup.

The Pandanus is still looking good, but I don't see any new roots on it yet.

Here's another recent shot of that 50-gallon riparium setup.

I don't have any palms in there yet or any fish either, but my 40-gallon brackish estuary setup is looking pretty good.

• A. Hawaian hala tree screwpine, Pandanus tectorius
  
• B. black mangrove, Avicennia germinans
  
• C. Bacopa monnieri
  
• D. white mangrove, Laguncularia racemosa
  
• E. leather fern, Acrostichum danaeifolium
  
• F. Cryptocoryne ciliata
  

There sure are a lot of cool plants that grow in mangrove swamps that's for sure.

I got the water-associated plants from my Floribunda order potted up in riparium planters and here they are in my 50G fish tank...

It will be interesting to see what these do. The Chamaedorea cararactarum still look good, but they are growing very slowly. I need plants that will fill faster. Maybe I will see more growth from one of these selections.

That Hydriastele sure is a cool plant. I hope that one will grow for me.