Mealy Bugs, Spider Mites

[Patrick]

Hi everyone,

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that know this one. I just had a friend turn me on to this trick and it works GREAT for controlling Mealy Bugs, and Spider Mites; probably aphids too:

take a cigarette and dump the tobacco from it into a spray bottle with water, let it sit overnight and then spray the problem areas the next morning. I tried this on some various plants around the yard and it works great! Those Mealy Bugs have withered away to nothing. AND, I'm not using nasty chemicals like Malathion. I was told that since the little buggers are soft bodied, they absorb the Nicotine and that's what does 'em in.

So, If you have some spot problems on some of your palms I recommend trying this out. You ought to be pleased with the results.

I guess the big tobacco companies finally have me "hooked" as well!

Hmm, I wonder if the legal holdups exist for this sort of treatment in nurseries like there are if you want to use "real" pesticides. I know of a couple nurseries that don't use ANY pesticides only because it's so difficult and strict to use them. Their nurseries sure could use some help in the pest department....

Sorry to those folks out there that already know this, I just thought I'd share. Works like a charm for me.....

Have a good day!

Patrick

[JASON M]

I'm not sure my mom would let me buy some cigarettes

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Awesome idea!!! I'm going to buy one of those cheapy tins of TOP from the local drugstore... There's a pygmy date in my yard covered in scale... I bet it works on them too!

[XYZ]

Patrick:

Sorry to rain on your piñata but nicotine is, in fact, a very toxic alkaloid for large vertebrates at high enough concentrations (est. LD50 for adult human somewhere around 50 mg). Conversely, you will probably be surprised to read that malathion is not particularly toxic to large mammals although it is very hard on fish, aquatic amphibians and so forth. Nicotine is particularly nasty for all reptiles and amphibians, so you are not doing the environment any favors by using this substance. If you are genuinely interested in limiting harmful impact would recommend that you look to some other more benign solutions (summer oils, soaps, biorationals, etc.) to your pest problem. Alternately, neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid are more effective as systemics and, IMO, easier on the surroundings when used as a drench (honeybees notably excluded). This ag-chemical class is not effective against spider mites but are superb at suppressing sucking insect populations.

BTW - I am not sure how susceptible the particular plants in your garden/collection are to Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), but I'm afraid that you are about to find out. As a rule, I do not let smokers even touch any plants under my care to minimize this risk. A low risk for some plant families, I admit, but an unacceptable one for me nonetheless.

Ciao,

Jay

Edited August 10, 2010 by stone jaguar

[LJG]

You suck Jay. I just got back from Costo with 50 cartoons of smokes.

[MattyB]

hahaha,

I've had more luck with soap and water this year than any miticide or insecticide. Especially since the mealy bugs have a waxy coating, the soap and water just melts them. I can spray as much as I want in the greenhouse with the fans blowing and I don't have to worry about melting my bone marrow.

[Patrick]

Thanks for the info., Jay. Duly noted. I will move along, then. Maybe I'll give MattyB's technique a try....

[Rafael]

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:24 PM, MattyB said:

hahaha,

I've had more luck with soap and water this year than any miticide or insecticide. Especially since the mealy bugs have a waxy coating, the soap and water just melts them. I can spray as much as I want in the greenhouse with the fans blowing and I don't have to worry about melting my bone marrow.

Matty, how do you apply it, do you just wash the affected areas, or do you spray all over?

[MattyB]

Rafael,

If I see any pests on a palm or have a certain palm that is repeatedly susseptible to pests, I thoroughly spray that palm down, all the leaves upper and lower surfaces. It does not harm the palm or leave any residue from what I have seen. What I do is take the liquid laundry detergent bottle, once I finish all the detergent out of it, don't rinse it out, and then add 2 more squirts of dish soap to it and fill it back up with water. I then use this to fill my spray bottle.

[John Case]

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:27 PM, stone jaguar said:

Patrick:

Sorry to rain on your piñata but nicotine is, in fact, a very toxic alkaloid for large vertebrates at high enough concentrations (est. LD50 for adult human somewhere around 50 mg). Conversely, you will probably be surprised to read that malathion is not particularly toxic to large mammals although it is very hard on fish, aquatic amphibians and so forth. Nicotine is particularly nasty for all reptiles and amphibians, so you are not doing the environment any favors by using this substance. If you are genuinely interested in limiting harmful impact would recommend that you look to some other more benign solutions (summer oils, soaps, biorationals, etc.) to your pest problem. Alternately, neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid are more effective as systemics and, IMO, easier on the surroundings when used as a drench (honeybees notably excluded). This ag-chemical class is not effective against spider mites but are superb at suppressing sucking insect populations.

BTW - I am not sure how susceptible the particular plants in your garden/collection are to Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), but I'm afraid that you are about to find out. As a rule, I do not let smokers even touch any plants under my care to minimize this risk. A low risk for some plant families, I admit, but an unacceptable one for me nonetheless.

Ciao,

Jay

I am not so sure I would be quite so alarmist about nicotine. The LD50 of 50 mg is about what you would find in 5 cigarettes or maybe a half of a cigar and applies only if the entire amount is ingested at one time. Patrick was going to use 1 cigarette (extract); as it is unlikely that all of the extract would land on him, it is true that many of the intended victims and unintended as well are killed. Given that the plants are infested with harmful beasties and are not being controlled by beneficial insects, it is likely that no real damage to anything beneficial would occur.

As to TMV, unless he has tomatoes, cucumbers or the like (it is true that there are some ornamental flowers also susceptible), that if the tobacco, which has probably been inspected, and certainly cured, would not transmit TMV into his garden. With TMV in the environment for such a long time now, if it was easily transmitted into gardens, it would have been so for some time.

I hope that anyone considering using nicotine as a pest killer knows about these things and evaluates them as to their appropriateness in the garden.

While I am not a smoker, I do not fear its presence. There are many successful, smoking, gardners that I know.

[Rafael]

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:21 PM, MattyB said:

Rafael,

If I see any pests on a palm or have a certain palm that is repeatedly susseptible to pests, I thoroughly spray that palm down, all the leaves upper and lower surfaces. It does not harm the palm or leave any residue from what I have seen. What I do is take the liquid laundry detergent bottle, once I finish all the detergent out of it, don't rinse it out, and then add 2 more squirts of dish soap to it and fill it back up with water. I then use this to fill my spray bottle.

One of my cer. alpinum is showing those waxy guys, and doesnt look good at all, stopped its growth, and the leaves are gradually browning, but the new spear.

Thanks for your tips, i will try it!

[Alex-v]

Hi Patrick

almost anything is preferable to the chemical synthesis

regards

[sonoranfans]

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:27 PM, stone jaguar said:

Patrick:

Sorry to rain on your piñata but nicotine is, in fact, a very toxic alkaloid for large vertebrates at high enough concentrations (est. LD50 for adult human somewhere around 50 mg). Conversely, you will probably be surprised to read that malathion is not particularly toxic to large mammals although it is very hard on fish, aquatic amphibians and so forth. Nicotine is particularly nasty for all reptiles and amphibians, so you are not doing the environment any favors by using this substance. If you are genuinely interested in limiting harmful impact would recommend that you look to some other more benign solutions (summer oils, soaps, biorationals, etc.) to your pest problem. Alternately, neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid are more effective as systemics and, IMO, easier on the surroundings when used as a drench (honeybees notably excluded). This ag-chemical class is not effective against spider mites but are superb at suppressing sucking insect populations.

BTW - I am not sure how susceptible the particular plants in your garden/collection are to Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), but I'm afraid that you are about to find out. As a rule, I do not let smokers even touch any plants under my care to minimize this risk. A low risk for some plant families, I admit, but an unacceptable one for me nonetheless.

Ciao,

Jay

You stated it all pretty well Jay. I used to calibrate sensors for toxic substances so I have read many MSDS sheets. The sheet for nicotine was by far the most scary I've seen for anything ever used in a consumable, and more toxic than probably 99% of labratory chemicals. If you touch it it readily absorbs through the skin so its also very difficult to handle with getting a dose. Concentrated nicotine would be a real issue. In cigarettes its I expect its low in terms of human toxicity, but no telling what it would do to tiny beneficial microbes or plants. I had no knowledge of its effect on plants, or of the TMV, but this is one solution to bug control I won't attempt. Neem Oil or insecticidal soap will have to do for me. Perhaps I could use it as a last resort when other methods dont work and the life of the palm is threatened.

Edited August 13, 2010 by sonoranfans

[XYZ]

John:

My point is not that the dilute nicotine infusion that Patrick was exposed to was going to be life-threatening to him in limited quantities, merely that it is by no means an inoffensive/innocuous substance for the environment in general and his garden in particular. More specifically, I also wanted to emphasize the danger nicotine's use poses for small ("beneficial") urban and suburban vertebrates.

For general reference, TMV is documented from a number of ornamental plant families other than the Solanaceae (e.g. Orchidaceae, Apocynaceae, Araceae, Polypodiaceae, etc.) and is present in some garden environments in spades. I smoke cigars in the evenings a couple times week, so I suppose that I might be considered what you deem a "successful" smoking gardener. However, I absolutely do not handle my plants while smoking or for <12 hours after smoking and, as I mentioned in my post, do not allow cigarette smokers to handle my plants at all. I have seen plenty of evidence that plant-collecting inveterate smokers seem to have inordinate numbers of viroid-looking plants in their care, and some U.S. nurseryman are quite cautious when purchasing certain types of plants from Taiwan and SE Asia (feel free to draw your own conclusion here) precisely due to this phenomenon.

I would state categorically that when one line-breeds critically-threatened plants for the purpose of establishing mother blocks of these species in cultivation for commercial and/or conservation purposes, one needs to reduce exogenous hazards to your wards to a minimum...to my mind, gratuitously exposing endangered plants to TMV (or other related MVs) when one is aware of the transmission risk doesn't seem like a particularly wise course of action. As far as I am concerned, amateur gardeners are free to implement whatever hippie/New Age solutions to their "bug" problems they feel fit...just be sure that "environmentally benign" is really "harmless to the environment", laddies.

Like I said, imidacloprid (horror!!) or malathion + Enstar II seem like a far better low-impact solution to Patrick's sucking insect problem.

J

  On 8/12/2010 at 10:45 PM, bepah said:

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:27 PM, stone jaguar said:

Patrick:

Sorry to rain on your piñata but nicotine is, in fact, a very toxic alkaloid for large vertebrates at high enough concentrations (est. LD50 for adult human somewhere around 50 mg). Conversely, you will probably be surprised to read that malathion is not particularly toxic to large mammals although it is very hard on fish, aquatic amphibians and so forth. Nicotine is particularly nasty for all reptiles and amphibians, so you are not doing the environment any favors by using this substance. If you are genuinely interested in limiting harmful impact would recommend that you look to some other more benign solutions (summer oils, soaps, biorationals, etc.) to your pest problem. Alternately, neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid are more effective as systemics and, IMO, easier on the surroundings when used as a drench (honeybees notably excluded). This ag-chemical class is not effective against spider mites but are superb at suppressing sucking insect populations.

BTW - I am not sure how susceptible the particular plants in your garden/collection are to Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), but I'm afraid that you are about to find out. As a rule, I do not let smokers even touch any plants under my care to minimize this risk. A low risk for some plant families, I admit, but an unacceptable one for me nonetheless.

Ciao,

Jay

I am not so sure I would be quite so alarmist about nicotine. The LD50 of 50 mg is about what you would find in 5 cigarettes or maybe a half of a cigar and applies only if the entire amount is ingested at one time. Patrick was going to use 1 cigarette (extract); as it is unlikely that all of the extract would land on him, it is true that many of the intended victims and unintended as well are killed. Given that the plants are infested with harmful beasties and are not being controlled by beneficial insects, it is likely that no real damage to anything beneficial would occur.

As to TMV, unless he has tomatoes, cucumbers or the like (it is true that there are some ornamental flowers also susceptible), that if the tobacco, which has probably been inspected, and certainly cured, would not transmit TMV into his garden. With TMV in the environment for such a long time now, if it was easily transmitted into gardens, it would have been so for some time.

I hope that anyone considering using nicotine as a pest killer knows about these things and evaluates them as to their appropriateness in the garden.

While I am not a smoker, I do not fear its presence. There are many successful, smoking, gardners that I know.

[palmcurry]

Had not heard this method before and will give it a try. Smokes are good for getting rid of humans so they must be GREAT for clearing out the spider mites.

[Gonzer]

  Quote

Smokes are good for getting rid of humans

That's why my yard is bug-free...I just breathe on 'em!

[sonoranfans]

I thought just for giggles I'd look this one up. Malathion LD50 1500mg/kg, vs nicotine LD50 50 mg/kg. This makes nicotine 30 times more toxic to humans than malathion, LOL! Its also interesting that the most common cause of nicotine poisioning around the world is contracting it from use as a pesticide. There is a reason its not used here anymore I suppose. Im gonna buy a gallon of malathion, and kill the bugs with that "relatively harmless pesticide".

[John Case]

  On 8/13/2010 at 7:35 PM, stone jaguar said:

John:

My point is not that the dilute nicotine infusion that Patrick was exposed to was going to be life-threatening to him in limited quantities, merely that it is by no means an inoffensive/innocuous substance for the environment in general and his garden in particular. More specifically, I also wanted to emphasize the danger nicotine's use poses for small ("beneficial") urban and suburban vertebrates.

For general reference, TMV is documented from a number of ornamental plant families other than the Solanaceae (e.g. Orchidaceae, Apocynaceae, Araceae, Polypodiaceae, etc.) and is present in some garden environments in spades. I smoke cigars in the evenings a couple times week, so I suppose that I might be considered what you deem a "successful" smoking gardener. However, I absolutely do not handle my plants while smoking or for <12 hours after smoking and, as I mentioned in my post, do not allow cigarette smokers to handle my plants at all. I have seen plenty of evidence that plant-collecting inveterate smokers seem to have inordinate numbers of viroid-looking plants in their care, and some U.S. nurseryman are quite cautious when purchasing certain types of plants from Taiwan and SE Asia (feel free to draw your own conclusion here) precisely due to this phenomenon.

I would state categorically that when one line-breeds critically-threatened plants for the purpose of establishing mother blocks of these species in cultivation for commercial and/or conservation purposes, one needs to reduce exogenous hazards to your wards to a minimum...to my mind, gratuitously exposing endangered plants to TMV (or other related MVs) when one is aware of the transmission risk doesn't seem like a particularly wise course of action. As far as I am concerned, amateur gardeners are free to implement whatever hippie/New Age solutions to their "bug" problems they feel fit...just be sure that "environmentally benign" is really "harmless to the environment", laddies.

Like I said, imidacloprid (horror!!) or malathion + Enstar II seem like a far better low-impact solution to Patrick's sucking insect problem.

J

  On 8/12/2010 at 10:45 PM, bepah said:

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:27 PM, stone jaguar said:

Patrick:

Sorry to rain on your piñata but nicotine is, in fact, a very toxic alkaloid for large vertebrates at high enough concentrations (est. LD50 for adult human somewhere around 50 mg). Conversely, you will probably be surprised to read that malathion is not particularly toxic to large mammals although it is very hard on fish, aquatic amphibians and so forth. Nicotine is particularly nasty for all reptiles and amphibians, so you are not doing the environment any favors by using this substance. If you are genuinely interested in limiting harmful impact would recommend that you look to some other more benign solutions (summer oils, soaps, biorationals, etc.) to your pest problem. Alternately, neonicotinoids such as imidacloprid are more effective as systemics and, IMO, easier on the surroundings when used as a drench (honeybees notably excluded). This ag-chemical class is not effective against spider mites but are superb at suppressing sucking insect populations.

BTW - I am not sure how susceptible the particular plants in your garden/collection are to Tobacco Mosaic Virus (TMV), but I'm afraid that you are about to find out. As a rule, I do not let smokers even touch any plants under my care to minimize this risk. A low risk for some plant families, I admit, but an unacceptable one for me nonetheless.

Ciao,

Jay

I am not so sure I would be quite so alarmist about nicotine. The LD50 of 50 mg is about what you would find in 5 cigarettes or maybe a half of a cigar and applies only if the entire amount is ingested at one time. Patrick was going to use 1 cigarette (extract); as it is unlikely that all of the extract would land on him, it is true that many of the intended victims and unintended as well are killed. Given that the plants are infested with harmful beasties and are not being controlled by beneficial insects, it is likely that no real damage to anything beneficial would occur.

As to TMV, unless he has tomatoes, cucumbers or the like (it is true that there are some ornamental flowers also susceptible), that if the tobacco, which has probably been inspected, and certainly cured, would not transmit TMV into his garden. With TMV in the environment for such a long time now, if it was easily transmitted into gardens, it would have been so for some time.

I hope that anyone considering using nicotine as a pest killer knows about these things and evaluates them as to their appropriateness in the garden.

While I am not a smoker, I do not fear its presence. There are many successful, smoking, gardners that I know.

I was just trying to add to the general knowledge, of course. The organic gardeners around here would have an infarction if anyone who even said the word malation in their presence. I use malathion all of the time to douse ant colonies......

Also TMV can be created in the laboratory, it is a chemical mutant rather than a virus it is so simple.......and so potent.

Of course, Patrick, you could take the baboon solution and they would pick them one by one and eat them....but baboon rentals are quite expensive!

[Mark Heath]

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:21 PM, LJG said:

You suck Jay. I just got back from Costo with 50 cartoons of smokes.

Good one Len!!!!

Patrick, thanks for the tip, i have never heard of this! I hate using chemicals! Seeing i smoke i don't think this will hurt me one bit! I will use this method that you have taught me, thanks!!

Mark

[John in Andalucia]

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:21 PM, MattyB said:

Rafael,

If I see any pests on a palm or have a certain palm that is repeatedly susseptible to pests, I thoroughly spray that palm down, all the leaves upper and lower surfaces. It does not harm the palm or leave any residue from what I have seen. What I do is take the liquid laundry detergent bottle, once I finish all the detergent out of it, don't rinse it out, and then add 2 more squirts of dish soap to it and fill it back up with water. I then use this to fill my spray bottle.

Matty,

Detergent is a very different beast to soap. For bigger palms I'll trust your knowledge on this, but I'm not sure if it's advisable for seedlings. Most articles about home-made insect repellents, admittedly in reference to house plants, extend the caution to using natural soap only - no additives, perfumes etc. That's not such an easy product to find these days. I wouldn't advocate using detergent-based products on potted seedlings, just for the record. Even if it means only one or two species would suffer any ill-effects.

[kahili]

You know, they sell insecticidal soap just for this purpose of spraying plants, and its pretty cheap to buy. I also get great results from using horticultural oil or Neem. Just be sure that you don't spray any of the above in the heat of the day or when the sun is shining on the plants being sprayed. I like to spray in the late afternoon when the sun is going down myself.

[Rafael]

I am facing some waxy convered bugs, that have just attacked my ceroxylon quindiuense and alpinum, and are trying to do the same into my ravenea glauca and one of my dypsis onilahensis. I am fighting against them the possible way, but now i am facing another problem: thousands of ants going after those bugs! Any help about how to kill these ants??? Please!

[Mark Heath]

  On 8/31/2010 at 2:14 AM, rafael said:

I am facing some waxy convered bugs, that have just attacked my ceroxylon quindiuense and alpinum, and are trying to do the same into my ravenea glauca and one of my dypsis onilahensis. I am fighting against them the possible way, but now i am facing another problem: thousands of ants going after those bugs! Any help about how to kill these ants??? Please!

Rafael,

You have scale, and ants eat the sugary secretions from them, so they work together. You need a pestcidal oil to kill the scale, then the ants will leave or die from the pesticide. I am not sure what brand of pesticidal oil your country carries. Good luck,

Mark

[Dypsisdean]

A worthwhile lesson learned from this discussion is that it is a fallacy to assume that because something is "natural" it is a better, or less benign, substance than a man made chemical. After all, they are both still chemicals, and some of the most potent and dangerous substances known to man are "naturally" occurring - such as botulinum and ricin. There are useful and appropriate chemicals for many purposes in life. Some are man made and some are not. But man made does not necessarily mean dangerous, anymore than "natural" means safe. Isn't soap a man made chemical?

[Rafael]

  On 8/31/2010 at 10:51 PM, Mark Heath said:

  On 8/31/2010 at 2:14 AM, rafael said:

I am facing some waxy convered bugs, that have just attacked my ceroxylon quindiuense and alpinum, and are trying to do the same into my ravenea glauca and one of my dypsis onilahensis. I am fighting against them the possible way, but now i am facing another problem: thousands of ants going after those bugs! Any help about how to kill these ants??? Please!

Rafael,

You have scale, and ants eat the sugary secretions from them, so they work together. You need a pestcidal oil to kill the scale, then the ants will leave or die from the pesticide. I am not sure what brand of pesticidal oil your country carries. Good luck,

Mark

Thanks Mark, i will look after it, and later will let you know!

[mnorell]

Another reportedly effective cure against scale and other similar beasties is to make a "tea" out of coffee grounds and spray it on the affected areas, and then mulch with the grounds around the base of the plant. Tom Broome reported this rather miraculous cure for Asian Cycad Scale a year or two ago, and it apparently works like a charm. I assume it's equally eficacious on other plants, but there's no harm in trying. Starbucks usually gives away bags of its used grounds for gardeners at no charge. No doubt safer than tobacco or malathion!

[Rafael]

  On 8/12/2010 at 8:21 PM, MattyB said:

Rafael,

If I see any pests on a palm or have a certain palm that is repeatedly susseptible to pests, I thoroughly spray that palm down, all the leaves upper and lower surfaces. It does not harm the palm or leave any residue from what I have seen. What I do is take the liquid laundry detergent bottle, once I finish all the detergent out of it, don't rinse it out, and then add 2 more squirts of dish soap to it and fill it back up with water. I then use this to fill my spray bottle.

Matt, does your suggestion works against scales and ants (together)?

[Kumar]

I've never had a serious scale or mealybug infestation yet; my fear are termites - they appear on palms. dicots such as mango, curry tree and jamun, and even neem (so much for its insecticide properties). On palms they systematically dismantle bases / sheaths of entire dead leaves on young speciens that have no trunk and expose the green inner 'cylinders'. On my royals, so far i have not seen any damage beyond cosmetics.

The other problem are small red ants which migrate all over my garden every week and form small mounds at the base of the different trees, comfortably rotating venues. But I am yet to see any adverse effect on plants.

Any suggestions on controlling these without spraying a cocktail of synthetic DDT / Kerosene based pesticide ?

[Rafael]

These hugly guys dont quit hiting my potted palms, despite all i have been doing against them (Matty's and Charles' suggestions).

What could be the consequences of these guys' permanent activity?

[yachtingone]

  On 8/10/2010 at 7:14 PM, JASON M said:

I'm not sure my mom would let me buy some cigarettes

Buy a cigar instead!

[yachtingone]

  On 8/15/2010 at 10:25 AM, Mark Heath said:

  On 8/10/2010 at 8:21 PM, LJG said:

You suck Jay. I just got back from Costo with 50 cartoons of smokes.

Good one Len!!!!

Patrick, thanks for the tip, i have never heard of this! I hate using chemicals! Seeing i smoke i don't think this will hurt me one bit! I will use this method that you have taught me, thanks!!

Mark

I wouldn't be suprised if you soaked pure tabbaco with no chemical additives the tea would be harmless to every thing:huh: . In making a cigarette out of tobacco there are many chemical ingrediants. Nicotene was added to aid the addiction process! There are preservatives added. They also add a chemical to make it burn just right with out going out. Natural cigarettes will put themselves out if left alone. Len I have never seen a cartoon of cigarettes post a pic:floor: .

Click on pic for detail!

I don't want any of this near me or my plants!

Randy