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Longevity of palm 'heels'

Morabeza

By Morabeza
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Morabeza Proficient

Morabeza

Posted
Posted

Feedback on cultivated and naturally occurring specimens would be appreciated!

Mahalo

Palm heel scribble

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Hi Jacob.

You may or may not have seen my "Dypsis sp. slick willy" (as yet unnamed) anyway, this photo shows a "heel" in the back very well. I am sure the palm is OVER 10 YEARS OLD. And nope, I'm not gonna "knock it off"..:huh:

post-27-12782005727946_thumb.jpg

Anyway, I've wondered about this for some time, and I have noticed that MOST heeled palms are either quite large at maturity or maybe tall too. They often come from places that had large amounts of "leaf litter" etc. in the germination area. My hypothesis is that they have learned/adapted to push down to reach firm soil, before starting the trip back "up". Trying to be big or tall based on leaf litter would present a stability problem, so this is the method to find a sturdy anchor point. The problem most have is planting these on "firm" soil as it were and then the growing point continues to burrow down for some time at which point it gets quite easy to rot out the growing point from there, leading to eventual death. Planting high or on a mound helps to alleviate the problem.

I'm sure you knew most of that but I typed it anyway. :)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Morabeza Proficient

Morabeza

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you Bill! Ten years, that is long. I wonder if 20 or 30 years on the heel is still 'kicking' :lol: !

Lowey Experienced

Lowey

Posted
Posted

Nice theory Bill, I had never thought of that and even if Jacob knew what you typed, I did not, so thanks as I am soon going to plant anumber of my larger Dypsis and had wondered abot the depth issue. :D

Bruce

Innisfail - NQ AUS - 3600mm of rain a year average or around 144inches if you prefer - Temp Range 9c to 43c

Kumar Veteran

Kumar

Posted
Posted

Hi Jacob.

I'm sure you knew most of that but I typed it anyway. :)

Hi, I don't know what a palm heel is (or perhaps I have seen it but cannot relate). Could you elaborate a bit? What sort of palms is this to be found?

____________________

Kumar

Bombay, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 23 - 32 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 3400.0 mm

Calcutta, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 19 - 33 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 1600.0 mm

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Hi Jacob.

I'm sure you knew most of that but I typed it anyway. :)

Hi, I don't know what a palm heel is (or perhaps I have seen it but cannot relate). Could you elaborate a bit? What sort of palms is this to be found?

Kumar, the link from Jacob explains a bit if you follow it as to which palms get them and what it is. But a LOT of the large Dypsis do. Some can be very prominent.

I drew on my pic to point out the heel. If you click on the picture it will be large enough to see. Eventually they will crumble away.

post-27-12782551050052_thumb.jpg

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Kumar Veteran

Kumar

Posted
Posted

Thanks Bill - this is interesting. just when you think you have understood it all, along comes something new!

I find the complexity of this heel formation similar to the mechanics of how slender juveniles (esp foxtails and royals) dramatically increase stem girth in the initial years causing fully grown leaves to partially 'unwrap' as their circumference becomes inadequate to encircle the girth.

____________________

Kumar

Bombay, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 23 - 32 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 3400.0 mm

Calcutta, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 19 - 33 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 1600.0 mm

Morabeza Proficient

Morabeza

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Scott Zona explained that these saxophone heels do decompose after all, once the trunk takes over in the roles of anchorage and feeding the palm. Knowing this I suppose the 'life span' of the heel really depends on the growth rate and situation (soils, stability) of each individual palm plant.

So I am guessing that a tillering Dypsis in Hawai'i will loose its heel faster than one in California, due to the faster rate of maturation in the former.

rthink Proficient

rthink

Posted
Posted

My Ravenia xerophila still shows heels after 10 years. One of the reason might be that it has been staying in the pot so the trunk is never big enough to take over the heel.

I plan to put this one in the ground soon so we'll see what happen with the heel.

post-72-12785589328198_thumb.jpg

Chalermchart Soorangura

Bangkok, Thailand

http://picasaweb.google.com/csoorangura/My...key=u11QvNs-qbM

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Yeah Chalermchart, I have one in the pot doing the same thing...its enormous.

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

hanapalms Proficient

hanapalms

Posted
Posted

I have encountered heels among my palms over the years, the most significant one was on a Polyandrococos caudescens while it was potted, and for some time after I put it in the ground. But, I have no idea how long it persisted because I was not paying it any attention once the tree was in the ground. I think the palm was potted for several years. Here's what it looks like now:

post-3769-12785606509981_thumb.jpg

It's not a particularly large palm, more medium I would say.

I believe my potted Lemurophoenix halleuxii has a heel. Got a photo of it here, but not sure if the heel is visible.

post-3769-1278560883368_thumb.jpg

You can just see it if you enlarge the picture on your screen. It's tan in color, there is a leaf behind it that's almost the same color.

Until recently, I didn't even know it was called a heel. :huh:

William

Hana, Maui

 

Land of the low lying heavens, the misty Uakea crowning the majestic Kauwiki.

Visit my palms here

newtothis Rising Star

newtothis

Posted
Posted

I asked about this in the beginner section. All my sabals have this. Its frustrating when you plant exactly where you want it, then it moves over!

Palm crazy Grand Master

Palm crazy

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think this palm heel is finally dying off....baby Sabal uresana.

DSC00005-3.jpg

DSC00003-6.jpg

Edited by Palm crazy
  • 4 years later...
Moose Grand Master

Moose

Posted
Posted

Hi Jacob.

You may or may not have seen my "Dypsis sp. slick willy" (as yet unnamed) anyway, this photo shows a "heel" in the back very well. I am sure the palm is OVER 10 YEARS OLD. And nope, I'm not gonna "knock it off"..huh.gif

attachicon.gif6-10 001.jpg

Anyway, I've wondered about this for some time, and I have noticed that MOST heeled palms are either quite large at maturity or maybe tall too. They often come from places that had large amounts of "leaf litter" etc. in the germination area. My hypothesis is that they have learned/adapted to push down to reach firm soil, before starting the trip back "up". Trying to be big or tall based on leaf litter would present a stability problem, so this is the method to find a sturdy anchor point. The problem most have is planting these on "firm" soil as it were and then the growing point continues to burrow down for some time at which point it gets quite easy to rot out the growing point from there, leading to eventual death. Planting high or on a mound helps to alleviate the problem.

I'm sure you knew most of that but I typed it anyway. :)

Interesting observations Bill :interesting:

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Darold Petty Grand Master

Darold Petty

Posted
Posted

My Ceroxylon quindiuense has 5 meters of wood trunk, has been ground-planted for 32 years, and still has a prominent, firm 'heel'. Only the top of the heel is still visible due to applications of mulch. I'll try to get a photo in the next few days.

  • Like 1

San Francisco, California

BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

That Dypsis in my pic still has its heel AND its got probably 4' of trunk AND is 8-10" in diameter too!

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

Capnrey Enthusiast

Capnrey

Posted
Posted

Perhaps this explains to me the bulge at the base of my Ravanea Glauca. It does seem to ACT as a 'heel' for the trunk, since it is growing at a slight angle. Very interesting discovery for me.

post-10438-0-47202500-1411750392_thumb.j

-REY

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