Palms in Yorkshire/Northern England

[Ryland]

While cruising over England in Google Earth the other day, I happened to spot a picture containing a young Phoenix canariensis, in Sheffield of all places! Sheffield is certainly a zone 8 climate. It got me wondering, what other palms are being grown up there? Any UK members care to share?




Here is a picture of the palm. Since it is from google earth it is the only one I have.

[Alberto]

It got me wondering, what other palms are being grown up there? Any UK members care to share?

In England are grown Jubaeas,CIDP,all kind of Butias, Brahea armataB,B.edulis, Juania australis etc but there specialyy are Trachycarpus fortunei and wagnerianus... Las winter was terrible for the palms in Europe.

Take a look at www.palmsociety.org.uk

[ricky]

hi rylandus you can grow quite a few different palms in the UK like Alberto pointed out

trachycarpus fortunei/wagnerianus/latsctus/nanus/martianus

trithrinax campestris

washingtonia robusta

phoenix canariensis

jubaea

butia x jubaea

chamaerops humilis/vulcano/cerifera

chamaedorea radicalis/microspadix

butiagrus

butia eriospatha/yatay/odorata/capitata

brahea edulis/armata

livistona australis/chinensis

parajubaea

rhopalostylis sapida

a few people also manage to grow sabals/archontophoenix/caryota maxima/rhapidophyllum hystrix/these palm all need higher temps than we typically get in the uk and don't do well with the endless frosts we get minus the needle palm

there are more species that people are trying and it should be noted that not all the above palms are totally hardy in the uk and some need protection from frost and low temps which stop palms growing for a big chunk of the year which makes recovery's a slow and drawn out processes

http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=IENGLAND51&graphspan=custom&month=1&day=1&year=2007&monthend=6&dayend=8&yearend=2010

added weather stats for anyone that's interested

ricky

Edited June 7, 2010 by ricky

[peachy]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

[ricky]

thanks peachy yes we can grow quiet a few types of palms last winter did kill quiet a lot of palms in the UK when temperatures plummeted -7.9 and stayed frozen for around five weeks with the second coldest winter in 30 years here's hoping we get a decent summer and a milder winter here's a pic of the UK when we frozen under the snow

ricky

[mlovecan]

Hi Rylandus,

Working in London where CIDP's, Trachys and Med Fan Palms are is quite popular here with many getting fairly large. There are alot of fine examples of other species but in a city the size of London, relatively few folk are realizing other the possibilities,

All of the DIY's ( home-depot types ) stock CIDP's that are tagged stating somthing like "recognized by the Royal Botanical Society" as some level of excellence in suitability for the UK climate. When you go to the shops, they are flying out the door!

Regards

Maurice

BTW. I have an Aunt living between SLO and Pismo Beach - strikingly beautiful scenic area!

[peachy]

thanks peachy yes we can grow quiet a few types of palms last winter did kill quiet a lot of palms in the UK when temperatures plummeted -7.9 and stayed frozen for around five weeks with the second coldest winter in 30 years here's hoping we get a decent summer and a milder winter here's a pic of the UK when we frozen under the snow

ricky

OOH thats icy. I cant even see Tingley !!

Peachy

[AJQ]

Yep, we can grow a lot more that most guys would think possible. I'm amazed myself at what actually survived our winter and disappointed in some that I thought would have been hardier, Para jubs for example.

Regards Andy.

[RyManUtah]

that looks way too cold haha

[ricky]

ha yes freezing cold

i after say it did actually make a change because mostly our winters are just wet and muddy and it was a nice change to have some real snow just a same it killed so many borderline plants and palms and i just want to say i will be happy with just the rain this winter please

Edited June 10, 2010 by ricky

[Ryland]

Thanks for your replies! I am surprised by the variety that is grown up there, particularly the CIDPs, Parajubaea, Chamaedorea, Washingtonia robusta, Livistona and Rhopalostylis. I Suppose Rhopies would enjoy the cool summers.

Nice to know they are becoming available in stores as well.

[Tyrone]

When I was in London, Tesco's were selling Musa sikkimensis. Boy I wished I could have bought one and brought it back in a bag on the plane to Oz. If I tried it I would have been escorted away by quarantine officers when landing in Perth. That banana would have grown so well here. Impossible to get in Oz anywhere. So even though the climate isn't the best, the UK doesn't have half the quarantine issues other places have. I'm amazed what people grow in the UK. Down in Devon they have the tallest Trachies I've ever seen.

Best regards

Tyrone

[AJQ]

Must be Takils then ; )

Rgds Andy

[Kev Spence]

Ryland I live not too far from Sheffield and I should think the Phoenix in your shot has been wiped out by now, after the last winter, as most have in the UK.

There are a few further south that have been fine though here is a friends palm in the south west of the UK.

My palm planted in 2002 same spp was totally killed this year mainly due to daytime temps not rising above 3 C in the day time for months on end.

Also most Washingtonia are dead as are Parajubs, Butiagrus though my Juania australis and Rhopalostylis sapida are making a concerted comeback.

[Tyrone]

Kevin that's a big canary for the UK. Sad to see the state of the others though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[ricky]

not so fast Kev iv got two cidp and both survived this winter with no real damage in pots pushed up to the house with just a double folded groundsheet over them to keep the snow and ice of i did lose my washy though gutted as this was my fist palm had him just over twelve years IL get the camera on charge and take some pics later

ricky

Edited June 11, 2010 by ricky

[Jonathan]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

Thats crazy talk....England is generally much colder than the South Island of NZ - unless you're talking way inland or up in the mountains. The South Island climate is very similar to here in Tasmania - we can pretty easily grow Archontophoenix, all the LHI palms, Rhopolostylis, Chamaedoreas, etc, because we never get frigid continental outbreaks like Northern Europe and the U.S. do. Tasmania and New Zealand are protected from extreme cold by thousands of km's of ocean. We get some radiational freezes on still nights but they are gone by the next day, and daytime temps are very rarely below 10C

I think Mike in Nelson is trying Hyoforbe indica in the ground this spring!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[peachy]

England is an island too ....so there !!

Peachy

[Tyrone]

England is an island too ....so there !!

Peachy

Yes, but you can swim to the continent from the UK.

[Tyrone]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

Thats crazy talk....England is generally much colder than the South Island of NZ - unless you're talking way inland or up in the mountains. The South Island climate is very similar to here in Tasmania - we can pretty easily grow Archontophoenix, all the LHI palms, Rhopolostylis, Chamaedoreas, etc, because we never get frigid continental outbreaks like Northern Europe and the U.S. do. Tasmania and New Zealand are protected from extreme cold by thousands of km's of ocean. We get some radiational freezes on still nights but they are gone by the next day, and daytime temps are very rarely below 10C

I think Mike in Nelson is trying Hyoforbe indica in the ground this spring!

Cheers,

Jonathan

England is probably fine for many species for many years, until they get a one in 30 years "freeze everything to death" event. Probably only one place in the UK which may be comparable to South Island NZ is the Isles of Scilly. (Did I spell that right?) It's in the southwest at about 50N and right in the gulf stream off the coast. I think it's frost free or almost.

Best regards

Tyrone

[richnorm]

England is an island too ....so there !!

Peachy

England is an island? Wasn't when I was brought up there!

[peachy]

Okay so I forgot about the celtic provinces. (one on the top and one on the side) All up its an island.

sheesh

Peachy

[John in Andalucia]

Peachy, I know you meant England is an island country when you posted.

[reggieroo]

England is probably fine for many species for many years, until they get a one in 30 years "freeze everything to death" event. Probably only one place in the UK which may be comparable to South Island NZ is the Isles of Scilly. (Did I spell that right?) It's in the southwest at about 50N and right in the gulf stream off the coast. I think it's frost free or almost.

Best regards

Tyrone

Pretty much bang on the nail, that one in 30 years "freeze everything to death" event happened last Winter just gone & wiped out nine of my palms apart from my Trachycarpus fortunei's & a few Chamaerops humilis. One Chamaerops I thought was completely dead has just shot up two new spears & only had one leaf leff, that was in a pot. One I had in the ground got one hell of a beating, lost 50% of it leaves but spears seem ok & are coming though. Butia capitata & CIDP's all dead

Edited June 11, 2010 by reggieroo

[Jonathan]

England is an island too ....so there !!

Peachy

Yes, but you can swim to the continent from the UK.

Yep - I wouldn't want to swim Bass Strait!

[Mike in Nelson]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

I think Mike in Nelson is trying Hyoforbe indica in the ground this spring!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Definitely won't be this spring Jonathan. They are only seedling size at present so it could be a couple more years yet.

[Mike in Nelson]

Okay so I forgot about the celtic provinces. (one on the top and one on the side) All up its an island.

sheesh

Peachy

LOL! I think we all have too much time on our hands sometimes.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Mike in Nelson

[Jonathan]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

Thats crazy talk....England is generally much colder than the South Island of NZ - unless you're talking way inland or up in the mountains. The South Island climate is very similar to here in Tasmania - we can pretty easily grow Archontophoenix, all the LHI palms, Rhopolostylis, Chamaedoreas, etc, because we never get frigid continental outbreaks like Northern Europe and the U.S. do. Tasmania and New Zealand are protected from extreme cold by thousands of km's of ocean. We get some radiational freezes on still nights but they are gone by the next day, and daytime temps are very rarely below 10C

I think Mike in Nelson is trying Hyoforbe indica in the ground this spring!

Cheers,

Jonathan

England is probably fine for many species for many years, until they get a one in 30 years "freeze everything to death" event. Probably only one place in the UK which may be comparable to South Island NZ is the Isles of Scilly. (Did I spell that right?) It's in the southwest at about 50N and right in the gulf stream off the coast. I think it's frost free or almost.

Best regards

Tyrone

The Isles of Scilly are the Northern equivalent of the Chathams, which are at 45 South...the only difference being the Chathams have native palms!

Mike - have you tried any Pritchardias at your place?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Ryland]

Kev,

The palms in your pictures are very impressive for the UK. I'm sorry about your losses, but it is reassuring to see Brahea and Chamaerops doing well in your photographs.

[SouthSeaNate]

We have some nice palms on the south coast of England too...

And in my own garden CIDP, Washingtonia robusta, Livistona australis, Livistona chinensis, Butyagrus, Juania australis, Parajubaea TVT, Chamaedorea radicalis, Trachycarpus fortunei, Trachycarpus latisectus, Trachycarpus martianus, Trachycarpus 'Nova', Butia capitata & Chamaerops humilis survived this past cold winter with no damage at all. And I was able to grow Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Howea forsteriana, Rhopalostylis sapida, Rhopalostylis bauerii & Phoenix roebellenii for several years, before being killed by this last winter... (though one Archontophoenix, a Phoenix roebellenii & a Rhopalostylis sapida are still alive & are recovering)

Pics show Butia capitata & Phoenix canariensis planted on my local seafront.

[richnorm]

We have some nice palms on the south coast of England too...

And in my own garden CIDP, Washingtonia robusta, Livistona australis, Livistona chinensis, Butyagrus, Juania australis, Parajubaea TVT, Chamaedorea radicalis, Trachycarpus fortunei, Trachycarpus latisectus, Trachycarpus martianus, Trachycarpus 'Nova', Butia capitata & Chamaerops humilis survived this past cold winter with no damage at all. And I was able to grow Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Howea forsteriana, Rhopalostylis sapida, Rhopalostylis bauerii & Phoenix roebellenii for several years, before being killed by this last winter... (though one Archontophoenix, a Phoenix roebellenii & a Rhopalostylis sapida are still alive & are recovering)

Pics show Butia capitata & Phoenix canariensis planted on my local seafront.

I am quite shocked at what you can grow and how mild your minima are! There would be dozens of species more hardy than Archontophoenix for you to try. Have you tried any dypsis?

cheers

Richard

[Mike in Nelson]

Wow Ricky, I have stopped feeling sorry for palm deprived pomgolians now. You can grow as many as they can in New Zealand's south island.

Peachy

Thats crazy talk....England is generally much colder than the South Island of NZ - unless you're talking way inland or up in the mountains. The South Island climate is very similar to here in Tasmania - we can pretty easily grow Archontophoenix, all the LHI palms, Rhopolostylis, Chamaedoreas, etc, because we never get frigid continental outbreaks like Northern Europe and the U.S. do. Tasmania and New Zealand are protected from extreme cold by thousands of km's of ocean. We get some radiational freezes on still nights but they are gone by the next day, and daytime temps are very rarely below 10C

I think Mike in Nelson is trying Hyoforbe indica in the ground this spring!

Cheers,

Jonathan

England is probably fine for many species for many years, until they get a one in 30 years "freeze everything to death" event. Probably only one place in the UK which may be comparable to South Island NZ is the Isles of Scilly. (Did I spell that right?) It's in the southwest at about 50N and right in the gulf stream off the coast. I think it's frost free or almost.

Best regards

Tyrone

The Isles of Scilly are the Northern equivalent of the Chathams, which are at 45 South...the only difference being the Chathams have native palms!

Mike - have you tried any Pritchardias at your place?

Cheers,

Jonathan

No I haven't. There are some hardier species that would be worth a try.....if I only had the room.

[SouthSeaNate]

I am quite shocked at what you can grow and how mild your minima are! There would be dozens of species more hardy than Archontophoenix for you to try. Have you tried any dypsis?

cheers

Richard

That's what comes from living in the UK's only city situated on its own Island Richard

I have tried a tiny Dypsis decipiens before without success, I would try again with a larger one though. This year I have planted a Hedyscepe & a Beccariophoenix alfredii, so I'm hoping they will do ok...

Nathan

[peachy]

Jonathan, darling, dearest, sweetie, lamb, pet, did you read any of the above ??? I can't sit around, got my fur to lick and whiskers to clean.

Peachy

PS Nathan, arent you the dearest little possum for giving us all those species that you can grow.

[SouthSeaNate]

Jonathan, darling, dearest, sweetie, lamb, pet, did you read any of the above ??? I can't sit around, got my fur to lick and whiskers to clean.

Peachy

PS Nathan, arent you the dearest little possum for giving us all those species that you can grow.

Peachy, it's a proper little mini Oz here at my abode, with me being a Possum & my pet Galah & Corella

(oh & my addiction to Neighbours & Home & Away )

[Jonathan]

Jonathan, darling, dearest, sweetie, lamb, pet, did you read any of the above ??? I can't sit around, got my fur to lick and whiskers to clean.

Peachy

PS Nathan, arent you the dearest little possum for giving us all those species that you can grow.

Dear Peaches,

I'd like to point out firstly that the title of this thread, refers initially to Yorkshire and Northern England.

I'd also like to point out in my defence that every country/state/region has a wide variety of microclimates, so if you live right on the south coast of England, sheltered from the north, of course its going to be warmer than the rest of the country.

However if your record low temperature is -9 degrees celcius with mild summers ( = slow recovery), then you are probably not in a long term survival area for Rhopalostylis, Hedyscepe, Howea's and Archontophoenix.

As S.S. Nate himself pointed out those species got fried last winter.....so what he in fact gave us was a list of some things he can grow, and some things that he cant. The first half of his list are tough palms that have a good chance in mild parts of Brittain, the second half very marginal. There would be plenty of other species worth trying as well, I'm sure.

My point is that the second half of Nates list are easy grows for us (and large parts of coastal S.I. NZ), because we are NOT subject to 10 or 20 year arctic outflow freezes like England is. In Tasmania at least our 10 year extreme temperatures are more likely to be 40C in summer....

Cheers,

Jonathan

[SouthSeaNate]

To be fair though Jonathan that -9C was a very long time ago & the past winter was the coldest in the UK for 30 years...

Tresco gardens on the Scilly Isles had mature (& fruiting) Rhopalostylis sapida & Archontophoenix cunninghamiana that were killed by a -7C back in 1987 (though some self seeded R. sapidas survived & are getting to a good size once again). So I wouldn't say we "can't" grow more tender palms such as Nikau's & Bangalow's, rather that they CAN grow in milder parts of the UK, BUT will be killed in a severe winter that we may get every 20-30 years or so... I'd rather enjoy them for that "borrowed time" instead of not growing them at all...

[Tyrone]

I was just thinking that back in the bad old days how there was a general thought in my area that most palms didn't grow here well, even though we're at the southern end of the dry subtropics. So people planted about 5 different species (Syagrus, Washies and mostly Phoenix) because they believed that was it. Then I used to think that you could grow very few palms down on the Southern ocean in southern west Oz, and now after trying a few and seeing them thrive I can see that I was wrong. What made me try things in areas cooler than I thought really worth trying was the English. I can't believe how many tropical plants/palms/cycads/banana's they actually grow over there in the UK despite things being frozen solid in winter. It may mean they have to do a bit of extra work to get them to thrive or even just survive, but when you compare the UK climate to the West Oz climate, the "Palms don't grow here argument" just looks ridiculous. Our winters are like a wet English summer, so what's our excuse over here.

I know the English are one of the original tropical plant collectors (look at Kew Gardens) and those who were well to do could afford heated glasshouses where they kept some really unbelievable stuff until the glass broke and it fell into disrepair etc, but what they've learnt to grow outside is incredible too.

So to all you English growers ( and those from Ireland and Scotland too) keep growing your tropicals despite the weather. I give you guys 10 out of 10 for trying to grow your plants in the first place, and 10 out of 10 for mostly succeeding. I say mostly because you can't control the weather, you merely make allowances for it and try to create the best microclimate you can.

It's great to be able to tell someone when asked, "Will it grow here" to answer "Well they're growing it in England". You get no argument from that answer.

I love pushing the boundaries here and I'm so happy that I'm growing an Areca catechu slowly but without a mark here in the ground for the last 3 winters. Also my Dwarf Malay coconut although partially covered in plastic seems to do OK too. Both species I was told wouldn't last a second by other local palm society members. At last count I was growing around 150 species of palms. I think the English boundary pushers kind of spurred me on. I reckon if some of the English palm growers lived here they'd probably be growing a V splendida in the ground successfully. That is one I won't bother with here. I'm not that good.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

To be fair though Jonathan that -9C was a very long time ago & the past winter was the coldest in the UK for 30 years...

Tresco gardens on the Scilly Isles had mature (& fruiting) Rhopalostylis sapida & Archontophoenix cunninghamiana that were killed by a -7C back in 1987 (though some self seeded R. sapidas survived & are getting to a good size once again). So I wouldn't say we "can't" grow more tender palms such as Nikau's & Bangalow's, rather that they CAN grow in milder parts of the UK, BUT will be killed in a severe winter that we may get every 20-30 years or so... I'd rather enjoy them for that "borrowed time" instead of not growing them at all...

Sorry Nate, I'm not trying to dump on yur climate at all - I was really just trying to point out that the south Island of New Zealand is a fair bit more mild than most of England (generally spaeaking!!!).

I live in a marginal area for palms myself and I really admire you guys for pushing the boundaries...keep up the good fight!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[reggieroo]

Well we do try