Butyagrus seeds

[Nigel]

I am curious to know other peoples experiences.

I am finding that Butyagrus seeds germinate much quicker than Butia seeds.

Also,the Butyagrus seeds that germinate after 1 year tend to be pure Butias, the first ones are all butyagrus.

Or is it just me .........

[iamjv]

Nigel, I agree. I've never gotten a butia seed to germinate but have had luck with the butyagrus seeds! Jv

[merrill]

Hi, Nigel and iamjv:

You've probably opened my eyes! I've never timed Butia germination - just put them in excess space and forget them. OTOH XButyagrus, altho it seems very slow, it's the old watched pot syndrome. Of course, one can speed up the hybrid by cracking the seed and using a fungicide.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited August 14, 2010 by merrill

[PalmatierMeg]

Nigel, I'm with Jv. I've never had a Butia seed of any species germinate for me but 2 Butiagrus germinated last winter in 4 weeks & 6 weeks respectively. They are now in 1g pots and have 5 strap leaves. And a 3rd slacker seed is showing a button. Very easy germinators for me.

[Mark Heath]

I am curious to know other peoples experiences.

I am finding that Butyagrus seeds germinate much quicker than Butia seeds.

Also,the Butyagrus seeds that germinate after 1 year tend to be pure Butias, the first ones are all butyagrus.

Or is it just me .........

Hello Nigel,

It depends on when i sow the XButyagrus seeds, if late in the year, then i get a few and next summer they germinate.

But if i sow them in june,, then usually most pop that year and the few pure Butias germinate next year.

I second what Merrill said, i put sown Butia seeds in the back of the greenhouse and forget about them, otherwise i would go crazy waiting for them!

One observation that i have chatted w/ Merrill about is that the weak/slow growing XButyagrus' tend to be the ones who germinate late too.

One observation in regards to germinating that can be helpfull to the people who have problems germinating pure butia seeds.

Let the medium dry out and then damp it again. Repeat this step a cpl of times and keep dry throughout the winter.

I found this out by accident while neglecting the seeds and bingo, i now germinate pure butia seeds within a year no problem.

I hope this helps.

Mark

[Nigel]

One observation in regards to germinating that can be helpfull to the people who have problems germinating pure butia seeds.

Let the medium dry out and then damp it again. Repeat this step a cpl of times and keep dry throughout the winter.

I found this out by accident while neglecting the seeds and bingo, i now germinate pure butia seeds within a year no problem.

I hope this helps.

Mark

Thats right mark, Butia mostly seems to only germinate when the humidity is correct, I find a barely moist and airy medium works best. The seed must appear dry yet the medium have some humidity.

[Nigel]

My first experience with this phenomana was some seeds sent to me by Elaine Lewis.

In the first year I had all Butyagrus come up. The second year a few more germinated but they were mostly Butia.

I also took a lot of seed from an eriosptha growing in the town here next to many queens. The first 2 seeds to germinate were Butyagrus, but after that all eriopstha.

Now I am germinating seed I produced here from a catarinensis , most difficult seed in the world to germinate, absolute pigs, but they germinate really easily.

[PalmGuyWC]

Back in the dark ages, I knew a grower in central Fla. He had Butias and Queens growing together and depended on natural hybrids. He said the hybrid seeds germinated fairly fast and the pure Butias much later. He would pick out the Mules and throw the rest of the seeds away.

Dick

[PalmatierMeg]

I am curious to know other peoples experiences.

I am finding that Butyagrus seeds germinate much quicker than Butia seeds.

Also,the Butyagrus seeds that germinate after 1 year tend to be pure Butias, the first ones are all butyagrus.

Or is it just me .........

Hello Nigel,

It depends on when i sow the XButyagrus seeds, if late in the year, then i get a few and next summer they germinate.

But if i sow them in june,, then usually most pop that year and the few pure Butias germinate next year.

I second what Merrill said, i put sown Butia seeds in the back of the greenhouse and forget about them, otherwise i would go crazy waiting for them!

One observation that i have chatted w/ Merrill about is that the weak/slow growing XButyagrus' tend to be the ones who germinate late too.

One observation in regards to germinating that can be helpfull to the people who have problems germinating pure butia seeds.

Let the medium dry out and then damp it again. Repeat this step a cpl of times and keep dry throughout the winter.

I found this out by accident while neglecting the seeds and bingo, i now germinate pure butia seeds within a year no problem.

I hope this helps.

Mark

Hey Mark, yesterday I moved my two Butiagrus seedlings to 2g pots as they already outgrew the 1g even though they haven't gone pinnate. I was wondering: what is the soonest I can plant them? I've prepared and mulched most of the west side of the back yard. It is exposed to sun most of the day but esp. afternoon. During winter the NW winds blast across vacant lots and really let that part of the yard have it. I'm thinking mule palms will better stand up to harsh conditions and grow into windbreaks that also provide shade - eventually. But if I can get a jump on things....

Thanks for any input

[Mark Heath]

Hi Meg,

Mules are as tough as nails. I would plant them now so you get a jump like you said. Once their root system develops they'll pick up tremendous speed. Full sun and wind cannot harm these guys for sure!

Next year you'll see them pick up their pace and they will go pinnate by that time.

If we ever get another "89" freeze event you will be happy you planted those Mules. Last winter was harsh enough, and i have many Mules here and they just giggled at the cold!

Mark

[TimHopper]

I agree that Butia seeds pollinated with syagrus pollen germinate much faster and more uniform than self- pollinated Butia seeds. I have seen the same result with other hybrid projects using Syagrus pollen.

Edited August 16, 2010 by TimHopper

[PalmatierMeg]

I'm just full of questions. I know that mule palms are supposed to be sterile. Does that mean that they don't flower at all and never produce seeds? Or do they flower then produce nonviable seeds? Or both. My husband is leery of planting mule palms because he doesn't want the queen side's messy habits. I'd love to assure him that mules aren't like that. I think they would be great breaks for cold nw winter winds.

[merrill]

Hi, Meg:

The vast majority of XButyagrus are sterile. Mine usually have a very heavy set of fruit having large fruit with endocarp only. XButyagrus VERY rarely sets fertile seed. In my experience, these seed are usually self-pollinated rather than cross-pollinated, which is quite odd.

Best Wishes

merrill

[TimHopper]

Hi, Nigel and iamjv:

You've probably opened my eyes! I've never timed Butia germination - just put them in excess space and forget them. OTOH XButyagrus, altho it seems very slow, it's the old watched pot syndrome. Of course, one can speed up the hybrid by cracking the seed and using a fungicide.

Best Wishes,

merrill

That is very true. I have germinated xButyagrus seeds in as little as two weeks by completely removing the endocarp or shell, and just planting the fleshy part. You do have to use fungicide and correct moisture to keep them from rotting. Also it can be difficult to get them out of the shell. If you let the complete cleaned seed dry for 2-3 weeks it is easier. They can be carefully cracked in a bench vice from both directions if necessary, then remove the shell. Tim

[merrill]

Hi, Tim:

In my experience, it is sufficient to crack the seed enough so that water can reach the eye, not completely shell it. And again, treat it w/ fungicide.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[TheChemist]

It's difficult to get XButyagrus seeds here in Germany, but I've got a few last year. They were delivered without endocarp (cracked seeds) and germinated within 7 to 10 weeks. Butia capitata (without cracking the seed) germinated within 4 to 35 weeks, most seeds between 14 and 24 weeks.

PS: Do you know a good seller for XButiagrus-seeds or other F1-hybrid-seeds (i.e. Butia x Parajubaea, Jubaea x Parajubaea, ...)? I would like to try a few more ...

[ErikSJI]

It's difficult to get XButyagrus seeds here in Germany, but I've got a few last year. They were delivered without endocarp (cracked seeds) and germinated within 7 to 10 weeks. Butia capitata (without cracking the seed) germinated within 4 to 35 weeks, most seeds between 14 and 24 weeks.

PS: Do you know a good seller for XButiagrus-seeds or other F1-hybrid-seeds (i.e. Butia x Parajubaea, Jubaea x Parajubaea, ...)? I would like to try a few more ...

I have Xbutyagrus-seeds. Message me if you need them.

As far as germination on xbuyagrus seed versus's Butia.

We do around 25000 xbutyagrus seeds a year and we get around 10000 that germinate. None of them come up as Butia's even 3 years out of planting. Timing is really a factor.

March through August is when we get the highest output. Using heated beds around 85F. After a year if they do not sprout we throw them in a unheated bed and they sprout up to 3 years out.

Butia's seem to take 30 days longer to sprout compared to the xbutyagrus.