Vista vs Lemon Grove Ca which has the best palm weather on the west coast ?

[trioderob]

Lemon Grove is called " "the Best Climate on Earth"

Vista is called "a Climatic Wonderland"

both are about 8 miles inland

both are famous for their perfect weather

both are in the primo Sunset zone 23

WHICH TOWN HAS THE BEST PALM WEATHER IN THE WEST ????

Edited July 26, 2010 by trioderob

[Dypsisdean]

Another impossible question.

There are spots in Vista, not too far from Darian's optimum location, where I saw everything fried during freezes. These low laying river beds were as brutal as anywhere, and I'm sure Lemon Grove has them too.

And I'm sure every hilltop and slope in both locations has their own microclimatic effects. Darian has said that his place has heated up as more houses, businesses, a streets have been built around him.

[MattyB]

I live in Spring Valley where it's always wet everywhere and the entire area is in a valley.

so I'm gonna say that Lemon Grove has the best palm weather on the west coast since a giant lemon says it's true and some palm fruit is yellow.

[trioderob]

thats not too bad Matt

have you seen the fire path that went thru Garys place ?

now thats what I call a fire !

but on a side note these really are the 2 areas that are famous for having the best weather

and are the classic growing areas going back more than 50 years.

what other area in southern cal would be better than these ?

Edited July 26, 2010 by trioderob

[happ]

Both areas have similar climates if not nearly identical.

Lemon Grove averages between 68F-70F during winter while Vista's average is 68F. Those critical night temps are between 45F-47F in Lemon Grove & 45F-46F in Vista. Summers in Lemon Grove average between 79F-86F while Vista is 78F-84F. Summer nights in Lemon Grove are between 59F-64F with Vista at 57F-62F. Of-course due to the many micro climates these averages can vary somewhat. But based on the data it appears that Lemon Grove is overall warmer than Vista and therefore more palm-friendly

Lemon Grove: http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/monthly/USCA0604

Vista: http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/monthly/USCA1205

[MattyB]

I enjoy pondering the many micro-climates in SoCal. There are many areas that, although I'm a native, I'm still unfamiliar with. Areas like Ocean View Hills, Otay Ranch, East Ridge, are newly developed areas that people are seeing some really nice warm inland temps but still with some ocean influence to mitigate low humidities. But it also depends on what palms we're talking about. The coastal strip lacks heat but provides the cool and humid climate that New Caledonia stuff thrives in. The hot inland valleys will grow a Bizzy 5 times better looking than Pacific Beach. Gary Levine has some of the fastest growth of palms around but he is smart and picks his species wisely, mostly choosing the ones that thrive for him and avoiding the ones that are picky in his climate. So, saying "Palms" and "insert your city name here" is so vague that you really can't make any determinations other than broad ones.

What about the soil? Paul is in a particularly cold spot in the Winter, but his silty soil is deep, rich, and drains beautifully. Add a canopy tree for cold protection and that soil makes his place better to grow a lot of palms than yard like Bob's up the hill who has a warmer climate but terrible soil.

Speaking of Happ; those south facing foothills of the Santa Monica and San Gabriel ranges have some of the most historically mild low temps in all of California.

Topanga is a climactic wonderland as well, but some exposures are buffeted by extremely high winds and although the temperatures are idea, winds make it impossible to grow anything but wind swept Manzanita and sage brush.

[Dypsisdean]

Both areas have similar climates if not nearly identical.

Lemon Grove averages between 68F-70F during winter while Vista's average is 68F. Those critical night temps are between 45F-47F in Lemon Grove & 45F-46F in Vista. Summers in Lemon Grove average between 79F-86F while Vista is 78F-84F. Summer nights in Lemon Grove are between 59F-64F with Vista at 57F-62F. Of-course due to the many micro climates these averages can vary somewhat. But based on the data it appears that Lemon Grove is overall warmer than Vista and therefore more palm-friendly

Lemon Grove: http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/monthly/USCA0604

Vista: http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/monthly/USCA1205

Happ,

For those stats to mean anything, wouldn't you want to assure that they are both taken in as similar locations as possible? Same elevation, same type slope, facing the same direction. Or the same type of hilltop, or flat land. Comparing the climate of a west facing slope near the bottom of a hill in Vista, to a south facing mid-slope in Lemon Grove wouldn't mean very much IMO. In other words, it sounds as if one could easily collect stats from slightly different locations in either city that would yield whatever you wished them to show. And I wouldn't be surprised if the stats from both locations, trying to advertise their "perfect" climates, may be subject to a little hanky panky anyway. (Lies, Damed Lies, and Statistics)

[Justin]

From somebody who's lived all over SoCal during the last 16 years (from Pomona to Hollywood to Costa Mesa to Vista, and seen everywhere in between), take this highly informal and unscientific advice on where I think "palms" (subject to many of the apropos comments above) would grow best, from north to south:

• South-facing hills above Santa Barbara (away from any cold sinks)
  
• Westwood-Beverly Hills (roughly between Wilshire and Mulholland)
  
• South-facing hills around Pasadena, especially in more concrete-laden areas
  
• Anaheim Hills
  
• Areas along the top of the 73 freeway (e.g. Pelican Crest)
  
• The west and south-facing hills in Camp Pendleton just east of the 5
  
• Any hill in Vista that has unimpeded ocean breezes (e.g. Darian's place)
  
• Rancho Cielo (the tall hills right above Rancho Soledad nursery)
  
• Balboa Park area
  
• Lemon Grove and other hilly areas with unimpeded ocean breezes south of downtown
  

This of course assumes everything else (especially soil) being equal. But I think those areas would have the warmest winters, the lowest chance of freezing, the greatest amount of humidity, the greatest amount of air movement, and the least likelihood of blazing Santa Ana winds - relative to the other areas around them.

[Mark_NoVA]

...

• South-facing hills above Santa Barbara (away from any cold sinks)
  

...

I haven't noticed anything here about great micro-climates on the hills of Santa Barbara--anybody know specifically where some great microclimates there are?

[Tyrone]

This is an interesting climate discussion. I live of course on the west coast of a big continent at around the same latitude, and I always look to the So Cal experiences to learn a bit.

I don't understand this sunset zone thing. What is that all about? I've only seen this talked about in the US.

We also have a suburb called Orange Grove over here, so citrus is a common theme in our areas, although the citrus growers have long since gone.

I did a bit of climate comparison using those weather.com maps and it was kind of interesting. The closest site to me is labeled "Mt Lawley Perth metro", yet for some reason the website has chosen the airport figures and truncated the decimal off. I imagine it would have truncated all the figures so that side of things is totally comparable. Those figures are not typical suburban area temps though. The real Mt Lawley minimum temps are about 1-1.5C higher all over, and that would quite accurately describe my place. I would live only a few miles from the site, and it's all basically flat ground, not undulating like So Cal.

Here's the link comparing Vista and Perth airport http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA0604?sfld1=Lemon%20Grove,%20CA&sfld2=Mount%20Lawley%20Perth%20Metro,%20AS&clocid1=USCA0604&clocid2=ASXX0230

And another link comparing Perth Airport to Vista Ca http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA1205?sfld1=Vista,%20CA&sfld2=Mt%20Lawley,%20Australia&clocid1=USCA1205&clocid2=

Also the extreme high for Mt Lawley is around 45C, so weather.com is wrong there. They may simply not have extreme info for the Australian site.

By the looks of it, Perth warms up quicker than So Cal, as we don't get that May Jun gloom situation. Nov is when things just take off here. Also our Dec and Mar are basically identical with Mar sometimes being hotter than Dec. I think our biggest difference is the winter rainfall. Perth has over double So Cal rainfall. So Cal winters seem a tad milder and therefore sunnier than Perth I would think.

Basically though So Cal and Perth are a very close match. I bet you'd grow Proteas and Banksias very well over there in a sandy medium.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Sorry those links didn't work.

Tyrone

[happ]

Dean, you make perfect sense in qualifying where the exact location of the weather station is situated; it can mean significant difference. For example there is a California state data center within maybe 2 blocks from me [i link to it at the bottom of my personal info]. Day temps are essentially identical between that station and my own location yet night temps are often 5 or more degree cooler at the state site. I found out why when I went to the site and discovered it is located in a small ravine.

The data presented for Vista and Lemon Grove is especially noteworthy when comparing overall minimum records. Vista recorded 20F in 1998 and 23F during the Dec freeze of 2007. Lemon Grove, on the other hand, has only bottomed out at 26F in 1949; that can make a big difference in the survival of subtropical plants.

Matty, I believe the reason for these favorable Los Angeles micro-climates is the steep terrain and relatively high mountains within the metro area. I've shared this before that I was never really all that interested in palm trees until I realized that my location was frost-free. I chuckle every winter when fellow members of the local chapter of the American Meteorological Society gripe about the minimum temps wondering if we will ever observe frost.

Justin, that's a pretty exhaustive list of the mild winter areas of Southern California. I would add:

South coastal Santa Barbara county around La Conchita beach. There used to be a fairly large banana plantation right across the freeway from the ocean and extensive avocado groves on the hilltops.

Definitely Westwood; when the Getty Museum was constructed the National Weather Service installed a station there. That location has yet to record a minimum below 40F. Actually the Santa Monica mts from Malibu into northeast Los Angeles [including the Hollywood Hills, Los Feliz, Silver Lake, Mt Washington into El Sereno] are "banana belts". A parallel range of higher foothills that merge with the San Gabriel Mts is also basically frost-free [La Crescenta, La Canada, San Rafael Hills, Altadena, Sierra Madre].

The foothills south of El Sereno into Monterey Park and Montebello.

The lower Santa Ana mountains [La Habra Heights, Puente Hills, Yorba Linda, Anaheim Hills and all the hillsides above canyons down to Rancho Santa Margarita].

Newport Beach and parts of the San Joaquin Hills.

All the above regions with the exception of Santa Barbara county also regularly experience diurnal offshore wind during winter. These night winds vary in strength and tend to be funneled westward along the south-facing San Gabriel mountains and out over the Orange county coastal plain. Not only do the winds mix-out the cold air but provide some of the warmest winter night temps in southern California. For example the average Dec to Feb minimums at my location range from 50F to 52F.

[Tyrone]

For what it's worth I scanned those comparison maps.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

The last one Vista precipitation comparison

Best regards

Tyrone

[happ]

This is an interesting climate discussion. I live of course on the west coast of a big continent at around the same latitude, and I always look to the So Cal experiences to learn a bit.

I don't understand this sunset zone thing. What is that all about? I've only seen this talked about in the US.

We also have a suburb called Orange Grove over here, so citrus is a common theme in our areas, although the citrus growers have long since gone.

I did a bit of climate comparison using those weather.com maps and it was kind of interesting. The closest site to me is labeled "Mt Lawley Perth metro", yet for some reason the website has chosen the airport figures and truncated the decimal off. I imagine it would have truncated all the figures so that side of things is totally comparable. Those figures are not typical suburban area temps though. The real Mt Lawley minimum temps are about 1-1.5C higher all over, and that would quite accurately describe my place. I would live only a few miles from the site, and it's all basically flat ground, not undulating like So Cal.

Here's the link comparing Vista and Perth airport http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA0604?sfld1=Lemon%20Grove,%20CA&sfld2=Mount%20Lawley%20Perth%20Metro,%20AS&clocid1=USCA0604&clocid2=ASXX0230

And another link comparing Perth Airport to Vista Ca http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA1205?sfld1=Vista,%20CA&sfld2=Mt%20Lawley,%20Australia&clocid1=USCA1205&clocid2=

Also the extreme high for Mt Lawley is around 45C, so weather.com is wrong there. They may simply not have extreme info for the Australian site.

By the looks of it, Perth warms up quicker than So Cal, as we don't get that May Jun gloom situation. Nov is when things just take off here. Also our Dec and Mar are basically identical with Mar sometimes being hotter than Dec. I think our biggest difference is the winter rainfall. Perth has over double So Cal rainfall. So Cal winters seem a tad milder and therefore sunnier than Perth I would think.

Basically though So Cal and Perth are a very close match. I bet you'd grow Proteas and Banksias very well over there in a sandy medium.

Best regards

Tyrone

Always enjoy talking weather with you, Tyrone and have learned a lot about Western Australia by reading your posts.

The Sunset zones are essentially a garden-oriented classification of what plants are best suited for a particular climate. Originally Sunset books focused on California since it is a California company and mapped out 24 climate zones they conceptualized. The zones are especially helpful for beginning gardeners and incorporate climate and topography. Coupled with the United States National Arboretum Hardiness zones, the Sunset classifications provide statistical averages for frost and a list of plants recommended to the gardener. These links might be helpful:

Sunset: http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/

USDA: http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hrdzon3.html

I'm not surprised that Perth doesn't experience coastal cloudiness like California since the ocean temps are warmer off Western Australia. When the local Pacific waters exceed 70F\ 21C the amount of stratus diminishes but due to a variety of factors [including upwelling, prevailing northwest wind and a cold ocean current] the California coastline is often plagued with low clouds during summer. At 31.60S latitude, Perth is further further away from the south pole than Southern California is from the north pole. San Diego is 32.70N latitude and Los Angeles is 34.07N.

I'm not entirely sure why Perth averages so much more rainfall than Southern California but my hunch is that the ocean temp plays a significant role. I am surprised that the Southern California winter is somewhat warmer than Perth but it may have something to due with regular offshore wind and, once again, a colder ocean that suppresses rainfall. For example, you have coconut palms in Perth; they are quite marginal for California even though our winters are actually warmer than many regions further south in the U.S. [ie. Texas, northern Florida]. But our mild winters are followed by very slow warming during Spring when Texas and Florida are dramatically warmer. Proteas do OK here as well as plumeria and some orchids.

Hope this information is helpful, Tyrone.

happ

[LJG]

I live right under Darian's house. Literally about 1/4 mile below him facing west. I had NO canopy when 2007 freeze hit. My lowest part of the yard hit 28. Most stayed above freezing. As I get more educated on gardening and growing tropicals, I feel more blessed that just by chance did I move to such a great place to grow plants. We almost always have a nice breeze coming from the ocean and we almost never have June gloom. It basically stops 1 mile further west. So we get the sun, but it is not inland hot.

[Tyrone]

This is an interesting climate discussion. I live of course on the west coast of a big continent at around the same latitude, and I always look to the So Cal experiences to learn a bit.

I don't understand this sunset zone thing. What is that all about? I've only seen this talked about in the US.

We also have a suburb called Orange Grove over here, so citrus is a common theme in our areas, although the citrus growers have long since gone.

I did a bit of climate comparison using those weather.com maps and it was kind of interesting. The closest site to me is labeled "Mt Lawley Perth metro", yet for some reason the website has chosen the airport figures and truncated the decimal off. I imagine it would have truncated all the figures so that side of things is totally comparable. Those figures are not typical suburban area temps though. The real Mt Lawley minimum temps are about 1-1.5C higher all over, and that would quite accurately describe my place. I would live only a few miles from the site, and it's all basically flat ground, not undulating like So Cal.

Here's the link comparing Vista and Perth airport http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA0604?sfld1=Lemon%20Grove,%20CA&sfld2=Mount%20Lawley%20Perth%20Metro,%20AS&clocid1=USCA0604&clocid2=ASXX0230

And another link comparing Perth Airport to Vista Ca http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/sports/wxclimatology/compare/USCA1205?sfld1=Vista,%20CA&sfld2=Mt%20Lawley,%20Australia&clocid1=USCA1205&clocid2=

Also the extreme high for Mt Lawley is around 45C, so weather.com is wrong there. They may simply not have extreme info for the Australian site.

By the looks of it, Perth warms up quicker than So Cal, as we don't get that May Jun gloom situation. Nov is when things just take off here. Also our Dec and Mar are basically identical with Mar sometimes being hotter than Dec. I think our biggest difference is the winter rainfall. Perth has over double So Cal rainfall. So Cal winters seem a tad milder and therefore sunnier than Perth I would think.

Basically though So Cal and Perth are a very close match. I bet you'd grow Proteas and Banksias very well over there in a sandy medium.

Best regards

Tyrone

Always enjoy talking weather with you, Tyrone and have learned a lot about Western Australia by reading your posts.

The Sunset zones are essentially a garden-oriented classification of what plants are best suited for a particular climate. Originally Sunset books focused on California since it is a California company and mapped out 24 climate zones they conceptualized. The zones are especially helpful for beginning gardeners and incorporate climate and topography. Coupled with the United States National Arboretum Hardiness zones, the Sunset classifications provide statistical averages for frost and a list of plants recommended to the gardener. These links might be helpful:

Sunset: http://www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/

USDA: http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/hrdzon3.html

I'm not surprised that Perth doesn't experience coastal cloudiness like California since the ocean temps are warmer off Western Australia. When the local Pacific waters exceed 70F\ 21C the amount of stratus diminishes but due to a variety of factors [including upwelling, prevailing northwest wind and a cold ocean current] the California coastline is often plagued with low clouds during summer. At 31.60S latitude, Perth is further further away from the south pole than Southern California is from the north pole. San Diego is 32.70N latitude and Los Angeles is 34.07N.

I'm not entirely sure why Perth averages so much more rainfall than Southern California but my hunch is that the ocean temp plays a significant role. I am surprised that the Southern California winter is somewhat warmer than Perth but it may have something to due with regular offshore wind and, once again, a colder ocean that suppresses rainfall. For example, you have coconut palms in Perth; they are quite marginal for California even though our winters are actually warmer than many regions further south in the U.S. [ie. Texas, northern Florida]. But our mild winters are followed by very slow warming during Spring when Texas and Florida are dramatically warmer. Proteas do OK here as well as plumeria and some orchids.

Hope this information is helpful, Tyrone.

happ

Thanks Happ. That sunset idea is a good one. I will take a look at your links.

Perth is pretty much bang on 32S so not too much different to San Diego. Coconuts are very marginal here. I only know of 3 in the ground here and one is mine.

Here are the actual Mt Lawley Perth metro figures

Jan 17.9C 30.9C

Feb 18C 31.3C

Mar 16.5C 29.5C

Apr 13.5C 25.6C

May 10.5C 22.4C

Jun 8.4C 19.3C

Jul 7.8C 18.3C

Aug 8.1C 18.8C

Sep 9.5C 20C

Oct 11.2C 22.9C

Nov 14.1C 26.2C

Dec 16.2C 28.8C

A little different to the weather.com figures.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Justin]

Basically though So Cal and Perth are a very close match. I bet you'd grow Proteas and Banksias very well over there in a sandy medium.

Best regards

Tyrone

They grow here very well, but only in non-clay soils. Alas, much of coastal Southern California has clay, and people water them too much and they die. I, however, have been blessed with fast-draining DG soil (dumb luck on my part), and I have about 50 Proteaceae (Banksia, Grevillea, Protea, Leucadendron, Leucospermum, Hakea, Stenocarpus, Telopea) all over my yard.

I've checked out Perth several times, and I (personally) think it has better weather, in large part due to the warmer ocean temperatures. This leads to higher rainfall, higher year-round humidity, less fog, etc. But we don't have huge fly-storms here, so maybe it balances out.

[happ]

Thanks Happ. That sunset idea is a good one. I will take a look at your links.

Perth is pretty much bang on 32S so not too much different to San Diego. Coconuts are very marginal here. I only know of 3 in the ground here and one is mine.

Here are the actual Mt Lawley Perth metro figures

Jan 17.9C 30.9C

Feb 18C 31.3C

Mar 16.5C 29.5C

Apr 13.5C 25.6C

May 10.5C 22.4C

Jun 8.4C 19.3C

Jul 7.8C 18.3C

Aug 8.1C 18.8C

Sep 9.5C 20C

Oct 11.2C 22.9C

Nov 14.1C 26.2C

Dec 16.2C 28.8C

A little different to the weather.com figures.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thanks for clarifying the data, Tyrone. After you pointed out the mistakes Weather.com made I realize the ridiculous bias toward Imperial units. I think the U.S. is the only country left that doesn't universally use Celsius. It is a common practice to round off tenths of a degree using Fahrenheit [instead of 73.7F it is generally recorded as merely 73F]. But, for example, the difference between 23.3C and 23.9C is two degrees Fahrenheit. Based on the monthly temperatures you provided I have put together what should be a more accurate comparison between Mt Lawley Perth and San Diego. Keep in mind that the San Diego data is from the airport which is at sea-level right on San Diego bay. 5-10 miles\ 8.0-16.0km further into San Diego city it is warmer during the day and cooler at night.

Maximum\ MinimumF

Winter:

Perth: 64-66F \ 46-47F

San Diego: 66F \ 49-52F

Spring:

Perth: 68-79F \ 49-57F

San Diego: 66-70F\ 54-60F

Summer:

Perth: 83-88F \ 61-64F

San Diego: 72-78F \ 63-67F

Autumn:

Perth: 72-85F \ 50-61F

San Diego: 70-77F \ 55-66F

Maximum\ MinimumC

Winter:

Perth: 18.3-19.3C \ 7.8-8.4C

San Diego: 18.8C \ 9.4-11.1C

Spring:

Perth: 20-26.2C \ 9.5-14.1C

San Diego: 18.8-21.1C \ 12.2-15.5C

Summer:

Perth: 28.8-31.3C \ 16.2-18C

San Diego: 22.2-25.5C \ 17.2-19.4C

Autumn:

Perth: 22.4-29.5C \ 10.5-16.5C

San Diego: 21.1-25C \ 12.7-18.8C

Overall San Diego is cooler than Perth during the day and warmer than Perth at night due to it's waterfront location. Perhaps the City Beach section of Perth would be more like the San Diego airport station. Mt Lawley Perth's climate is closer to Lemon Grove except annual rainfall.

[Tyrone]

Thanks for that Happ.

I think looking at your figures, you are right, Lemon Grove, inland San Diego and Mt Lawley Perth metro have similar temps. As far as mins are concerned the San Diego airport figures would probably be identical to Swanbourne right on the Indian Ocean. The humidity is quite high there too, but the seabreezes are painful. But even along the coast in places like Swanbourne it is still warmer than San Diego in summer due to the lack of a marine layer. We did have one day last summer when a marine layer came right in like a thick fog. It was very unusual and everyone at the beach panicked because they thought something was on fire like Rottnest Island. It was a hot day too, but the humidity went sky high. We're not used to that sort of thing over here. Visibility went down to 50m (150ft).

San Diego airports climate is a very liveable climate. Very nice. Not too hot in the day and not too cold at night. No wonder the NC palms do so well there.

Best regards

Tyrone

[bubba]

The scope of the California microclimates makes for very interesting reading. It seems that you can see significant changes almost every 300 yards in places. This is nearly incomprehensible to a Floridian, whose only microclimate of significance is proximity to the Gulfstream or other bodies of water like lakes.The Ocean and Gulf seem to be the only major players.

[Justin]

The scope of the California microclimates makes for very interesting reading. It seems that you can see significant changes almost every 300 yards in places. This is nearly incomprehensible to a Floridian, whose only microclimate of significance is proximity to the Gulfstream or other bodies of water like lakes.The Ocean and Gulf seem to be the only major players.

Bubba, in my own yard, I noticed major variations when we had the freeze in 2007. I had some Archontophoenix turn chocolate brown (and almost die) in the low part of my backyard, while the exact same species did not so much as spot in the front yard near the street. My lot is on a slope, and the elevation change from the top to the bottom is probably 50 feet (16 meters). The cold air comes down the hill and settles at the bottom. If I lived on the other side of the street (the high side), the coldest part of the yard would be on par with what the warmest part of my current yard is. In fact, the other side of my street is on the crest of a hill, and I've wondered several times if those houses have similar weather to Darian's place.

[trioderob]

one thing about both vista and lemon grove (which is the area I live in)

is that they are right at the border where the morning and night overcast ocean clouds/fog stop.

so in other words almost every night I see a clear line of fog

that is just 1 mile west of me but almost never over me.

I believe its the same at Darians house.

This is called the sub tropical zone which is only a small % of the total area.

it runs 5-8 miles inland only. avacado grow like crazy in this zone.

move any farther east and it freezes in dec/jan (el cajon santee etc....)

move any farther west and the summer temps are only in the 70s and the percent of sunshine drops

right on the coast the weather is very moderate and palms such as the flamethowers and coconuts thrive (with overhead protection

needed for the coconuts to keep rain off them in winter)

there are very dry winds in oct that fry the leaves of palms such as the teddy bear in all areas except right on the coast.

the best areas to live are 1-3 miles inland. (weather guys check stats for chula vista califonia)

if you are in a valley that blocks your path west to the ocean you will have bad weather in many cases (bad for southern cal)

go to a zone 23 subtropical area and you will see huge healthy palms example : LA MESA california

here is a nice link : My link

Edited July 28, 2010 by trioderob

[Tyrone]

The scope of the California microclimates makes for very interesting reading. It seems that you can see significant changes almost every 300 yards in places. This is nearly incomprehensible to a Floridian, whose only microclimate of significance is proximity to the Gulfstream or other bodies of water like lakes.The Ocean and Gulf seem to be the only major players.

I agree. It's quite complex, but I'm learning. Where I live has similar So Cal weather but without all the undulations canyons and mountains, so being a flat coastal plain it has certain similarities to Florida as well. Also we have lots of deep sand, and along the coast it's all alkaline, so we're like Florida again when it comes to soils, whereas So Cal is basically alkaline clay. I find it very useful to try to understand the different growing conditions in the US so I can make use of the experiences presented here. Those So Cal maps come in handy for that.

So sunset zone 24 reaches all the way to Tijuana. That is close to my distance from the equator at 32N.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Mike in Nelson]

Lemon Grove is called " "the Best Climate on Earth"

Vista is called "a Climatic Wonderland"

both are about 8 miles inland

both are famous for their perfect weather

both are in the primo Sunset zone 23

WHICH TOWN HAS THE BEST PALM WEATHER IN THE WEST ????

Ok, so apart from the min and max temps of these two areas, what about sunshine hours and rainfall? That has to be factored in aswell.

[bubba]

Happ's Sunset link also discloses the climatic regions for the entire US (I have the book)but they have updated because they now include Hawaii(ie H1 and H2).South Florida is 25,Inland Florida from Ocala to points as far South as Everglades City is 26,the RGV is 27 and the Gulf Coast region is 28...The comparison of Western climates to Eastern climates is really impossible but Sunset makes the best effort I have seen. It would be extremely interesting to see Sunset's criteria applied to Australia, New Zealand, Tazmania together with the other spots like South Africa, Europe,et. al. that are interesting to Palm fanatics and climate fanatics.

Perth has always been extremely interesting(not to dis anyother part of Australia)because of it's incredible climate and probably because it is so far from here.It seems that it is somewhere between 23 and 24 with a slash of 25 for humidity.

The variety of the California micro-climates can be seen when San Diego and Los Angeles have about 10 zones for such a relatively small area.It seems that even Sunset cannot comprehensively address the differences that folks see between front and back yards(see Justin).This is mind-boggling to an East Coaster.

It seems that the perfect climate in California is located at the absolute edge of 24 and 23.Is this where Darian's place is located or should I rephrase and ask where Darian's place(City) is located?

[palmpuppy]

• The west and south-facing hills in Camp Pendleton just east of the 5
• Any hill in Vista that has unimpeded ocean breezes (e.g. Darian's place)

That's pretty much our location, sunset zone 23, W/SW facing hill, unimpeded ocean breezes. This year, however, we are experiencing record-breaking low temps for summer. Feels great, but the palms would definitely prefer warmer. Not sure what that means for this winter

[Tyrone]

Happ's Sunset link also discloses the climatic regions for the entire US (I have the book)but they have updated because they now include Hawaii(ie H1 and H2).South Florida is 25,Inland Florida from Ocala to points as far South as Everglades City is 26,the RGV is 27 and the Gulf Coast region is 28...The comparison of Western climates to Eastern climates is really impossible but Sunset makes the best effort I have seen. It would be extremely interesting to see Sunset's criteria applied to Australia, New Zealand, Tazmania together with the other spots like South Africa, Europe,et. al. that are interesting to Palm fanatics and climate fanatics.

Perth has always been extremely interesting(not to dis anyother part of Australia)because of it's incredible climate and probably because it is so far from here.It seems that it is somewhere between 23 and 24 with a slash of 25 for humidity.

The variety of the California micro-climates can be seen when San Diego and Los Angeles have about 10 zones for such a relatively small area.It seems that even Sunset cannot comprehensively address the differences that folks see between front and back yards(see Justin).This is mind-boggling to an East Coaster.

It seems that the perfect climate in California is located at the absolute edge of 24 and 23.Is this where Darian's place is located or should I rephrase and ask where Darian's place(City) is located?

Just read this in the zone 24 San Diego section and this definitely applies to my area and the entire Swan coastal plain in general.

"Tender perennials like geraniums and impatiens rarely go out of bloom here; spathiphyllums and pothos become outdoor plants; and tender palms are safe from killing frosts. In this climate, gardens that include such plants as ornamental figs, rubber trees, and scheffleras can become jungles."

My spathiphyllum flowers last long into the winter and sometimes into spring. Ornamental figs and Sceffleras are very commonly grown, and yes they can take over and become jungles.

Best regards

Tyrone