Rain and disaster in Rio de Janeiro

[amazondk]

The past few days have had torrential rains in Rio and surrounding areas. There are estimates that over 250 mm of rain fell in 24 hours in many areas. The mountain city of Teresopolis was especially hard hit with maybe 200 people or more dead as the mountainsides collapses and streams turned into rivers in flash floods. The mountains around Rio are granitic mountains that are very old and weathered. There are big boulders all over the place. These boulders once rolled down hillsides. So, even though yesterdays disaster was large similar events certainly have happened many times in the past. There just were not all the people living in areas where they happened. The recent weather is related to the La Niña event currently under way. This pattern with the inter tropical convergence zone being to the south during the southern hemisphere summer pumps humidity out of Amazonia into south eastern Brazil increasing rainfall in what is the normal rainy season. Watching the news yesterday was very sad watching people pull bodies out of the mud with no where to even put them. They really do not know yet how many people are dead. The city of Teresopolis was decimated.

Pictures of disaster in the mountain cities

NY Time Report on Landslides

[aussiearoids]

Don , so sad , amazing high death toll . Only 12 so far here and 60 or so missing in the QLD> floods .

[Nigel]

I am watching the scenes in Rio on TV and its incredible, everybody from poor to rich has been hit and everything swept away. I cant imagine how much it will cost to clean this up, and this is small compared to what is happening in Australia.

People continue to dismiss global warming and refuse to accept the truth, just how much worse does it need to get ?

In the last month alone worst floods ever in Australia and Rio de Janeiro, worst cold for 100 years in europe , eastern US freezing whilst the west basks in summer temps.

The weather is getting more and more crazy each year and we still cant face up to the truth.

[amazondk]

Nigel,

I think that events like this have always happened. I have spent plenty of time in the moutains of Rio and São Paulo. There are huge boulders all over the place that came from somewhere else higher up. Just like the ones that rolled over houses in this storm. All of these events are cyclical, the Australian flood as well. If it happens once in 100 years, 500 years, or whatever time frame it happens. But, now there are people living all over the place. And, they make things worse by building in risk areas, deforestation along stream banks and on hill sides, etc. As you said the worst cold snap in 100 years on Europe. In fact since the world came out of the mini ice age it surely has gotten warmer. Joe Bastardi from Accuweather claims that we have surely shifted into a cold mode as for the climate, at least in the Northern Hemisphere. What I think the major problem is lies with people not the weather. The weather always changes and always has. And, from all indications abrupt climate change has been a common occurance over the Earths history. There have been periods where there was no ice and periods where the entire planet was ice (ice ball Earth). What I think can be done is seriously look at where people are living and realistically assess risks and take action to remove people where necessary and enforce zoning codes and building codes. A lot of the fatalities in Brazil could have been avoided if this had been done. Urban planning in this country has been non existant in the majority of urban expansion. It is always a lot more expensive and difficult to correct mistakes than to avoid them. Unfotunately. Whether climate change has human influence or not I do not really that important since even if humans are influencing it nothing can be done in the short run to change anything. But, land use can be controlled. Although it may be a painful and expensive deal. There were a lot of commentaries about this on the Globo News 10 oclock report last night and I am sure the news will be full of it today. Since I was raised in the Rocky Mountain part of the USA I always was aware that rocks and earth slide down mountains. And, if you are in the way you get hurt. The same applies here.

This article in Portugues in Oglobo.com.br outlines this problem of urban land use and it´s consequences in this case. Rio disaster

dk

[Nigel]

Nigel,

I think that events like this have always happened.

Sigh........ yes but every 100, 200 500 years and now it is every few days somewhere in the world.

I know there are other factors at play, but we need to wake up fast and stop putting it down natural cycles that always happened, because the current frequency and severity of weather disasters have never happened.

[Ken Johnson]

Nice work DK. In the long run people are responsible on both ends. Carbon emission and baby emission. We need to slow down both or just keep on doing it and watch lots of people die as a result. More people in the way, more people dead. Kind of a natural consequence don't y'all think?

[Tyrone]

Very sad.

This La Nina has been a very bad one. Australia has gone from drought, then rejoiced when it started to rain, then when it didn't stop despaired when all the crops got washed away. Something in between would have been nice.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Alicehunter2000]

Don, your spot on with your analysis IMO. It's not the weather, its the people and where they choose to build. We are just more aware of the consequences due to Internet and TV......I will leave it at that, so as not to get into the whole "Global Warming" debate.....oh, I mean't "Climate Change" debate (more flexability with the term Climate Change).

Prayers and Best Wishes for those in Brazil's flooding.

[bgl]

Don,

Thanks for posting this. This is very disturbing and sad news. The city of Teresopolis, which apparently has been very hard hit, was actually the first place we visited on the Biennial in April 2010. That was on Sunday April 18. It's a beautiful city and we drove through it on our way to nearby Serra dos Orgãos National Park, where we spent the afternoon. I know it's tempting to get on the topic of climate change etc., but in order to save this thread from extinction, please refrain from this type of discussion!

Bo-Göran

[PalmatierMeg]

So terrible and sad. I just watched a video of a woman being rescued. She was being pulled through flood waters holding her dog with one arm. She was saved but the dog was carried away. I hope it made it too.

[amazondk]

Bo,

I remembered the trip you and others of the biennial had to the area when the story broke. It is such a beautiful area. As I said above I feel very strongly that such a disaster has nothing to do what so ever with the climate. It is totally a matter of where people choose to live. That does not mean that when people move to a certain place they realize the danger they are putting themselves in. And, it does not mean that those in the government are resposible for everything. I could go on and on about the land use problems in Brazil. There is a lot of uproar on the news here about this situation as year after year things like this happen. It is very difficult to tell people living in areas of risk that they have to pull themselves up and move elsewhere even if the government pays them. But, that is what has to happen. In 2007 a complete risk study of the area was presented to the government of the municipality and nothing was done. An article I just read by a geologist cites that they really do not know what kind of historical cycles such events have happened. But, they are not uncommon and most of the area impacted was already known to be of great risk. People built where they should not have, nothing was done, and nature did what she always does. It is just like living in a hurricane zone. Some day you will get hit if you live there.

dk

[bgl]

Don,

Thank you very much for your clarification and I am perfectly aware of the situation you outlined. And I wasn't implying that there was anything inappropriate in what you posted. Quite the opposite. It's just that some of the subsequent comments had me slightly concerned and this is such a tragic story and I wouldn't want this thread to be sidetracked with talks about climate change or political decisions.

Bo-Göran

[amazondk]

Bo,

Thanks. I figured that was where you were coming from. On the Globo News channel last night they had a quite in depth discussion of the events. The death toll right now is at 527 people. And, there are still a lot of fatalities to find. As you can imagine the communities were no where near prepared for such a disaster. The event is being called a land Tsunami here. There are some parallels for sure. In this case it was not just poor people that were affected. High income housing was also hit. And, these houses were also built in areas known to be risk areas. Water is a powerful force. When the soil becomes saturated to a certain point compbined with the erosion from flash foods gravity pulls things downhill and even with forest the land will slide. Of course vegetation helps and when deforestation is a part of the equation things get even worse. Brazil has excellent land use legislation. It is just not followed in may cases. One of the big problems here is deforestation of river banks around the country. That is including in my area. By law you can not remove vegetation from stream and river banks. But, it has been a common practice. This leads both to pollution and to greater flooding and destruction when there is large amounts of rain. As I mentioned the combination of La Niña and other weather factors down south has been pumping large amounts of moisture from my region into the south east. Amazonia is one of the major weather makers in South America. I guess in some degrees similar to the Gulf of Mexico to the USA. The long range forecasts have been saying for at least 6 months that this years rainy season in western Amazonia would be above normal. And, that has been happening. And, this always produces the effects being seen in the southeast. It is a real painful scene to watch. But, just like the urban warefare in Rio it is really a man made problem.

dk

[Tyrone]

Just saw some latest images on the news. Horrifying. Many dead. Almost incomprehensible the extent of the chaos.

Best regards

Tyrone

[WestCoastGal]

Saw some footage from the Rio area on this mornings news after having read about it here first. Really terrible news on the dead and missing. The coverage I saw showed some very nice homes that had been inundated and damaged from the river of mud. When I see pics from areas like this and in Queensland I just wonder how people muster up the stamina to begin the clean up after losing so much. In areas of massive damage like this you have to wonder where you even take all the debris. Katrina and Haiti also come to mind.

[Tyrone]

Watching the news, the cleanup efforts in Queensland have been a very unifying force for the community. Everyone's pitching in, and neighbours are getting together and helping out like never before. It would be hard to know where to put the 50cm of mud when it's everywhere. On a positive note, think of all the nutrients that mud must bring to the garden. All those gardens will just go nuts with all the nutrients and water they've had. I saw a few majestic palms in the news footage in QLD which will be in heaven right now. You've got to be positive.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Takil-Explorer]

I have been to that Serra de Orgaos area, and been to both Perotropolis and Teresopolis. And I also have been to where Worsleya procera grows wild. When you look down from that granit mountain you see a valley full with villas fro wealthey people. Well it can rain cat and dogs there, I had one day like that overthere. Its a rainforest are by the way, so wet anyway. But in exceptional years like this year it must be dangerous to live in a valley surrounde by those granit mountains! The vegetation grows in thin soil on granit, when that gets saturated and starts to get down you get a serious problem. I saw a landslide wich had taken part of a village next to where the mountain with the Worsleyas!

I also heard rich people pay extra money so they can build inside the rainforest, and have seen the examples! With money the law will be put aside there apparently.

Alexander

[amazondk]

You are very right Alexander.

dk

[amazondk]

Just an update, the death toll is now at 672 people. This is the single largest disaster in Brazilian history. I guess that sort of attests to just how fortunate the country has been in comparison with many places around the world. But, the scenes on TV are not anything nice to watch. A lot of people have lost everything. The government has now announced several measures from eliminating settlement in risk areas to an advance warning system for extreme meteorlogical events. But, that will take 4 years to put in place. And, it still depends a lot on land use beiing changed. I think that the death toll has far from ended as they are just now getting into more remote areas.

dk