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Trachycarpus ukhrulensis


Kailua_Krish
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Kew lists tTrachycarpus ukhrulensis as an accepted species coming from India. Anyone heard of this or know anything about it? It was discovered in 2006 so I assume its fairly new.

-Krishna

P.S. I cant believe Waggies are not considered a species anymore but are not fortuneis... Strange...

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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I believe this is the new official name for Trachycarpus sp. 'Manipur'(RPS) also known as T. sp. 'Naga Hills' (Europalms). Not to be confused with T. martianus 'Patkai Hills' or T. m. 'Khasia Hills' which are from the same general region. It is claimed to be closely related to T. oreophilus from the Thailand highlands on the other side of Myanmar/Burma and was lumped in with this species at one point. Trebrown.com has a good summary in its palm archive: http://www.trebrown.com/plant_info.php?species=Trachycarpus+ukhrulensis. I have about 100 two year olds just pushing their first fan leaves and they saw 22 deg. F this past december without damage. Try this too: http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Trachycarpus/spManipur.html

Edited by monkeyranch
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I believe this is the new official name for Trachycarpus sp. 'Manipur'(RPS) also known as T. sp. 'Naga Hills' (Europalms). l

Yes ,this is the name of Trachycarpus sp Manipur.

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Great article and pictures.... Jv

Jv in San Antonio Texas / Zone 8/extremes past 29 yrs: 117F (47.2C) / 8F (-13.3C)

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Thanks for the replies everyone!

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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  • 1 year later...

I have a little Trachycarpus sp. Manipur or Naga Hills.

growth and very slow !

Trachycarpus ukhrulensis: I got 10 seeds last year, out of which 6 germinated (all other trachycarpus species was 0% (none) germination rate). It grows extremely slowly and stops. It gets easily damaged by sun and is very sensitive to fertiliser. Most of the plants I think they just stopped growing in the middle of summer or perhaps they are so slow that i don't notice any growth. The "largest" one i got has 3 leaves on it and is about 5 inches tall.

Average day temperatures: +17°C in the winter and +24°C in the summer. Typical Summer: 66F to 77F (19C to 25C). Typical Winter: 50F to 64F (10C to 18C). Record Low (past 5 years): 45F or +7.7C (once a winter, some winters). Record High (past 5 years): 80F or +27C (some days only). Elevation 140 m (459 ft.), latitude 38.54º. Sunset Zone: unknown

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About the theory to place al 3 palmspecies, Trachycarpus takil, T. ukhrulensis and T. oreophilus in one species I think thats not correct. All the 3 species are growing at isolated locations far from each other.They have a common ancestor but have evolved into 3 differend species. And under very differend climatic circumstances. I have seen both Trachycarpus takil and T. oreoiphilus in the wild. Well where T. takil grows its much coilder in winter, and much farther north. Trachycarpus oreophilus however grows on a tropical mountain at 2000 meters in Norther Thailand where you get maybe a few degrees of frost now and then, but not the cold and snow with wich Trachycarpus takil has to deal with near the Kalamuni Pass at 30 degrees latitude north. You can see some snow on Googleearth of that location where I have seen them.

Alexander

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I have a young T. ukrulensis in ground since last year. It's growing well, and is not slow at all. Until now the trunk has been creeping, and now it starts to enlarge the trunk and to go upward. It has been producing 1 leave every month since April. Here's some recent pics :

IMAG0958.jpg

IMAG0981.jpg

Edited by palmalyon69

Fabien - Lyon - USDA 8b

December : 33°F/44°C

July : 62°F/82°F

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I "had" two nice sized ones that came from the original seeds from 2006, I believe. Both planted last summer and looked great. Both had small but plantable-sized trunks, with petioles about 2-3' long. Both were put 'under cover' for winter, but with no extra heat. One of these still rotted this Spring and did not make it. :angry:

The other had spear pulls but has since re-grown 2 leaves. A very slow grower here in N.C. The new leaves from this summer do not look the same as last year's leaves. I guess it has a ways to go to recover yet. However, the leaves are certainly blue on the backsides.

C from NC

:)

Bone dry summers, wet winters, 2-3 days ea. winter in low teens.

Siler City, NC

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I just finished writing an article on Trachycarpus. I am attaching a pdf of the T. ukhrulensis chapter in case you want to know more about it.

Chris an excellent and very accurate article. I agree with Lorek about the fact it is impossible for trachcyarpus to grow across that huge tropical plain and in cultivation the two are very different.

Indeed if you lump oreophilus you have to lump takil together too.

Thereis some new photos I did not see before including the immature flower.

For the record, we tried to field grow this palm in south brasil without success. It does not like the high rainfall combined with heat of summer.

Albertos success on the brasil tablelands tells me it needs cool nights with very good draiange.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

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Well they come from an monsoon climate. So they want plenty water during summer!

Alexander

I keep them well watered. ;-)

Average day temperatures: +17°C in the winter and +24°C in the summer. Typical Summer: 66F to 77F (19C to 25C). Typical Winter: 50F to 64F (10C to 18C). Record Low (past 5 years): 45F or +7.7C (once a winter, some winters). Record High (past 5 years): 80F or +27C (some days only). Elevation 140 m (459 ft.), latitude 38.54º. Sunset Zone: unknown

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I have a young T. ukrulensis in ground since last year. It's growing well, and is not slow at all. Until now the trunk has been creeping, and now it starts to enlarge the trunk and to go upward. It has been producing 1 leave every month since April. Here's some recent pics :

IMAG0958.jpg

IMAG0981.jpg

Nice photos. Mine are just over 1 year old and are about 12-15 cm tall with just 2 leaves. A couple others have 3 leaves and grow very slowly (or are stalled) but they are in pots, not in the ground.

Average day temperatures: +17°C in the winter and +24°C in the summer. Typical Summer: 66F to 77F (19C to 25C). Typical Winter: 50F to 64F (10C to 18C). Record Low (past 5 years): 45F or +7.7C (once a winter, some winters). Record High (past 5 years): 80F or +27C (some days only). Elevation 140 m (459 ft.), latitude 38.54º. Sunset Zone: unknown

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  • 1 year later...

I am growing Trachycarpus ukhrulensis in pots. I had 6 of these germinate (don't remember how many seeds I had, I think I had 20 seeds). They germinated over 3 years ago and still are very small plants, most still are seedlings in size and are growing very very very slowly. 2 of them died. Not from cold, maybe from overwatering. Only one is larger, probably 1 1/2 ft. in overall eight. They are extremely sensitive to overwatering and to something else. I tried to keep them in the sun room, outdoors in the shade, semi shade, full sun etc. Are they a.k.a. of Trachycarpus oreophilus?

Average day temperatures: +17°C in the winter and +24°C in the summer. Typical Summer: 66F to 77F (19C to 25C). Typical Winter: 50F to 64F (10C to 18C). Record Low (past 5 years): 45F or +7.7C (once a winter, some winters). Record High (past 5 years): 80F or +27C (some days only). Elevation 140 m (459 ft.), latitude 38.54º. Sunset Zone: unknown

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  • 1 year later...

I just finished writing an article on Trachycarpus. I am attaching a pdf of the T. ukhrulensis chapter in case you want to know more about it.

Chris an excellent and very accurate article. I agree with Lorek about the fact it is impossible for trachcyarpus to grow across that huge tropical plain and in cultivation the two are very different.

Indeed if you lump oreophilus you have to lump takil together too.

Thereis some new photos I did not see before including the immature flower.

For the record, we tried to field grow this palm in south brasil without success. It does not like the high rainfall combined with heat of summer.

Albertos success on the brasil tablelands tells me it needs cool nights with very good draiange.

Nigel, I have 2 of these growing in Gainesville, FL, and they have done very well here. Gainesville is very hot and humid during the summer, with plenty of rainfall. They are planted in very well-draining sandy soil.

IMG_20141127_123332_226_zps5kx2ddvv.jpg

IMG_20141127_123528_142_zpskiae1xpa.jpg

Edited by Frank - Knoxville
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Thanks, Flow! These palms are starting to actually look like something now, which is nice. They are developing a small scale problem, which I'll have to treat soon. If Dad can keep the lawn mower off of them for the next few years, they should be home free, LOL.

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My contribution to the thread........4 years from a 1 gallon.....

post-646-0-88120100-1417296039_thumb.jpg

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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OK, now I want one. does anyone know where I can get a T. Sp. naga hills?? This look like a must have palm for zone 9a garden

Frank, great pictures!! They look so pretty.

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh, not sure about who sells plants, but RPS has seeds (they now list it as T. oreophilus Naga Hills/Manipur on their site).

Edited by Frank - Knoxville
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@Chris
I think what is really needed to determine if T. ukhrulensis is a valid species or synonymous with T. oreophilus is some serious DNA research on the entire genus Trachycarpus. My problem with Lorek's description is that I can find nothing in it that would not fit within the variability of T. oreophilus and unfortunately he did not make a direct comparison to T. oreophilus. Also, his herbarium specimens are very poor and unfit to show any meaningful distinguishing characteristics.
The fact that the tropical Irrawaddy plain divides central Burma (but not the very north) does not mean that the same species cannot occur on mountains on both sides. The same is true for T. martianus in the Himalayas and in Meghalaya, which are divided by the Assam plain, and for many other palms elsewhere.

@Alexander
T. takil and T. oreophilus are CLEARLY distinct, there is no doubt about that. Climate, however, is not necessarily one of the factors that would separate the two, just look at the wide altitudinal range that other palms show.

Best, TOBY

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@Chris

I think what is really needed to determine if T. ukhrulensis is a valid species or synonymous with T. oreophilus is some serious DNA research on the entire genus Trachycarpus. My problem with Lorek's description is that I can find nothing in it that would not fit within the variability of T. oreophilus and unfortunately he did not make a direct comparison to T. oreophilus. Also, his herbarium specimens are very poor and unfit to show any meaningful distinguishing characteristics.

The fact that the tropical Irrawaddy plain divides central Burma (but not the very north) does not mean that the same species cannot occur on mountains on both sides. The same is true for T. martianus in the Himalayas and in Meghalaya, which are divided by the Assam plain, and for many other palms elsewhere.

@Alexander

T. takil and T. oreophilus are CLEARLY distinct, there is no doubt about that. Climate, however, is not necessarily one of the factors that would separate the two, just look at the wide altitudinal range that other palms show.

Best, TOBY

I save seen both T. takil and T oreophilus in the wild. And they they show an altitudinal range of several hundreds of meters. With T. takil from 1800 till arround 2700 meters.

Alexander

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I save seen both T. takil and T oreophilus in the wild. And they they show an altitudinal range of several hundreds of meters. With T. takil from 1800 till arround 2700 meters.

Alexander

Indeed, but the problem is that on Doi Chiang Dao, T. oreophilus can only grow to the summit at 2,175m and it does not grow below 1700m. I am convinced that if the mountain was taller, you would be able to find it higher up as well.

Best, TOBY

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Josh, not sure about who sells plants, but RPS has seeds (they now list it as T. oreophilus Naga Hills/Manipur on their site).

thanks Frank for the info :greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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  • 1 month later...

Got some better pictures with a real camera on my visit to Gainesville over the holidays. They are nice little palms, and would do even better with some occasional fertilizer and I just gave them a treatment for a light scale infestation.

IMG_0228_zps77c7155a.jpg

IMG_0229_zps9c7e40b4.jpg

IMG_0231_zpsb7d2b645.jpg

IMG_0232_zpscec194ad.jpg

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Great pics. I am crossing my fingers that I have a few soon as my seeds should germinate soon.

They are incredibly slow for the first few years. These are finally picking up some steam. I wish I'd fertilized them a bit more when they were younger.

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I agree: They are slow and I give them NPK twice a year

post-465-0-63065500-1420859229_thumb.jpg

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Got some better pictures with a real camera on my visit to Gainesville over the holidays. They are nice little palms, and would do even better with some occasional fertilizer and I just gave them a treatment for a light scale infestation.

IMG_0228_zps77c7155a.jpg

IMG_0229_zps9c7e40b4.jpg

IMG_0231_zpsb7d2b645.jpg

IMG_0232_zpscec194ad.jpg

Yours look great!

Where is Smyrna ? (not in Turkey I suppose :-) ) Do you know in what kind of soil they grow in Gainesville? Alkaline or acid? Thanks!

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Alberto, Smyrna, Tennessee is about 15 minutes southeast of Nashville, Tennessee (USA). I have no idea how to change my screen name or I would because I haven't lived in Knoxville in almost 5 years.

I'm not positive on the pH of the soil in my folks' yard there in Gainesville. I should do a test. All of the palms in the yard seem to be pretty healthy without much extra fertilizer (if any). I did a little research, and it looks like where my folks live on the west side of town, the soil tends to be neutral to slightly alkaline. The soil is a sandy loam in this part of the yard, with the emphasis on sand.

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