Caryota maxima Himalaya

[Exotic Life]

Hi,

I can't remember a topic of this palm. I was checking the palm seeds list on RPS and when i read the following woords i was thinking maybe i can try that one here ?

Though known in cultivation for a while now, especially in California where it is grown under the name Caryota urens or “Mountain Form,” this fabulous, hardy species still is rarely seen around. It is a fairly large, vigorous, and extremely fast-growing tree (up to 2 m (6.5 ft) per year) with a dense crown. This Fishtail is frequently seen growing semi-wild in the foothills of the central and eastern Himalayas up to 2400 m (7800 ft) a.s.l. As indicated by its habitat, and by experience from cultivation, it is by far the most cold tolerant Fishtail Palm, guaranteed to stand up happily to cold winters with snow and moderate frosts to -7°C (19°F).

Are there people on this board that have this palm growing ? Lowest tempeture ? Picture's ?

Is the weather very hot in the Himalaya when it is summer ?

Robbin

[Zac in NC]

All reports I have heard are they are pretty tender and don't regrow very fast after being damaged. These are the reports I have heard from the SE US. I know some other members are growing this one( Alberto for one I know). It is just another example of Gibbons and Spanner being a bit overly optimistic about the hardiness of some species they sell. Pandanus furcatus is another like that. It may be the hardiest Pandan, but its not that hardy, to the mid to low 20s I believe. Just my two cents worth.

Zac

[Paul S]

Same in England: leaves are damaged with surprisingly little frost and re-growth is pitiful.  I have read that various things are required to speed up growth - copious water, copious feed, copious heat or any/all of those things in combination.  But I still don't know of anyone who has had success.  Not so easy to kill, mind you - mine suffered a long, drawn out, lingering death for about 4 years.... would have been a candidate for the 'most miserable palm' thread for sure.

[Alan_Tampa]

Mine is a trooper and has not been a disappointment at all.

Here is an older pic to show growth, see inset in pic which is at time of planting.  I will dig out a newer one ASAP.

(time is April 2003 to Nov 2004)

Alan

[redant]

I have 3 "bunches" of these. When purchased they where planted as triples in 3 gal containers. 2 I placed in an area with irrigation. Of the 2 irrigated palms each had a dominant plant with 2 weaker ones. The first set of hurricanes killed one of the dominant of the three, Wilma killed the other dominate palm. Now they are both doubles and finally are starting to look nice again.

The little lost palm that had no irrigation never suffered in the storms as it was still so small. This summer I started to leave a hose trickling at the base of this guy, I can't believe how much it grew in one summer.

No real cold to speak of since I have owned these so I cant help there but in FL give lots of water they skyrocket.

[Guest]

I am surprised California growers aren't jumping in here considering the hundreds seen in the landscapes of southern CA, and even a lot of beautiful specimens in northern CA.  The San Francisco area has huge seeding trees already which have actually produced volunteer seedlings on the ground below.  Probably because of the hardening to cold which occurs there by the very long cooling autumns, cold hardiness is seemingly somehwere around 20°F. with some leaf spotting.

[LJG]

Caryota urens is everywhere in SoCal. While I have never heard of any Caryota gigas flowering here, I have seen tons of Caryota urens flower and die. The growth cycle is TOO short for my taste. I know of two locations where two dead C. urens are in priavte gardens. Both were about 15 years old. One grown from seed in Encinitas! Very hard to remove once dead. The wood is so hard it chews up chain saws and it is a large tree by the time it flowers. I understand 15 years is along time. But once that 15 years is up, it really was not that long. Having to deal with removing it is a pain. Especially when you probably have some valuable other stuff planted around it. The people I have talked to said they would never plant them again. I am actually going to do some Gigas. But they will be planted to where I can 'pluck' them with a crane years down the road.

I have heard various rumors as to what can make Caryotas flower more rapidly. 1) Stress or injury. 2) Plating from larger box size. 3) Over fertilizing. Of course I have no idea. Maybe #2 and #1 are related.

[Zac in NC]

I thought it was Caryota maxima, not urens. Now I am all confused.

Zac

[LJG]

Hmmm. Did not read the subject, only this:

"Though known in cultivation for a while now, especially in California where it is grown under the name Caryota urens or “Mountain Form,” this fabulous, hardy species still is rarely seen around."

[Alberto]

Hier kun je een paar prachtige fotos bewonderen van de´´hardy´´ himalayan fishtail: ...Grapje!!

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....imalaya

[ghar41]

(Zac in NC @ Dec. 19 2006,16:25)

QUOTE

I thought it was Caryota maxima, not urens. Now I am all confused.

Zac

...years ago this plant was sold as Caryota urens "Mountain form."  I guess taxonimists got involved as it is currently Caryota maxima "Himalaya."  

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this...I have posted Caryota questionairres on this board because I am certainly no expert on this genus.  

My C.m "himalaya" qualifies as a twerp.  Slow as molasis.  NOTHING kills it or makes it grow.

[Exotic Life]

Thanx for the reactions on my question, but there are diffrent experience's. But also bad experience from england ?

Pff then it's maybe nothing for here, i was thinking to know that i must try this palm and see what coming then ...

Robbin

[Exotic Life]

(Alberto @ Dec. 19 2006,19:23)

QUOTE

Hier kun je een paar prachtige fotos bewonderen van de´´hardy´´ himalayan fishtail: ...Grapje!!

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....imalaya

Hi,

Nu ik dit topic zie, kan ik het me weer herrineren. Dus ook geen goede ervaringen ermee.

Now i see this topic i can remember it again. So you have also not good experience with that palm.

Robbin

[tank]

Have had a small one in the ground in Gainesville FL for 1 winter.  Planted it after reading only optimistic estimates of its cold hardiness.  Probably wouldn't have bothered if I had been privileged to some of the more negative first hand accounts.  I don't expect it to last for any length of time.  It saw ~25F last year without protection during a brief overnight freeze during a rather warm winter.  No real visible damage other than very minor leaf spotting (spots may have been there before the freeze).  During the summer it only put up three new leaves with ample water and fertilizer.  Right now it is only a meter tall.  At this point I'd classify it under "Doomed Experiments".

During a usual winter we see at least a couple nights in the low 20Fs and in the 12 years I've lived here I think we've had 3 or so upper teen nights.  This year’s low is 29F at my house.

[M@ximus]

Ciao  Robbin !!

I  have    some  seedling ,of  3  years old ,

and  seems   to  grow  very  well  here  in  Rome

I  keep them  on  a  open  space,  just  repaired  from  north  cold  wind

next  year  I  will  try  to  put  1 or 2  on  the  ground

the  seeds  become  from RPS

Ciao  M@x

[Don Little]

I bought one and planted it in june of 05 from a 15 gallon.  When I planted it it was only about 5 1/2 feet to the top frond and now 1 1/2 years later it's top frond is 15 feet.  I have a current photo posted on another thread, but it is by far the fastest palm I have ever seen.  I bought is as C urens from a place that also sells C maxima, so not sure what the official classification is.

[ron@springhammock]

Started several from seed and they were somewhat slow to start, with one or two leaves per year the first couple of years and now at maybe three to four leaves at 2 meters tall.   They don't put out a lot of leaves but they snowball with each new leaf at about 1.5 times the size of the previous.  I haven't had any really cold winters lately, but I suspect they may be one of these plants that can't tolerate frost well but handle freezing temps as long as the dew point is way low.  For insurance, I planted mine under a very high canopy.