Replacement Palm Recommendation Near Pool

[Patty S.]

I just discovered this wonderful forum and hope all the experts can chime in with some good suggestions on a replacement palm for a Canary Island Date palm that needs to be rehomed. Currently the CIDP is growing against a retaining wall, in a walkway that runs behind and below our swimming pool. I had a chance to meet the guys at Junglemusic.net last weekend, at the Encinitas Garden Tour. Wowie wow. That's a might dangerous nursery to spend any time at, and with credit cards in your pocket, lol!! I got a few suggestions, but thought I'd open this up to a bunch of great experts on this forum. I've attached some pics. We live in Vista, CA, zone 10a, Sunset 23, in the hills. Can get some freezing temps, but it's rare and only at night. We're about 7 miles from the ocean. This area is on the east side of our house, and can be partially in the shade of the house in the afternoon. The CIDP is planted about 5 to 6 feet below the pool deck (the walkway starts at deck level, then drops down about 6 feet). CIDP's get ginormous out here, so obviously this is NOT a good spot for this palm. We're going to try to replant it out in our front yard, where it will have room to get to its full potential - and any suggestions in replanting this are also appreciated! The requirements for this spot are:

1. Nice canopy to provide a little shade on the pool deck

2. No dropping fruit

3. No eye-seeking spikes or spiky/pokey fronds

4. Small trunk/trunks

5. Not a water hog (but I can regulate the water, and provide moderate watering if necessary)

6. Max height around 20 feet or thereabouts, so the canopy is umbrella-like for the pool deck

The guys at Junglemusic.net suggested a Kentia, a Fishtail species, a Majesty and a few more that I've got written down somewhere. I'm thinking maybe two palms with a Ensete ventricosum 'Maurellii' (Red Banana) in between. I'm going to add some nice understory plants in the planter we're going to have built to better contain the palm and its plants as well, so I'll probably add some dwarf birds, bromeliads, and if I can squeeze it in, some philodenron variety. So, any suggestions for a couple of nice palms for me? Appreciate the really awesome expertise on this forum, I've been reading lots of the posts, especially in the newbie area. Even though I'm a Master Gardener, I'm not that palm-savvy. You guys are incredible, and Junglemusic rocks.

Patty S.

[quaman58]

Hi Patty,

I've got a pool also, & run through this thought process a lot. Cleasn looking, relatively thin trunked & not horribly slow. For me, some of the Archontophoenix (the genus that king palms belong to) fit the bill nicely. A. maxima is a nice one & can be purchased in a larger size from JM. Kentias (Howea forsteriana) are great, but slower. A larger Dysis St. lucei would be awesome. They're a bit slow when they're small, so buying the biggest one you can would be money well spent. I'm sure others will chime in; welcome to the forum!

Bret

[quaman58]

Oh, oh, oh! Dypsis leptichielos. Also readily available in larger sizes..

[John in Andalucia]

Welcome Patty! Ditto the Dypsis leptocheilos. Bags of tropical character at every size!

[Rafael]

This was my zone 9b choice: an adult Livistona chinensis.

But you are surely alble to choose a roystonia regia or an archontophoenix.

Edited April 21, 2010 by rafael

[Patty S.]

Bret & John,

Ah, Teddy Bear Palm! That was the other suggestion from Junglemusic.net, and definitely has the look I'm after. I think that would look very nice with a Red Banana in between. Pretty fast grower, impressive canopy, interesting and slim trunk, no fruit drop. And, they don't get overly tall, either. Great suggestions, thanks :-)

Oh, oh, oh! Dypsis leptichielos. Also readily available in larger sizes..

Patty S.

[LJG]

Dypsis leptocheilos is nice, but to make it look good you must water a lot and fertilize a lot I have found. Why only one palm in that area? Maybe two Leptocheilos flanking a Kentia?

[MattyB]

Hi Patty,

Well, it's hard to beat the beauty of a Kentia (Howea forsteriana).

They're readily available in all sizes, grow at a moderate pace, have thin trunks, are adaptable to planter boxes due to small root systems, and take a long time before they get too tall. All palms will have flowers and fruit but the advantage of this species is that the fruit stays on the flower spike for several years before dropping off, so you have plenty of time to snip the whole bunch off. You'll want to start with a sun grown palm when growing this species inland in the sun.

Dypsis plumosa is a great option for a thin trunked palm, medium height, that will always look good no matter how hot or cold it gets in Vista.

Dypsis decaryi, the triangle palm is a kick a$$ palm for inland SoCal. Very water-wise, not too tall.

Coccothrinax sp. are great water-wise palms too. They love inland sun, are thin trunked and slow growing so they won't get too tall.

Ravenea glauca. Always look good no matter what you throw at them. Won't get too tall.

Hopefully that'll get you started searching.

The problem I forsee is that because the planter is lower than the deck of the pool, you're not going to benefit from any shade that the palm makes for many years unless you start with a very large specimine of a slow growing or "not too tall" overall palm. Planting a faster growing, taller overall palm like something in the Archontophoenix genus or Livistona genus will get you shade quicker.

[Xenon]

I vote for:

Beccariophoenix madasgariensis

Archontophoenix purpurea

Ravenea glacua

Bismarkia nobillis(Silver Form)

Phoenix rupicola

Jonathan

Edited April 21, 2010 by Xenon

[Just1MorePalm]

Hi Patty....Welcome...

You are going to find that that all palms fruit...Some just more than others...and most are pretty useless for shade unless you get a monster tree or plant a bunch in 3-4 plant groupings...

for Canopy size relative to trunk...The Kentia is a good choice, especially in a 3-4 plant grouping...although they can drop a lot of seeds and grow higher than 20 feet...But,they are common and available in nice sizes for instant gratification...

King palms are the other obvious choice...A. Cunn. is the most common...grow the fastest and are the easiest to find in sizes you need... but they look the rattiest in the wind and sun of all the Kings... A.purperea has a smaller canopy, similar size trunk, shorter stature, holds up well to wind and with time, sun too...a 3-4 plant grouping would also be necessary for fullness...and is also avail in nice sizes...

Foxtails are a good choice...for all the same reasons above...but you still need 3-4 group...this would be a great choice...

Foxy ladies are another good choice, although very pricey at a large size...and get much larger that 20 feet...

I like the Dypsis leptocheilos...but looking at the picture of your yard I think it may be to exposed to sun and wind for the teddy bear to look nice...hopefully not...

Have fun with your new plantings and take your time, there are a lot of palms available to you now and for your application...Check these links for more info...

http://www.junglemusic.net/PalmBuyersGuide/

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Good Luck...Happy Growing!...

Edited April 21, 2010 by Just1MorePalm

[Patty S.]

MattyB and Len,

Wow, we've got a LOT of palm folks in N. SD County, CA, USA on this forum, which selfishly, is very nice for me :-) Len - yes, I want two palms on either side of a Red Banana (an Ensete ventricosum 'Maurellii'). Just trying to get something with some leaf variety and a wee bit of color. The only reason I hesitated with a Kentia is they are pricey, since yes, I need to get two pretty big specimens in order to replace the canopy we're losing when we pull out the CIDP. And, talking about the CIDP, any special words of wisdom with digging this up and replanting it? I don't want to lose it, it is in very robust health. I think the thing is only about 3 or 4 years old, and it's getting pretty dang big already. And, on a completely off topic issue - can't get my really cool pic to show up on my posts. Shows up in my Profile, it's the right size and pixels, it's a .jpeg, but won't show up when I post. Any newbie suggestions on that?? I'm really pretty computer savvy, just not sure what's up with that. It's a cool pic of a Beaucarnea Recurvata.

Patty S.

Hi Patty,

Well, it's hard to beat the beauty of a Kentia (Howea forsteriana).

They're readily available in all sizes, grow at a moderate pace, have thin trunks, are adaptable to planter boxes due to small root systems, and take a long time before they get too tall. All palms will have flowers and fruit but the advantage of this species is that the fruit stays on the flower spike for several years before dropping off, so you have plenty of time to snip the whole bunch off. You'll want to start with a sun grown palm when growing this species inland in the sun.

Dypsis plumosa is a great option for a thin trunked palm, medium height, that will always look good no matter how hot or cold it gets in Vista.

Dypsis decaryi, the triangle palm is a kick a$$ palm for inland SoCal. Very water-wise, not too tall.

Coccothrinax sp. are great water-wise palms too. They love inland sun, are thin trunked and slow growing so they won't get too tall.

Ravenea glauca. Always look good no matter what you throw at them. Won't get too tall.

Hopefully that'll get you started searching.

The problem I forsee is that because the planter is lower than the deck of the pool, you're not going to benefit from any shade that the palm makes for many years unless you start with a very large specimine of a slow growing or "not too tall" overall palm. Planting a faster growing, taller overall palm like something in the Archontophoenix genus or Livistona genus will get you shade quicker.

[zack10024]

This was my zone 9b choice: an adult Livistona chinensis.

But you are surely alble to choose a roystonia regia or an archontophoenix.

Nice l chinensis! im growing one im my room since im in 5b LOL

[Just1MorePalm]

Patty...

Remember the Red Bannana is a short term plant...In your area it will flower in 2-3 years and die...They are nice and grow fast and look very tropical...You just have to replace them every 2-3 years...Save that $$$ and put it towards a larger specimen tree...

Just my .02...

[doubravsky]

I really like the idea of a large-ish Kentia, and then if you flanked it with a nice 15 gallon Dypsis Baronii or Dypsis Onilahensis on each side, that would look quite tropical, and would be more long term than the Ensete and wouldn't get ratty looking through the winter.

[Patty S.]

Muito obrigada, Rafael. I will check into your suggestions. And, you have a lovely pool. What a nice automatic pool cover, too! Mine has the old fashioned manual kind. I.e., bubble cover that I have to drag across and cover.

Patty S.

This was my zone 9b choice: an adult Livistona chinensis.

But you are surely alble to choose a roystonia regia or an archontophoenix.

[Patty S.]

Thanks, Dave and Just1MorePalm. I just love those Red Bananas, but I didn't realize they were so short-lived. I'll check out the other palm suggestions. And we can get cold enough - almost 10 degrees difference between Carlsbad at the coast and 7 miles inland where we are - that it could get pretty ugly. Bummer. Love those big fat leaves. And the red. I really wanted the red.

Patty S.

I really like the idea of a large-ish Kentia, and then if you flanked it with a nice 15 gallon Dypsis Baronii or Dypsis Onilahensis on each side, that would look quite tropical, and would be more long term than the Ensete and wouldn't get ratty looking through the winter.

[Patrick]

You're lucky you can grow the Dypsis- it will definitely be a looker.

One thing I was thinking of that satisfies the "no spike" prerequisite is a Sabal mauritiiformis. It also would have big, tropical fan shaped leaves that would make a nice canopy eventually. It's a slow grower, and I'm not sure if you're going to find anything larger (with trunk) down there. That could potentially be a plant for your lower tier area. Just a thought. Good luck in your venture!

[Patty S.]

Thanks, Xenon. Lots of great suggestions. I'm keeping an Excel spread sheet with names, comments, attributes and pics. I also have about an 1/8 of an acre on the south side of our lot that is the low spot, and where all our water drains. We have quite a few palms already planted and doing well down there, and next year we plan on finishing off that area with better walkways, more hardscape, and some sort of improvement on the "jungle" theme that is already going on down there. I have a nice understory going on that would be great for palms that need a bit more shade, or complete shade. Plus nice area for ferns as well. So, I'm keepin' a list for down there for palms that don't make it in the CIDP spot that I can add to the lower part of our yard and will make a really nice statement as folks walk through.

Patty S.

I vote for:

Beccariophoenix madasgariensis

Archontophoenix purpurea

Ravenea glacua

Bismarkia nobillis(Silver Form)

Phoenix rupicola

Jonathan

[MattyB]

Patty,

Dig up the Canary Island Date Palm with a root ball that is at least about 12" out from the trunk and to about 24" deep. At this size you'll need several people to move it if not a cherry picker or bobcat. Estimate about 400 pounds like a piano with no handles. They are tough so it should recover fine. Prune heavily and wrap the entire leaf boot area with a comforter or packing blanket so you don't get stabbed.

Someone mentioned Bismarkia also. Great palm for inland SoCal. Tolerates dry soil and dry air and has showy huge silver fronds.

Dypsis onilahensis is probably one of the best clumping palms for us too. Tolerates drying out, heat, sun, and looks as tropical as you can get.

[DoomsDave]

Patty!

Welcome aboard, dear!

You have come to the right place.

Hmm. Respectfully, your parameters might be a bit unrealistic, and here's why:

The max height is too short for nice, vigorous plants, which is what you will need for your spot. That's full sun, plenty of wind, not a sheltered area.

Any happy palm will eventually fruit, but, you can deal with that, usually by chopping off the fruits when they're well along, but not yet mature.

Anyway, you have a long list of criteria, and I'll try to rev up my brain and go through them methodically:

1. Nice canopy to provide a little shade on the pool deck

HOW BIG DOES THAT CANOPY NEED TO BE? A CIDP GETS WIDE, PROBABLY ABOUT AS WIDE AS PALMS GET, EXCEPT MAYBE FOR CARYOTA GIGAS.

2. No dropping fruit

ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE IN PRACTICE FOR A VIGOROUS HAPPY PALM (BUNNIES? CELIBATE? LOLOLOL!) BUT EASY TO MANAGE (MUCH EASIER THAN BUNNIES)

3. No eye-seeking spikes or spiky/pokey fronds

NO PROBLEM, UNLESS YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH AN ACROCOMIA

4. Small trunk/trunks

HOW SMALL? ALMOST ANY PALM IS SMALLER ACROSS THE TRUNK THAN A CIDP.

5. Not a water hog (but I can regulate the water, and provide moderate watering if necessary)

LIMITS CHOICES SOME, BUT MANAGEABLE

6. Max height around 20 feet or thereabouts, so the canopy is umbrella-like for the pool deck

THIS MIGHT BE TOUGH, IN PRACTICE, EVENTUALLY. NICE, HAPPY PALMS THAT WILL TAKE THE SUN AND WIND, AND PROVIDE A CANOPY BEFORE THE MIDDLE OF THE CENTURY WILL ALSO TEND TO GET BIGGER, EVENTUALLY A LOT BIGGER, THAN TWENTY FEET

Hmm.

Okay, hate to disagree with my esteemed colleagues. But, here goes (and guys, we can always agree to disagree . . . . )

Teddy bears are lovely -- I've got about 6 in the ground -- but they're thirsty and definitely on the slow side. If you want one, I'd get it anyway, and have something faster nearby. NOTHING tops them for looks when they're looking good. Like a King on his coronation, just GORGEOUS. And, kids love that fuzz . . . .

Howeas are wonderful at their best, but they tend to get KFC'd in the hot sun, plenty of water, well, maybe, but, well, for that spot, unless you were at the beach, I don't agree.

In my honest opinion, I'd go with one of the rarer Archontophoenix, like tuckeri, alexandrae. They're faster than the decline of civilization (I'm joking! about civilization!) with a marvelous, robust presence, but not huge. Tuckeri are lighter-green, with silver reverses on the leaves; alexandrae are a bit darker. Both wonderful, I have both, am in love with both . . .

Both will give you nice spreading canopy.

No spines. (No one ever bumps into a spineless palm! )

Both like a lot of water, but a little water on one or two palms might not be too bad.

Speed wise, seriously, I have one (A. tuckeri) that has about 7 feet of trunk from a sad looking baby planted in the ground about five years ago. Setting seeds, right now. 20 feet of overall height, but will get much taller with time.

Other palms could also work. Foxy Lady (a hybrid) will grow fast, don't know about water, probably no seed, don't know about the canopy, but nice.

Wodetyia will also work, but, I've found them tempermental, but, better with larger ones.

Hmm. Maybe Ptychosperma elegans? That is much smaller, tougher than you think, might need a clump to get the canopy, plenty of water, but very nice.

Syagrus X Butea "mules"; no seeds, or very few, tough as nails, almost as fast the decline in civ, not thirsty, definitely nice crowns, full sun, high heat, verbal and mental abuse . .. . the only problem is that the trunks can be thick, like 12 - 18" but not massive like a CIPD.

I'll think of more . . . .

Hope this helps.

dave

P.S. show us the rest of your garden! We're hopeless garden voyeurs . . ..

[DoomsDave]

Red bananas spread -- rhymes with red, inbred, dread . . . .

On the other hand, nothing tops them for that lush tropical look, except maybe Royal palms. And if they get too fat, you can always hack away to one stem, and start all over again, kaboom, to regrow gloriously, like nothing ever happened. . . .

[Patty S.]

Thanks, Dave, for sure I have come to the right place without a doubt. Okay, let me see if I can make it easier:

20 feet is a guess. Actually, the palms can be taller, since they're going in a planter that will be about 6 feet below the pool deck level. I plan on getting mature specimens that are already pretty tall so we don't lose out on the canopy, shade, and backdrop. We budgeted for this with our landscaping "facelift" we're doing right now.

Canopy requirements would be about the same coverage as what we currently have with the CIDP if possible. The CIDP gives us a very pretty backdrop and some shade right now, but you sure can back into one of those fronds with your bathing suit on!

Fruit drop - as long as it will stay put on a stalk for a bit. Long enough for me to figure out I need to cut it off without a bunch of fruit dropping into the pool, first :-)

Trunks need to stay reasonably small since the planter the palms are going into will not be that wide. I would say 12" max in diameter. Otherwise, I can only plant one palm. I'd rather be able to plant a couple of specimens or a clumping variety. Or, add some other tropical plant that would be a nice compliment to palms. Bananas have been eliminated, so maybe a big philodendron???

This spot actually gets a fair amount of shelter. It's on the east side of our lot, protected by our 2-story (very tall 2-story) house. So, not so much wind, and it will get afternoon shade from the house, too.

And, here are a few pics of the yard around the pool area and tropical side of the house. Enjoy!

Patty S.

Patty!

Welcome aboard, dear!

You have come to the right place.

Hmm. Respectfully, your parameters might be a bit unrealistic, and here's why:

The max height is too short for nice, vigorous plants, which is what you will need for your spot. That's full sun, plenty of wind, not a sheltered area.

Any happy palm will eventually fruit, but, you can deal with that, usually by chopping off the fruits when they're well along, but not yet mature.

Anyway, you have a long list of criteria, and I'll try to rev up my brain and go through them methodically:

1. Nice canopy to provide a little shade on the pool deck

HOW BIG DOES THAT CANOPY NEED TO BE? A CIDP GETS WIDE, PROBABLY ABOUT AS WIDE AS PALMS GET, EXCEPT MAYBE FOR CARYOTA GIGAS.

2. No dropping fruit

ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE IN PRACTICE FOR A VIGOROUS HAPPY PALM (BUNNIES? CELIBATE? LOLOLOL!) BUT EASY TO MANAGE (MUCH EASIER THAN BUNNIES)

3. No eye-seeking spikes or spiky/pokey fronds

NO PROBLEM, UNLESS YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH AN ACROCOMIA

4. Small trunk/trunks

HOW SMALL? ALMOST ANY PALM IS SMALLER ACROSS THE TRUNK THAN A CIDP.

5. Not a water hog (but I can regulate the water, and provide moderate watering if necessary)

LIMITS CHOICES SOME, BUT MANAGEABLE

6. Max height around 20 feet or thereabouts, so the canopy is umbrella-like for the pool deck

THIS MIGHT BE TOUGH, IN PRACTICE, EVENTUALLY. NICE, HAPPY PALMS THAT WILL TAKE THE SUN AND WIND, AND PROVIDE A CANOPY BEFORE THE MIDDLE OF THE CENTURY WILL ALSO TEND TO GET BIGGER, EVENTUALLY A LOT BIGGER, THAN TWENTY FEET

Hmm.

Okay, hate to disagree with my esteemed colleagues. But, here goes (and guys, we can always agree to disagree . . . . )

Teddy bears are lovely -- I've got about 6 in the ground -- but they're thirsty and definitely on the slow side. If you want one, I'd get it anyway, and have something faster nearby. NOTHING tops them for looks when they're looking good. Like a King on his coronation, just GORGEOUS. And, kids love that fuzz . . . .

Howeas are wonderful at their best, but they tend to get KFC'd in the hot sun, plenty of water, well, maybe, but, well, for that spot, unless you were at the beach, I don't agree.

In my honest opinion, I'd go with one of the rarer Archontophoenix, like tuckeri, alexandrae. They're faster than the decline of civilization (I'm joking! about civilization!) with a marvelous, robust presence, but not huge. Tuckeri are lighter-green, with silver reverses on the leaves; alexandrae are a bit darker. Both wonderful, I have both, am in love with both . . .

Both will give you nice spreading canopy.

No spines. (No one ever bumps into a spineless palm! )

Both like a lot of water, but a little water on one or two palms might not be too bad.

Speed wise, seriously, I have one (A. tuckeri) that has about 7 feet of trunk from a sad looking baby planted in the ground about five years ago. Setting seeds, right now. 20 feet of overall height, but will get much taller with time.

Other palms could also work. Foxy Lady (a hybrid) will grow fast, don't know about water, probably no seed, don't know about the canopy, but nice.

Wodetyia will also work, but, I've found them tempermental, but, better with larger ones.

Hmm. Maybe Ptychosperma elegans? That is much smaller, tougher than you think, might need a clump to get the canopy, plenty of water, but very nice.

Syagrus X Butea "mules"; no seeds, or very few, tough as nails, almost as fast the decline in civ, not thirsty, definitely nice crowns, full sun, high heat, verbal and mental abuse . .. . the only problem is that the trunks can be thick, like 12 - 18" but not massive like a CIPD.

I'll think of more . . . .

Hope this helps.

dave

P.S. show us the rest of your garden! We're hopeless garden voyeurs . . ..

[BS Man about Palms]

Patty!!

I remember speaking to you at Jungle Music. (At my real job, I'm now on the late shift.. so thus my late reply) Anyway, like you've seen, great info here. I spoke to several folks from the tour on Sat and were you the folks I cautioned about seeking only large/boxed specimens only to have a big 15 or 20 gal plant pass it in 3-5 years time?

Anyway, the "real sale" at JM's is this Sat and Sun. Hope to see you there again.

And Welcome to Palmtalk!!

Bill

PS- I must add, your place looks killer!!

[Jason Baker Portugal]

Okay, even though they are slow it looks like Beccariophoenix alfredii matches what you are asking for: thinner trunk, not a water hog, wide canopy spread, good looking (coconut look-alike). See if you can get a larger one. Other than that I agree on the archontos which are fast growing. Have fun choosing. Jason

[Patty S.]

Hi Bill,

Loved Junglemusic, it was a good thing I didn't have more time to puruse your place, it could have cost me, lol! Had my 23 yo daughter with me and she was getting antsy to get back home. Don't think it was us gave the advice to about going with smaller specimens, but sure appreciate the advice, as I was planning on getting larger specimens so we don't lose the canopy shade. That will save me a bucket of money, appreciate it! And thanks for the kind words about our place. Excited to get it spiffed up. Next year we'll tackle the lower side, and I plan on putting lots more palms, cycads, ferns, bromeliads, philodendrons, etc. down there. There are already lots of lovely plant material so we're keeping that going, but just need to get things kind of spiffed up. The previous owners put their heart and sole into this place, and we feel very privleged to be able to carry on their efforts. I'm hoping we can get it in shape enough to be put on the SD Hort Society tour either next year or the year after.

Patty S.

Patty!!

I remember speaking to you at Jungle Music. (At my real job, I'm now on the late shift.. so thus my late reply) Anyway, like you've seen, great info here. I spoke to several folks from the tour on Sat and were you the folks I cautioned about seeking only large/boxed specimens only to have a big 15 or 20 gal plant pass it in 3-5 years time?

Anyway, the "real sale" at JM's is this Sat and Sun. Hope to see you there again.

And Welcome to Palmtalk!!

Bill

PS- I must add, your place looks killer!!

[MattyB]

Great yard Patty, thanks for sharing the pics.

Add Kentiopsis oliviformis to the list. Takes full inland sun and doesn't get ratty fronds from the wind like Archontophoenix do.

[Patty S.]

Thanks, Matt. Really like this palm. Has nice big fronds that look in form more like the CIDP. If I pick this palm, I'd like to find something to go with that is very different. Like a Fishtail or maybe a big Bird. So I have some variety. Just a little concerned about the big Birds, as they can get invasive over the years and are tough to get rid of. Plus, their trunks can get pretty big.

Patty S.

Great yard Patty, thanks for sharing the pics.

Add Kentiopsis oliviformis to the list. Takes full inland sun and doesn't get ratty fronds from the wind like Archontophoenix do.

[MattyB]

Different is good. The Kentiopsis has a regular pinnate (feather shaped) leaf, so an accompanying palm that would look good would either be a palmate (fan leaved) or irregular pinnate like the plumose frons of a Syagrus or Woodyetia.

ohhh even better yet, get a clumping form of Dypsis madagascarensis! I love this palm, see pic below. I think D. mahajanga is the clumping form.

[Afripalm]

Hi Patty

Love this thread and everyone's contributions - gives me food for thought on my own plans. Your garden is looking awesome and good to see that the common Queens can look so beautifil in the right setting and with the right care. Wodyetia would be my personal choice - slim trunk, lowish water requirement and moderate speed for an enduring canopy - winner!

Cheers Jeff

[Peter Pacific]

Queens are great, Patty, but they do produce a lot of fruit. The Wodyetias are also beautiful palms. Keeping in mind that the pool deck is six feet above the planting area will make you purchase mature palms. The Archontophoenix palms are wonderful but perhaps taller than your "20 foot maximum" requirement. How about a Copernicia berteroana? They have beautiful fan leaves, grows to around 30 feet, not much water, the trunks aren't too thick. Good Luck and remember to use this same post when the project is finished wo we can all see what you chose! Peter

[Gtlevine]

Foxy Lady without a doubt, it would look great there. Since your a beginner, it is a Foxtail and Veitcha hybrid palm, very tropical and very hardy. You can see them at a nursery called Rancho Soledad in Rancho Sante Fe. Kentia palm as mentioned is also good choice as is a King Palm.

Gary

[Walter John]

Different is good. The Kentiopsis has a regular pinnate (feather shaped) leaf, so an accompanying palm that would look good would either be a palmate (fan leaved) or irregular pinnate like the plumose frons of a Syagrus or Woodyetia.

ohhh even better yet, get a clumping form of Dypsis madagascarensis! I love this palm, see pic below. I think D. mahajanga is the clumping form.

See if you can find the hybrid getting around for this guy, it would be sensational for the job. I think it's Dypsis madagascarensis crossed with Dypsis cabadae, Jungle might have them under some kooky name .

[MattyB]

Wal, yer crazy!

Gary, great suggestion with the Foxylady palm. Those huge ones at Rancho Soledad would be just the size she needs too.

[Walter John]

Different is good. The Kentiopsis has a regular pinnate (feather shaped) leaf, so an accompanying palm that would look good would either be a palmate (fan leaved) or irregular pinnate like the plumose frons of a Syagrus or Woodyetia.

ohhh even better yet, get a clumping form of Dypsis madagascarensis! I love this palm, see pic below. I think D. mahajanga is the clumping form.

See if you can find the hybrid getting around for this guy, it would be sensational for the job. I think it's Dypsis madagascarensis crossed with Dypsis cabadae, Jungle might have them under some kooky name .

And here's what they look like. Crazy hey, I'll show you crazy

I can still get these here at good prices.This one is at a Rocky private garden.

Mike for perspective.

Here's the one I had growing at my old place, in between the Chamby and Royal.

[Patty S.]

Thanks, Gary. I'll see if I can get out there to take a peek this weekend. I really like the Foxtail, so maybe Foxy Lady will be a nice cross. Thinking about putting a Bismark in, then something like this on either side with some stuff in the understory that would be appealing at eye level as you walk down the path. Lots of great choices, now!! My gosh, I'm going to have a hard time deciding!

Patty S.

Foxy Lady without a doubt, it would look great there. Since your a beginner, it is a Foxtail and Veitcha hybrid palm, very tropical and very hardy. You can see them at a nursery called Rancho Soledad in Rancho Sante Fe. Kentia palm as mentioned is also good choice as is a King Palm.

Gary

[BS Man about Palms]

Patty, now you see why I tell people to skip the plain stuff. There are a lot of options!!

[LJG]

Gary, Patty said she is on a budget. I doubt a $1200 palm is on her list

Patty, that is what that plant will cost at Rancho Soledad.

Wal, I have that palm. Handles full sun for me and grows fast. Mine is sinle and is starting to look like a robust Cabadae.

[Patty S.]

Okay, ya all wanted me to post the "after" photos, so here are a few of the palm I ended up going with. Turns out our landscape design company had some sort of palm connection, and was able to nab me a very nice 3-trunk Kentia in a 24" box at a very attractive price. It was just the right height, and the two smaller trunks will continue to provide a lower canopy as the taller trunk grows. I'm pretty darned happy with it. So, you can do a "before" and "after" take. I think the canopy cover is just as nice as what we had with the CIDP, which has a new home down in our "jungle". I forgot to snap some pics of the two Chamaedorea seifrizii and two Rhapsis excelsa I planted behind our new outdoor kitchen/barbeque island we had put in. So, in about 2 or 3 years, it will really look awesomely tropical. I'll post more pics of the barbeque island with the palms behind tomorrow. Thanks everyone. I have about a gazillion more palms I want to buy, now thanks to all of you, lol! We have a very large area down on the lower part of our yard that I'm going to start on next (the "jungle"), and that's were all the palms and cycads will be going in, along with all the lovely species I already have down there (need to ID them all, so that's my next big project.)

Patty S.

I just discovered this wonderful forum and hope all the experts can chime in with some good suggestions on a replacement palm for a Canary Island Date palm that needs to be rehomed. Currently the CIDP is growing against a retaining wall, in a walkway that runs behind and below our swimming pool. I had a chance to meet the guys at Junglemusic.net last weekend, at the Encinitas Garden Tour. Wowie wow. That's a might dangerous nursery to spend any time at, and with credit cards in your pocket, lol!! I got a few suggestions, but thought I'd open this up to a bunch of great experts on this forum. I've attached some pics. We live in Vista, CA, zone 10a, Sunset 23, in the hills. Can get some freezing temps, but it's rare and only at night. We're about 7 miles from the ocean. This area is on the east side of our house, and can be partially in the shade of the house in the afternoon. The CIDP is planted about 5 to 6 feet below the pool deck (the walkway starts at deck level, then drops down about 6 feet). CIDP's get ginormous out here, so obviously this is NOT a good spot for this palm. We're going to try to replant it out in our front yard, where it will have room to get to its full potential - and any suggestions in replanting this are also appreciated! The requirements for this spot are:

1. Nice canopy to provide a little shade on the pool deck

2. No dropping fruit

3. No eye-seeking spikes or spiky/pokey fronds

4. Small trunk/trunks

5. Not a water hog (but I can regulate the water, and provide moderate watering if necessary)

6. Max height around 20 feet or thereabouts, so the canopy is umbrella-like for the pool deck

The guys at Junglemusic.net suggested a Kentia, a Fishtail species, a Majesty and a few more that I've got written down somewhere. I'm thinking maybe two palms with a Ensete ventricosum 'Maurellii' (Red Banana) in between. I'm going to add some nice understory plants in the planter we're going to have built to better contain the palm and its plants as well, so I'll probably add some dwarf birds, bromeliads, and if I can squeeze it in, some philodenron variety. So, any suggestions for a couple of nice palms for me? Appreciate the really awesome expertise on this forum, I've been reading lots of the posts, especially in the newbie area. Even though I'm a Master Gardener, I'm not that palm-savvy. You guys are incredible, and Junglemusic rocks.

Patty S.

[Mike in LW Florida]

Great pics... I really like the Frog...

[Wanderanwills]

Great Garden Patty, looks like a great collection of plants.

Good choice in palm.

Regards

Stephen