Dypsis malcomberi/mealy bug

[Dypsisdean]

So what's the general consensus about this palm? It was purchased as D. malcomberi. Is it really? Or is it the D. "mealy bug" that has supposedly been IDed as D. mananjarensis?

And what's with the new red leaf? All three of mine do this. I don't recall other D. "mealy bugs" doing this. Or is it just a juvenile thing?

Curious minds want to know.

[ariscott]

It looks like D. malcomberi that I have seen sold here in Australia. But then, that doesn't mean anything with these dypsis!!

Regards, Ari

[Tyrone]

Beautiful. Sit back and enjoy it.

[edric]

I can't wait to see what that looks like in a few years. Looks real good Dean, Ed

[ellidro]

Dean I'm not sure if this helps but I bought a larger Mealy Bug/mananjarensis from Ron a while back that puts out a reddish/orange colored leaf. I also have palms I bought as malcomberi from Phil as well as Floribunda and both have the same reddish/orange push. They sure look and grow very similar. I would be surprised if they are not one in the same but that is just purely based on looks and growth of juvenile plants and with Dypsis that doesn't always mean much.

[aussiearoids]

Seen a few of these , here's one from a mate just up the road .

It is supposed to be different to the Mealy Bug with more intense markings .

flush to new leaf as well .

[carver]

Seen a few of these , here's one from a mate just up the road .

It is supposed to be different to the Mealy Bug with more intense markings .

flush to new leaf as well .

Wish I had mates down the road with palms like that. Nice markings.

[aussiearoids]

A slightly better pic , and you can see the tag with name ..

I must get one , see more for sale recently I think .

Must go and see The Good Doctor

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

So what's the general consensus about this palm? It was purchased as D. malcomberi. Is it really? Or is it the D. "mealy bug" that has supposedly been IDed as D. mananjarensis?

And what's with the new red leaf"? All three of mine do this. I don't recall other D. "mealy bugs" doing this. Or is it just a juvenile thing?

Curious minds want to know.

Dean, that’s a good question but as we know the ‘mealy bug Palm’ has

been named by John D, as D mananjarensis Its just one of those things

I guess, but these plants we are seeing showed up over here in Aussie

Approx ten years or so ago now, like the rest of the world I hope

there’s not a lot around so Michael if Arden the good Doctor has

Any I’d be quick he must be buying up he wanted to get some off Phillip

a while back but were not selling any there going in the ground.

I remember when seed came into Rosebud back then, it was labelled as

D malcomberi thing is no one noticed they were different till to late, we

Did track some down for Rich not alot but he got some back (it was nice

Of Phillip to sell some back). Other batches of seed and I mean more

Than one thats for sure there’s been no sign of any more that I know of.

This Palm IMO should be the real ‘mealy bug’ just a shame that nic

name has been taken but I think we have a new

Palm.......... wouldn’t that be nice, we’ll have to wait and see, So Now

the Real Question is would the real D.malcomberi please stand up....

More work for J.D. hey how about over there is there many of you guys

got this ‘sp’, how about you Jeff S. Any you other growers got this

beauty I hope its out and about over there I reckon it should grow well

for many of you guys, well just wanted to share that bit of info.

Regards Mikey ..............................

[Tyrone]

Hey Mikey, great to see you back here. It's been a real treat to see yourself and Jeff Nugent back here again.

Best regards

Tyrone

[BS Man about Palms]

I like Mikeys input anytime! I've brought this subject up before, but heres a good thread for it so...

Ron L.. has noticed that D. man. grows more "open" in the crown, and the D. malc. is more vertical in its growth. Often pushing the grown point above the soil slightly, where the D. man wants to drop below..

From how I read the POM, the two grow close together in some spots and the D. man can be highly variable... to me that means the possibility of other species lumped as one...

Some plumose, some regular, some heavily "mealy bugged" some not.

Here is one that came in a long time back.. 10 yrs? as Dypsis manajarensis, I believe they were in the same seed batches. But these stayed with regular leaves and minor markings...

[BS Man about Palms]

Oh yes!

Don't EVEN get me started that I think the palm Jerry Anderson brought in as Dypsis malcomberi is the REAL Dypsis pilulifera and the "Bo's Orange crush" has yet to be named.....

(read your POM, and then try to find a new pic of "Jerry's D. malcomberi" in Hawaii....they match, Bo's don't...)

[BS Man about Palms]

Glad I could muddy this up a bit....

[Dypsisdean]

Well, thanks for all the info. Unfortunately it looks as if all my questions will remain unanswered.

Here's a few misc. tidbits of info I have. Maybe they can fill in some gaps and help someone piece this Dypstery together.

- I got one of Mardy's original "Mealy Bugs" way back when. And I remember his now big plant in the ground way before trunking. Both never exhibited any of the dark/red color on the spear or petiole, or any red in the new leaf. In addition, I also got another from Mardy that was supposedly a "Mealy Bug" with no markings. At the time it was said there were "Mealy Bugs" going around that did not have any markings.

- A couple of those who had seen these in habitat told me they saw plants in the area both with and without markings. When people started to realize the similarities between D. manajarensis and malcomberi, several began speculating that perhaps the one without the markings could be D. malcomberi, since POM had declared Mardy's palm to be D. manajarensis.

- I recall my last trip to Ron Lawyer's, and he had a boat load of small palms that if I remember correctly had these pronounced markings and red color. He was calling them "Mealy Bugs." Again if I remember correctly, they appeared more colorful than what he had been offering for years as "Mealy Bugs." My memory is not perfect on this, but I think these may be the same palm that I later saw at Jungle Music labeled as D. malcomberi and that is being pictured in this thread.

- At about the same time (same year or so), Jerry A. got in the "other" D. malcomberi that appeared to be an Orange Crush as a small plant - that has obviously turned out to be something different.

So the confusion remains. I guess my biggest question, and perhaps easiest to answer is, "Is this colorful 'D. malcomberi' the same plant as Mardy's 'Mealy Bug?' In which case it will have to lose the color in both the spear and the new leaf as it matures. If these came into Australia 10 years ago, how big are those now, and do they still exhibit color?

Here's my biggest "Mealy Bug," (5 gal. for scale) coming back after being washed over and buried by a flood. Is this the same palm, just larger and losing it's color? It never had the intense color as the other, even when smaller.

[Bags]

Here is my Mananjarensis that I purchased from Ron. He had both Malcomberi and Mananjarensis and I could not tell the difference. Mine opens a reddish leaf as well. One thing I have noticed is how the first leaflets are very small and as you get down the petiole they get significantly longer. It looks the same with your palm Dean. Like they say, when all things are considered the most logical answer is probably the correct one. IMO they are the same palm.

[BS Man about Palms]

HHmmmm. I don't know. I think many more pictures and opinions need to be posted. (I hope, I hope)

Here is my D. malcomberi from the same batch of 5-6 years ago? Its now in an 18" box and stopped growing.. Still green as can be though...

[Tyrone]

Bill that is one nice healthy specimen you have there and those markings sure look like mealy bugs alright. Kind of makes me wonder what would happen with a palm like that and a mealy bug infestation. It would be hard to tell what was a real mealy bug and what wasn't.

As regards what the palm in the beginning of this thread is, I don't know, but I want one or two or three. I have some D malcomberi's at one and two leaf stage at the moment and they grow much better than D orange crush which all died after stalling for two years. I'm getting some D mananjarensis seeds soon so am excited about what they'll be. Don't you just love Dypsis.

Best regards

Tyrone

[BS Man about Palms]

DDF

Dedicated Dypsis Fan...

But then again, Dean has it for his name..

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Cheers Tyrone and Bill, you DDF you,

hey guys D. mananjarensis and D. malcomberi are two different palms, Bill get out

of the water you've made it muddie and hard to see... .

Hey Dean I've seen pic's of Mardy's original when it looks likeit was just out of

a 5" pot or not much bigger and just planted.

It was actually in a copy(Front page picture) of The Palm Journal Cal, Branch of

course sorry I can't remember the exact year and issue something like 1994-95

I'll see if I can find it and scan it but have a look around guys.

So IMO we have two different palms, but bill the last picture in post 15 looks

to be the third one to confuse many, it looks to me that you actually have

what was know as the 'Highland redneck' D. ovobontsira (not even from the Highlands)

I'll have to get a Pic of D malcomberi, and D mananjarensis at approx the same

age, over here it was a huge saga wot was the true "mealy bug" and that was with

D. mananjarensis, and D. highland redneck, back then it had no name.

IOM even PACSOA picture's are wrong, well like I said thats my view.....and

not many years later in steps the third fighter into the ring. Ha Ha Ha

Regards Mikey....

[LJG]

The plant going around as D. malcomberi is faster then the D. mananjarensis that went around. Plus it has reddish petiole on emerging spear and tends to open orange/red. D. mananjarensis is pretty slow, tends to have green emerging spear and opens green. This is what I noticed anyway.

[MattyB]

funny, both of mine are brown.

[Bags]

Here is a link to some pics of Mardy's palm http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/62060/

I does have some red in the push even as a large palm.

[Dypsisdean]

Here is a link to some pics of Mardy's palm http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/62060/

I does have some red in the push even as a large palm.

Aaron,

There is some color, but I remember that plant as a small plant, and the palms Mardy was selling as even smaller plants, and there was nowhere near the color these "new" ones exhibit.

If you notice, in the title of one of those photos of Mardy's palm, it says that some think it is D. malcomberi now. With two palms (if they are two different palms) looking so similar, it does seem that it might have been a tad premature of POM to declare Mardy's palm as D. manajarensis. It was very small at the time of publication. And I would assume even smaller when being written. Or perhaps it was incorrect to assume that POM was referring to Mardy's palm when it mentioned a palm being referred to in the trade as 'Mealy Bug.'

But it does seem that the consensus of people here seems to be leaning to these as being two different palms. But if so, which is which?

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

I was only stirring ya Bill I reckon ya got D.malcomberi

I'm for D malcomberi taking the 'Mealy Bug' Nic name

wot Do ya reckon guys be nice if J.D could answer a few inquiring

minds at ease....

Mikey

[BS Man about Palms]

Actually Mikey, #15 and #16 are from the same seed batch and grower...

What about my "muddifing" palm in #11 though..... maybe THATS the manajarensis...

[LJG]

Bill,

Not sure how that can be unless this thing really starts to morph into a palm that "scales are white and waxy, with scalloped edges, and are UNIQUE within the genus". This is straight from POM. Since POM has described D. malcomberi also, and has no mention of these scales, I think it is safe to say the two scaley palms referenced here are the same (POM also says there is a lot of variation amongst D. mananjarensis). So one is not D. malcomberi unless POM is wrong.

I think your #11 and/or Jerry Andersen's palm is possibly D. malcomberi. The fact #11 grew outside and looks fine in SoCal winters, it might be a safe bet it is from the south where D. malcomberi comes from. What say you?

[BS Man about Palms]

I say I need a trip to Madagascar to know for sure... I'll start the drive for donations.......................... NOW!

[Bags]

Dean,

I am not suggesting that Malcomberi and Mananjarensis are the same palm, but rather that all of the "Mealy Bug" seedlings are the same palm. Maybe one or the other has not made its way into cultivation or is being misslabled. I know some of the colors are different, but look how colorful Bills Palm is compared to mine yet they are from the same seller. The leaf arangement and mealy bug markings look very similar in the "mealy Bug" seedlings. The "Mealy Bug" markings are so unique I would be surprised if there were two species with the same markings. The Mananjarensis that Floribunda sells have no "Mealy Bug" markings. Is this a different species than what we have or do they develope with age? Lastly I am by no means an expert so don't take anything I say to seriously.

[Hilo Jason]

Here's mine that I acquired this summer. It's labeled as Malcomberi and that's what the seed came in as in 2003. I was told that it was only 1 of 2 that germinated out of a couple hundred seeds. Whatever it is, I love it!

These pictures were taken a few months ago when I first got it, it has opened one new leaf since I've had it and it was not red, just green. The new spear that is just starting to show in my second picture is now about 10" tall.

[BS Man about Palms]

Dean,

I am not suggesting that Malcomberi and Mananjarensis are the same palm, but rather that all of the "Mealy Bug" seedlings are the same palm. Maybe one or the other has not made its way into cultivation or is being misslabled. I know some of the colors are different, but look how colorful Bills Palm is compared to mine yet they are from the same seller. The leaf arangement and mealy bug markings look very similar in the "mealy Bug" seedlings. The "Mealy Bug" markings are so unique I would be surprised if there were two species with the same markings. The Mananjarensis that Floribunda sells have no "Mealy Bug" markings. Is this a different species than what we have or do they develope with age? Lastly I am by no means an expert so don't take anything I say to seriously.

Aaron, my mistake, mine in #16 did not come from Ron. I was thinking yours in the ground was Fallbrook Jasons....

Jason, post a pic!!

Timing is everything...really.

Edited November 27, 2010 by BS Man about Palms

[BS Man about Palms]

So. To set the record straight, #16 and #29 are the TWO that germinated from that batch of I thought 100 seeds.. from the same seller.

The MOST impressive thing is what Jason's looked like 2 years ago....it was COVERED in REAL mealybugs and near dead... nice recovery.

[BS Man about Palms]

Jerry, while you are reading this, you should post an updated pic of "your" malcomberi.... Please?

[Dypsisdean]

Dean,

I am not suggesting that Malcomberi and Mananjarensis are the same palm, but rather that all of the "Mealy Bug" seedlings are the same palm.

Aaron,

You could very well be right. I understood you to say that the actual D. man and D. mal are not the same palm, but rather the palms "labeled" in this thread as D. mal and D. man are the same palm. However, it appears to me that others are suggesting they are different.

Len made several good points that I agree with.

The plant going around as D. malcomberi is faster than the D. mananjarensis that went around. Plus it has reddish petiole on emerging spear and tends to open orange/red. D. mananjarensis is pretty slow, tends to have green emerging spear and opens green.

He also quoted a very important statement from POM - "scales are white and waxy, with scalloped edges, and are UNIQUE within the genus" - referring to D. man.

So taken alone, this info would indicate we have a palm that is variable like D. prestoniana and the D. baronii complex - where one var. exhibits differing growth characteristics, and that may also have many different color variations as it passes through the juvenile stages (and even as adults) - but they are the same species.

But, having said all that, it is still puzzling to me why several different seed batches could have come in labeled as D. mal for a palm fairly well known (D. man), and that should be fairly easily identified as D. man in the field. In addition, why are some apparently speculating that Mardy's palm is in fact D. mal?

To further complicate matters, here is some info from POM about D. mal under the sub-section "Similar Specimens." It mentions two collections from similar palms. And one was referred to as "very ornamental," "with leaves having a large waxy sheath; the leaflets grouped, with lines of small scattered scales, and of similar size to D. mal" Also, puzzling to me is that I would assume that any seedling looking like this colorful "Mealy Bug," if seen in habitat, would have attracted immediate attention and some mention from explorers and/or collectors. But I have yet to hear of any such mention. I would also assume that if this beautiful color on the petiole and emerging spear persisted into adulthood, along with a red emerging leaf, we would also have heard some reference to these characteristics.

[Daryl]

The one thing that I always wonder about is when the palms are described, are the descriptions always based on mature palms? Most of the Dypsis I've seen have all these different petiole markings as seedlings, but as they get older the scales/mealybug etc all disappear, or change to a different form. How can we compare markings on seedlings or juveniles to those of mature palms?

Great topic BTW Dean!

Daryl

[John Dransfield]

I´ve gone through this topic very rapidly - I am away from home at present, in Chile, and do not have access to POM etc.

Here are some thoughts.

D. malcomberi and D. mananjarensis are perfectly distinct species - of course, otherwise we would not have described malcomberi as new in POM. D mananjarensis is very widespread - from near Toamasina to Ft Dauphin. IT is variable - like almost all palms. The character that allows us immediately to identify it is the presence of mealy bug scales. It would be so much easier if you would all accept that what you have growing with mealy bug scales is ib fact D. manajarensis and that seeds imported as malcomberi that produce seedlings with mealy bug scales were incorrectly identified. Incidentally, the habitat where D. malcomberi grows is generally much higher than any mananjarensis grows, which helps in the identification. I remember collecting the real thing in 1989 and there was not a mealy bug in sight.

If there is distinct variation in the mealy bug plants you are growing then there is, of course, always the possibility that there may be more than one palm involved - but that would not be malcomberi.

It was not premature to state in POM that mealy bug scaloes are confined to mananjarensis. As far as we know from recent material, it is still true to say so.

I am not back home until later this week so do not expect any rapid further comments.

All best

John

[BS Man about Palms]

Thanks for checking in JD.

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for that John thats put lots of light on the

subject excellent... hope your enjoying Chile

Regards Mikey.

[Dypsisdean]

Thank You John for taking the time to chime in while away from home.

[Dypsisdean]

So, what I am taking away from the discussion so far is:

- Palms that have been sold as the "Mealy Bug" through the years that have no markings are not really "Mealy Bugs" (D. mananjarensis)

- Palms with the markings (and color) that have been sold as D. malcomberi are really "Mealy Bugs."

- And what the real D. malcomberi is, and if anybody is growing it in cultivation, is anybody's guess.

Agree or disagree???

[MattyB]

Agree. Good summary DeanO, that was very helpful. And thanks to JD for his expert breakdown.

So, assuming we can lay the D. manajarensis topic to rest for a while (at least in this thread), what plants, besides any mealy bug types, are going around as Dypsis malcomberi? The only one I've seen is the one that looks like the Orange Crush as a seedling, but has no ramenta. See pics below.