Bottle Palms

[MattyB]

Barb's post about tidying up a bottle palm got me to thinking about how different some Bottles look.

For example, here's Wal's Bottle showing the classic round base with a quickly tapering crownshaft.

Here's a pic of mine. It looks a little different. The base is round but not as much as Wal's. Also, the crownshaft seems to be holding a buldge instead of it tapering up quickly. It seems to be a fatter crownshaft and skinnier trunk.

What makes these differences? I think Wal is more tropical than I am but why would my crownshaft be so robust? Sun? What are your thoughts?

[osideterry]

I wonder of yours will look like Wal's in a year or two. The trunk of hyophorbes reminds me of blowing a long balloon. You eventually have a rounded "capsule" shaped column, but the crownshaft has to conform to the changing trunk shape. Also, if you grew 3 bottles sided-by-side, each one might be a bit different.

[epicure3]

This question applies to a lot of palms other than Hyophorbes. I think it also applies to Roystonea, Wodyetia and others. They seem to have a more robust or thick stem when grown in less than tropical locales. My thought is that the palms grow more slowly here and the palm tissue has more time to form before the leaf stem falls off. If that happens enough over time, voila, a larger trunk. I have a monster H. Verschafeltii (you've seen it Matty). The stem is the fattest I have ever seen on this palm. I'm not saying that the rule is hard and fast every time, but enough so that you could apply that tendancy.

[sonoranfans]

This question applies to a lot of palms other than Hyophorbes. I think it also applies to Roystonea, Wodyetia and others. They seem to have a more robust or thick stem when grown in less than tropical locales. My thought is that the palms grow more slowly here and the palm tissue has more time to form before the leaf stem falls off. If that happens enough over time, voila, a larger trunk. I have a monster H. Verschafeltii (you've seen it Matty). The stem is the fattest I have ever seen on this palm. I'm not saying that the rule is hard and fast every time, but enough so that you could apply that tendancy.

I think the bulge has to do with water content and that might have to do with the consistency of water supply and consistency of available nutrients, which can also involve soil type. I am speaking of royals, there are lots of them around here. I have seen some public ones(inconsistent water supply) that have a vase shaped trunk, skinny at the bottom, tapering bigger as you go up. Mike Evans in st pete has the thickest trunk royals Ive ever seen, 24-30" at the base and a slow decreasing taper that never gets skinny. Some of the really thick ones are only 30' tall overall, but the petiole bases are also massive, perhaps 2x as thick versus some of the other 30 footers Ive seen. I dont want to be under one of those fronds when it comes down. I have also seen skinny royals in public plantings in very tight root zones(concrete all around) all the way up they are skinny, and these have anemic crowns. Mikes were grown from florida natives and used to be called elata, but now taxonomists say they are all the same. So it must be water/soil differences. I have seen some of the same with foxtails, but not as exagerated.

As far as the bottles, it could be water/nutrients but Wals might be more mature. Im thinking the aussie coast gets lots more rain in the hot wet season than socal does in the warm season. Its not such a big difference to me, they are both beautiful palms.

Edited January 4, 2011 by sonoranfans

[lucky1]

Interesting question.

if you grew 3 bottles side-by-side, each one might be a bit different

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Maybe they're simply a highly variable palm, even when nutrients and water are sufficient.

Nice looking Bottle, MattyB, you'll soon be hacking that leaf off...

Barb

[spockvr6]

Heres a Florida classic Royal I photographed a number of years ago down in Bradenton with my father for scale.

[sonoranfans]

Heres a Florida classic Royal I photographed a number of years ago down in Bradenton with my father for scale.

No kidding Larry, that is a classic healthy young one! I never really appreciated how big they can get till I moved to Florida.

[spockvr6]

This question applies to a lot of palms other than Hyophorbes. I think it also applies to Roystonea, Wodyetia and others. They seem to have a more robust or thick stem when grown in less than tropical locales. My thought is that the palms grow more slowly here and the palm tissue has more time to form before the leaf stem falls off. If that happens enough over time, voila, a larger trunk. I have a monster H. Verschafeltii (you've seen it Matty). The stem is the fattest I have ever seen on this palm. I'm not saying that the rule is hard and fast every time, but enough so that you could apply that tendancy.

I have wondered what made some trunks/crownshafts fatter than others and always assumed it was water/nutrients and of course genes. But, perhaps there is a speed component as well. A long term test is in order!

Here is what I believe to be one of the finest I have seen! This is Bubba's down in Palm Beach which I photographed a few years ago. To me, that very thick crownshaft with the bulge in it is a necessary trait.

[spockvr6]

Heres a Florida classic Royal I photographed a number of years ago down in Bradenton with my father for scale.

No kidding Larry, that is a classic healthy young one! I never really appreciated how big they can get till I moved to Florida.

A number of songs come to mind......

"Fat Bottomed Girls"

"Baby Got Back"

Im sure this thread could take a turn now.......

[spockvr6]

To me, this is about the ultimate for Roystonea!

This is a photo of my grandfather back in the 1970's and was taken in Venezuela.

[spockvr6]

Mike Evans in st pete has the thickest trunk royals Ive ever seen, 24-30" at the base and a slow decreasing taper that never gets skinny. Some of the really thick ones are only 30' tall overall, but the petiole bases are also massive, perhaps 2x as thick versus some of the other 30 footers Ive seen.

I agree! I think he say something like 75 or 80 of them around his property!

I suspect some might be north of 30" at the base as my larger ones are about that diameter and Mikes have a few years on mine.

[sonoranfans]

Great pics Larry, fat bottomed girls, great song! And those royals are magnificent, the way they should be.

[MattyB]

Dang, fatties!

The buldge in the crownshaft often has to do with how many flower spathes are underneath as well. I've seen Rhopalostylis go from crazy-huge buldging crownshaft to just regular shaped over a few years as the flower cycle happens.

[Kumar]

From the royals that I have seen I'd say stem thickness and size of crownshaft are a direct function of soil quality, heat, humidity and space.

When more than one royal is planted too close, usually one becomes the 'dominant' palm of good size and the others remains slower growing and more slender. I've seen this many times.

Royals in dry, elevated areas are usually sickly looking with thin stems and poor leaves

Royals planted in freshly cleared land or on new garden clearings usually attain large dimensions.

[Kris]

Beautiful visuals....

[spockvr6]

When more than one royal is planted too close, usually one becomes the 'dominant' palm of good size and the others remains slower growing and more slender. I've seen this many times.

Yes yes yes!

I planted three Royals as closely together as possible in one area of my yard in order to make them look like Adonidias on steroids (as most Adonidias around here are planted in 3's).

One trunk is the obvious pack leader with a very fat base, one is moderate and the other is the runt!

[spockvr6]

From the royals that I have seen I'd say stem thickness and size of crownshaft are a direct function of soil quality, heat, humidity and space.

The nursery down in Homestead that claims to grow the worlds thickest Royals is supposedly on good soil and they keep the palms drenched and well fed. Some of the pics of palms that have come out of there were serious monsters.

[bubba]

Larry, Those Royals of yours are truly"fat city". Obviously, you care for them quite well. It is hard to believe but it has been over three years since your wife and brother dropped by. You are welcome anytime you are in the area. My Sindle keeps growing away and this is a recent picture:

Pedro on this Board has a Bottle purchased at a Fairchild sale 7 years ago that was roughly the size of Matt's. It is not as tall as some of the bizzare Bottles you see at Fairchild but this has to be the fattest Bottle I have ever seen. I am going to take a shot of it and post it here because it is truly ridiculous.

Sorry. I did not realize this picture was so fuzzy.

[spockvr6]

It is hard to believe but it has been over three years since your wife and brother dropped by. You are welcome anytime you are in the area.

Has it been that long!?!?!? It surely doesnt seem like it.....time flies! I know I took a number of pics when we visited that day so Ill have to dig them up and take a stroll down memory lane. You hospitality was certainly wonderful. Ill have to plan another trip down that way sometime this year.

Of course, if you ever want to come to the tundra and see lots of Pindo palms, youre welcome here

Edited January 7, 2011 by spockvr6