5 essential rare palms for Northern California

[ghar41]

The SoCal post was fun so let's copy.  Ok NoCal fans how about (in no particular order:)

Brahea moorei

Brahea decumbens

Jubaeopsis caffra

Trachycarpus nanus

Butia archerii

(I left out the Butia hybrids, but they certainly belong on this list!)

[Gileno Machado]

Hi Glenn:

For what I've seen in San Francisco area, in your climate I would certainly try:

Rhopalostylis sapida

Parajubaea cocoides

Chamaerops humilis var. cerifera

Jubaea chilensis

Chamaedorea adscendens

I think these are all lovely species and easily adaptable to your local conditions. Ask Darold Petty about his opinion on these...

[paulgila]

what about ceroxylon?

i saw some nice ones at one of the botanical gardens up there a few years ago...

[ghar41]

(Gileno Machado @ Dec. 18 2006,11:48)

QUOTE

Hi Glenn:

For what I've seen in San Francisco area, in your climate I would certainly try:

Rhopalostylis sapida

Parajubaea cocoides

Chamaerops humilis var. cerifera

Jubaea chilensis

Chamaedorea adscendens

I think these are all lovely species and easily adaptable to your local conditions. Ask Darold Petty about his opinion on these...

Great choices!

Yes, I am currently growing the first four but I am unfamiliar with C. adscendens.  Does it have a synonym?

I guess it's safe to say that NoCal is a more diverse category than SoCal.  I am very different here than SF. (historic low of 18F and high of 113F.) I haven't tried any Ceroxylon yet, but I believe larger plants of this genus that grew above the friendly confines near the ground, would scorch in our dry, torrid summers.  R. sapida is really pushing it here...

Any other NoCal wish lists?

[MattyB]

Dypsis decipiens!

[Kathy]

(ghar41 @ Dec. 18 2006,12:13)

QUOTE

 R. sapida is really pushing it here...

[ghar41]

(Kathy @ Dec. 18 2006,15:27)

QUOTE

(ghar41 @ Dec. 18 2006,12:13)

QUOTE

 R. sapida is really pushing it here...

My 2 little sapida's are happy so far.  They're still in pots unprotected and have seen about 31F in their location so far this winter, and are going in the ground at the pool in the spring.  Right now, they're far away from the pool, and survived the summer in the shade just fine (trying to remember our high, but plenty days at 100F).  I don't know how my humidity is different than your's, tho' I'm closer to the Delta waters than you.

I'd consider sapida's a great "rare" or not-common palm for NorCal.

[Jeff Searle]

I know Chamaedorea radicalis will take down into the loowww 20's. I'm not sure how cold though, but it would be worth trying. it will help give that tropical look. :cool:

Jeff

[ghar41]

Dypsis decipiens has tremendous potential here.  I continue to hear lower and lower extremes in cold temperature tolerance for this magnificent tree.  I have a couple in the ground but as you know...  S - L - O - W

C. radicalis is a super performer here.  I use it every where there is some shade.  I know of at least one residence here in Modesto that has a good size stand of this plant that survived 19F in 1990.  Ditto with C. microspadix at that same location.

[PalmGuyWC]

In 1990 my lowest low was about 14F.....and that's cold folks.  Both my C. microspadix and C. radicalis were stressed, to say the least, but most looked fine again in about a year.  Some of the canes were killed on the C. microspadix, but most survived.  Very few of the C. radicalis were killed, but the trunking form seems to be somewhat more sensitive to cold.  Most survived and some didn't.  I think it's safe to say both of these Chams. will take the upper teens with no damage.  I use them all over my garden where there is dappled shade.  They both take a good bit of sun, but look better with some mid day shade.  These two are my favorites, because they are about all I can grow in my climate, but they are very robust here and look very happy.  I actually think they prefer cool nights, as mine seem to be more robust than the ones I see growing in Miami.  The seedlings come up all over my garden where there is some shade and moisture.  In fact, I let them plant themselves as they seem to find the nitches in my garden that they prefer.  An added bonus are their beautiful orange/red fruit which add a splash of color to the garden.

OK, this is supposed to be about the 5 "must haves" for N. Calif.  Put the two above on my list.

I would also add Rhapis to the list if you have a wind protected area to grow them....and some dappled shade.  I have some in the ground that have been growing there for over 30 years.  They were damaged in the big freeze, but they came back.....slowly.  In fact, a few canes were killed, but this only promoted suckers to come from the base, and they look better now than ever.  I wouldn't recomend Rhapis for San Francisco....just to cool, unless you grow them inside, and they are probably the ultimate potted palm.  They are tough, but they don't like wind or to much sun.

There is no way I can pick out "5 must haves," because I like them all.  If one lived away from the Bay and hotter and cooler weather, Nannahrops and Brahea armata are definately on the list, but then so would be Butias, and Jubaeas....if you have the room.

Tracheycarpus wagneranus would be on the top of my list.  Even as a small palm.....it's spectacular and suited for small gardens and it's tough and will take the elements.  No damage at 14F and they grow in Canada.

Chamaehrops is a great palm for the Bay Area......It's hardy and there are so many forms to chouse from......It will grow in San Francisco....slowly....and fast in the inland valleys where we have hot summers.

There are about a dozen other palms I could put on the list......but I've already gone to far.  I would put Dypsis diciepiens on the list, but I've already killed two.  I'll probably try again.

Dick

[J. Ingram]

Hmmmm...

Though not rare, I think Bismarkia is very underutilized in N. California.  So:

1.  Bismarkia Nobilis

2.  Caryota Ochlandra (rare here, seems to be cold hardy so far)

3.  Phoenix Pusilla (very uncommon, different look)

4.  Syagrus Loefgrenii (sp?)  I'm giving it a shot.... so far so good.

5.  Euterpe Edulis (maybe pushing it, but very beautiful)

[ghar41]

(J. Ingram @ Dec. 19 2006,15:46)

QUOTE

Hmmmm...

Though not rare, I think Bismarkia is very underutilized in N. California.  So:

1.  Bismarkia Nobilis

2.  Caryota Ochlandra (rare here, seems to be cold hardy so far)

3.  Phoenix Pusilla (very uncommon, different look)

4.  Syagrus Loefgrenii (sp?)  I'm giving it a shot.... so far so good.

5.  Euterpe Edulis (maybe pushing it, but very beautiful)

Very interesting choices! Four of these palms I have either considered or are currently "giving a try."

Well my early guess is that Bismarkia nobilis is more freeze tolerant than previously thought.  It is way early to tell what last nights effect will be but, if there is a silver lining, it is that we will answer some questions about specific plants tolerance to freezing weather.

But... back to palms...B. nobilis is quite a tree and would take NoCal by storm.

I have C. urens, maxima "himalaya" and gigas in the ground so I think Ochlandra is an interesting possibility!  I have always shied away from it because of what I have read.  Better to try it out for ourselves.

P pusilla is also quite interesting, very unusual in appearance.  I will say that my small P. rupicola's have telltale dark splotches on many of the leaves this morning (freeze damage.)  I have P. lourerii "humilis", they looked to have faired better.

S. Loefgrenii is completely unknown to me.  Is there a synonym?

Euterpe edulis would be incredible!  I would plant it everywhere.  I, along with many other NoCal's am still trying to grow with some success Wodyetia bifurcata and someone, somewhere in prime Zone 16 needs to give Roystonea a try.  I might give E. edulis a try somewhere in a protected spot.

James do you attend any No Cal palm society meetings?

[ghar41]

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 19 2006,14:36)

QUOTE

In 1990 my lowest low was about 14F.....and that's cold folks.  Both my C. microspadix and C. radicalis were stressed, to say the least, but most looked fine again in about a year.  Some of the canes were killed on the C. microspadix, but most survived.  Very few of the C. radicalis were killed, but the trunking form seems to be somewhat more sensitive to cold.  Most survived and some didn't.  I think it's safe to say both of these Chams. will take the upper teens with no damage.  I use them all over my garden where there is dappled shade.  They both take a good bit of sun, but look better with some mid day shade.  These two are my favorites, because they are about all I can grow in my climate, but they are very robust here and look very happy.  I actually think they prefer cool nights, as mine seem to be more robust than the ones I see growing in Miami.  The seedlings come up all over my garden where there is some shade and moisture.  In fact, I let them plant themselves as they seem to find the nitches in my garden that they prefer.  An added bonus are their beautiful orange/red fruit which add a splash of color to the garden.

OK, this is supposed to be about the 5 "must haves" for N. Calif.  Put the two above on my list.

I would also add Rhapis to the list if you have a wind protected area to grow them....and some dappled shade.  I have some in the ground that have been growing there for over 30 years.  They were damaged in the big freeze, but they came back.....slowly.  In fact, a few canes were killed, but this only promoted suckers to come from the base, and they look better now than ever.  I wouldn't recomend Rhapis for San Francisco....just to cool, unless you grow them inside, and they are probably the ultimate potted palm.  They are tough, but they don't like wind or to much sun.

There is no way I can pick out "5 must haves," because I like them all.  If one lived away from the Bay and hotter and cooler weather, Nannahrops and Brahea armata are definately on the list, but then so would be Butias, and Jubaeas....if you have the room.

Tracheycarpus wagneranus would be on the top of my list.  Even as a small palm.....it's spectacular and suited for small gardens and it's tough and will take the elements.  No damage at 14F and they grow in Canada.

Chamaehrops is a great palm for the Bay Area......It's hardy and there are so many forms to chouse from......It will grow in San Francisco....slowly....and fast in the inland valleys where we have hot summers.

There are about a dozen other palms I could put on the list......but I've already gone to far.  I would put Dypsis diciepiens on the list, but I've already killed two.  I'll probably try again.

Dick

Dick,

Agreed.  These palms are the staples of my garden and are an absolute must for any beginning NoCal palm grower.  Sometimes we (myself included) get caught up in trying to grow the marginal stuff we fail to recoginize the obvious:

1. Chamerops humilis  is one of the most beautiful and variable palms in the world.  In SoCal, with so many choices, they still plant tons of them.

2.  Rhaphis, C. radicalis and microspadix, and Arenga elglerii can give any shady area the looks of the tropics without risk of decline.  As does T. f "wag" in the open sun.

3.  Jubea chilensis and Brahea armata are admired by palm enthusiasts all over the world and they absolutely THRIVE in our area.

I would have to say that Dypsis decipiens and Bismarkia nobilis are two palms with the greatest untapped potiential for Northern California.

Too bad they are both so dog gone SLOW!

[PalmGuyWC]

If you noticed, I only listed the hard and proven kind of palms.  Just because they are common doesn't mean that they can't be beautiful and properly placed in a landscape.......Wow!! I have always planted very conservitively with proven hardiness.  Well, it does get cold here.....was 23.5 F this morning and 113F this past July.

I think it's great that you guys are trying some of the newer introductions into culture.  Recently I've been trying a few "iffy" ones, such as Bismarkia.  I really don't think Bismarkia will be a permanent fixture in Walnut Creek...but we will see what developes. I just had a walk around and I see no damage to any of the palms, but often it takes several weeks until damage shows up. Fingers crossed that tonight won't be so cold.

All of my cannas were cut to the ground last night......and the elephant ears....but they should come back next spring.

Most interesting to me now are the new Parajubaeas that have become available in the past few years and the cocosoid hybrids being produced by "The Man" in N. Calif.  Most of his hybrids should be very hardy as they have either Butia or Jubaea blood in them.  My most prized palm right now is a Butia X Parajubea.  It seems to be growing slowly even in the winter.

Dick

[Jim in Los Altos]

*Syagrus sancona, the South American foxtail, one of my favorites and flourishing for years in my garden.

*Rhapis excelsa in full sun or shade does fantastically in my garden.

*Howea forsteriana, a common but beautiful palm for partial shade.

*Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I'm seeing more and more of these. I have three that survived the 1990 freeze. Got down to 22F here back then.

*Chamaedorea cataractum, incredibly robust in shade to part sun as long as you give 'em plenty of water and snail bate!

***Wodyetia bifurcata, mine are trunking now and look good. Best of all they seem to flourish under the protection of large trees in the shade and grow fast as long as it's not deep shade. My trunking one in full sun does better each winter with less and less leaf spotting each year as it gets taller.

****Roystonea borenquena, I planted mine as a two leaf seedling directly in the ground in full sun three years ago and, although not fast, its a healthy two feet tall now. It's at least worth a try in zones 16 and 17 since it tolerates cool weather better than other Roystonea species.

[DoomsDave]

I think all of the Ceroxies could roxie up in No-Cal.

Here, well, near the coast, okay, elsewhere . . ..

When I went up to Sam Frank's Disco in 2000, the Queen Palms were everywhere.  Yeah, yeah, not rare, but, I think, formerly.

I'd certainly try some Syagrus, schizophylla, coronoata, picrophylla, vagrans (sho' nuff' funky) and more.

dave

[Alicehunter2000]

I wonder if these N. Cali palms would work here in N. Florida. Seems our temps may be closer to the same than I previously thought. Many of the palms listed would work here, such as C. radicalis and C. microspadix etc.. Some, however, I have no idea. Would be willing to give Bismarkia a try. What about those hybrid butia's? Anyone have access to seed or seedlings of these here in Fl.?

David

[Kathy]

(Jim in Los Altos @ Dec. 19 2006,23:44)

QUOTE

*Syagrus sancona, the South American foxtail, one of my favorites and flourishing for years in my garden.

*Rhapis excelsa in full sun or shade does fantastically in my garden.

*Howea forsteriana, a common but beautiful palm for partial shade.

*Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I'm seeing more and more of these. I have three that survived the 1990 freeze. Got down to 22F here back then.

*Chamaedorea cataractum, incredibly robust in shade to part sun as long as you give 'em plenty of water and snail bate!

***Wodyetia bifurcata, mine are trunking now and look good. Best of all they seem to flourish under the protection of large trees in the shade and grow fast as long as it's not deep shade. My trunking one in full sun does better each winter with less and less leaf spotting each year as it gets taller.

****Roystonea borenquena, I planted mine as a two leaf seedling directly in the ground in full sun three years ago and, although not fast, its a healthy two feet tall now. It's at least worth a try in zones 16 and 17 since it tolerates cool weather better than other Roystonea species.

These would be some of my choices also, for uncommon additions to more NorCal gardens.

I've been reluctant to try Rhapis because I've heard they abhor hard water.  I'll probably try one this next year as an experiment, but I'm not hopeful as my water is as hard as it gets.

Good to hear your sancona is doing well.  It's on my wish list for spring.  And good to hear your Wodyetia are getting better with age, since I've been hoping for that here.  And I'll be planting borenquena in the spring.  I think that may prove to be a winner for NorCal also.  Especially if the big boxes started carrying them like they are the Wodyetia now.

[ghar41]

(Kathy @ Dec. 20 2006,12:51)

QUOTE

(Jim in Los Altos @ Dec. 19 2006,23:44)

QUOTE

*Syagrus sancona, the South American foxtail, one of my favorites and flourishing for years in my garden.

*Rhapis excelsa in full sun or shade does fantastically in my garden.

*Howea forsteriana, a common but beautiful palm for partial shade.

*Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I'm seeing more and more of these. I have three that survived the 1990 freeze. Got down to 22F here back then.

*Chamaedorea cataractum, incredibly robust in shade to part sun as long as you give 'em plenty of water and snail bate!

***Wodyetia bifurcata, mine are trunking now and look good. Best of all they seem to flourish under the protection of large trees in the shade and grow fast as long as it's not deep shade. My trunking one in full sun does better each winter with less and less leaf spotting each year as it gets taller.

****Roystonea borenquena, I planted mine as a two leaf seedling directly in the ground in full sun three years ago and, although not fast, its a healthy two feet tall now. It's at least worth a try in zones 16 and 17 since it tolerates cool weather better than other Roystonea species.

These would be some of my choices also, for uncommon additions to more NorCal gardens.

I've been reluctant to try Rhapis because I've heard they abhor hard water.  I'll probably try one this next year as an experiment, but I'm not hopeful as my water is as hard as it gets.

Good to hear your sancona is doing well.  It's on my wish list for spring.  And good to hear your Wodyetia are getting better with age, since I've been hoping for that here.  And I'll be planting borenquena in the spring.  I think that may prove to be a winner for NorCal also.  Especially if the big boxes started carrying them like they are the Wodyetia now.

Very cool choices Jim and Kathy!  

I am also trying all of these.  My R. borinquenea is still at the seed stage so needless to say it will be a looong time before I can report any progress.  I know I am really pushing it here in the valley with this species but what the heck!

Kathy, I did recieve some really nice one gallon S. sancona plants barerooted from Floribunda in HI.  They were really nice size when I got them and they were very reasonable in price.  You probably already have worked with Jeff Marcus there, he's great.

[Kathy]

Thanks Glen.  I've noticed Jeff has had some sancona.  I'll just be checking for any larger in SoCal first, sometime after the first of the year.

Will be interested to monitor your reports from Modesto.  Keep 'em coming.

[Jeff Searle]

Boy,

Looking at this list, which is getting quite lenghty, you all will be growing most everthing that BO in Hawaii is growing.

Jeff

[ghar41]

(Jeff Searle @ Dec. 20 2006,15:22)

QUOTE

Boy,

Looking at this list, which is getting quite lenghty, you all will be growing most everthing that BO in Hawaii is growing.

Jeff

Did I mention my Licuala's?    

[Jon T]

How about these for Nor Cal coastal OR inland:copernicia alba; guihaia argyrata; the obvious livistonas, plus alfredii, fulva, muellerii, and victoriae; phoenix sylvestris; and trachycarpus martianus or princeps. I think they'd mostly all survive long-term without protection in most 9b places.

Jon T

[PalmGuyWC]

I just read through this thread again, and I thought of a couple of others that were not mentioned and they are tough as nails in Sunset zone 14.  While not rare on the East coast, they are pretty darn rare and underutilized in California.

That would  be Rhapidophyllum and Serenoa.  Rhapidophyllum is probably the most cold hardy palm on earth, and while kind of slow, they can be quite beautiful....looking something like giant Rhapis.  I have found that, grown inland from the Bay, that Rhapidophyllum prefers a good bit of shade, as they tend to bleach out in hot summer sun. I have one that has grown into a giant, about 8' high to the tip of the fronds and about 12' wide and it has several trunks. Just to the south of it there is a large Phoenix that has grown up and shades it from mid day sun.  It seems to be quite happy and it's also wind protected.  I have several scattered around the garden.  Their one requirement is heat.  The large one lived in San Francisco for about 3 years.....and it just "exhisted" and no growth.  It said "thank you" and started to grow when it moved to Walnut Creek.

Serenoa is considered a weed in Florida and S. Georgia and they grow there by the millions.  Serenoa is a variable palm and can range in color from lime green to blue-grey, to silver.  Some that I've seen on the West coast of Florida form trunks 15' high, while most of them grow from rhizomes and remain trunkless.

Again, this a palm that likes heat, and they do quite well for me.  I think they prefer a sandy soil, but I have adobe clay, and they shouldn't be over watered in the summer time.  I have had a couple of "heads" to rot out with to much water.  They will take full sun where I live, but maybe need a little protection from the hot afternoon sun.  They make great container palms for many years and look really neat on my deck.

Serenoa is a tough palm and they are wind resistant.  They should take temps. down to 15F with little damage.  I have seen them take it much lower in their native habitat in S. Georgia.  In their habitat, growing under native pine trees, they are subjected to forest fires.  In no time, you see the green fronds emerging from the ashes, and they are one of the first plants to reestablish in a burned out area.

This might be a good palm to grow in parts of Australia.  Are any of you guys growing them down there?

Dick

[Matt N- Dallas]

I am not in N. CA, but I can attest to the cold hardiness of c. radicalis and c. microspadix.  Both have been reliably cold hardy for me here in N. TX.  Both can handle upper teens without damage.  Prolonged temps in the teens (below 18*) does give them some burn.  I use them in shady spots around my house.  I have planted c. microspadix around my air conditioner to hide the looks of it.  Both are tough, reliable palms.  Rhapidophyllum are very hardy -even into some parts of z6 (w/ hot summers).  I have some growing in Kansas City, Mo- z6.

[PalmGuyWC]

Hi Matt,

It blows my mind that palms are being grown in "expanding" areas, such as Atlanta and Kansas City and even Long Island.  I used to think I was on the ragged edge of where palms could be grown, and now I'm begining to feel sub tropical.....but I know it ain't so....was 23.5F here on the 19th.  Anyway, it's a lot of fun and new things are being discovered all the time.

I just wish somehow the hardy DNA from Rhapidophyllum could be injected into some of the tropical beauties and then we would have a lot more to grow.   With the advance of science...who knows....maybe one day it will be possible.  Now, it seems hybridizing is the only way to increase the hardiness of palms

I'm really quite excited about the cocosoid palms that "The Man" is hybridizing up here in N. Cailf.  Soon there should be half a dozen new palms for those of us in marginal areas.

I'm curious, how does Chamaerops do in Dallas or San Antonio or Austin?

Dick

[Matt N- Dallas]

HI Dick,

Chamaerops do great in TX- from DFW southward.  I am growing both the humilis and cerifera.  I think the cerifera are stunning- as blue gray as a nice brahea armata.  Two of my cerifera seem to be slightly more cold hardy than the regular chamaerops.  All of the chamaerops are very hardy to: drought, cold and heat, but they were my only palms to get scale a couple of years ago.  I caught the scale early and got rid of it.  I'm also growing butia x jubaea, butiagrus and a butiagrus that is 75% butia x 25% syagrus.   I have a jubaea growing successfully although it is slow.  I too am excited about the new cocosoid hybrids being developed.  This will provide some very nice pinnate choices for zone 8.

[SunnyFl]

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 23 2006,13:00)

QUOTE

I'm really quite excited about the cocosoid palms that "The Man" is hybridizing up here in N. Cailf.  Soon there should be half a dozen new palms for those of us in marginal areas.

Cocosid?  

Did I miss something?

What izit?

[ghar41]

I saw the So Cal "essential" list bump so I thought it might be interesting to revisit this 8 year old post. Over the years I have discovered other palms (and learned from suggestions given on this thread) and have had many years to test them here at my place and have seen them grow in other cold environments. Ive changed my view so here is my latest humble opinion. It includes only those palms that will grow both here and in the more benign climates of the bay area. If it were a bay area list only, Hedyscepe would certainly be on this list!

1. Dypsis decipiens

2. Brahea mooreii

3. Parajubaea sunkha

4. Chamaedorea benziei

5 Rhopalostylus sapida

Post your list!

[Alicehunter2000]

J. caffra is always awsome.....very few out there.....great coconut look for Cali

[Jim in Los Altos]

For Nor CA:

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Chuniophoenix nana

Jubaeopsopis caffra

Rhapis multifida

Trachycarpus martianus

For Bay Area:

Ceroxylon alpinum

Hedescepe canterburyana

Rhopalostylis baueri

Howea forsteriana

Parajubaea torallyi

For warmer Bay Area microclimates:

Archontophoenix species

Foxy Lady

Roystonea borinquena

Chambeyronia species

Bismarkia nobilis

If I could have more than five more on the last list they would be Prichardia species, Clinostigma savoryanum, Chamaedorea woodsoniana, costaricana, and oblongata, Dypsis saintlucia, baronii, onilahensis, Actinokentia divarticata, Cyphophoenix elegans, Licuala peltata,'sumowongii, and ramsayi.

[Rafael]

For Nor CA:

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Chuniophoenix nana

Jubaeopsopis caffra

Rhapis multifida

Trachycarpus martianus

For Bay Area:

Ceroxylon alpinum

Hedescepe canterburyana

Rhopalostylis baueri

Howea forsteriana

Parajubaea torallyi

For warmer Bay Area microclimates:

Archontophoenix species

Foxy Lady

Roystonea borinquena

Chambeyronia species

Bismarkia nobilis

If I could have more than five more on the last list they would be Prichardia species, Clinostigma savoryanum, Chamaedorea woodsoniana, costaricana, and oblongata, Dypsis saintlucia, baronii, onilahensis, Actinokentia divarticata, Cyphophoenix elegans, Licuala peltata,'sumowongii, and ramsayi.

Extended list

But i would add some more: thrinax radiata, ptychosperma elegans, syagrus coronata and sancona, cyphophoenix alba and nucele, ravenea sambiranensis and krociana, woodyetia, dictyosperma rubrum, lytocarium...

[Josh-O]

everyone should be growing foxy lady's up there IMO

I would chime in with chuniophoenix hainanensis (ive seen them go down to 24F)