Mule palm trunks green verses brown

[Palm crazy]

Hi all, was wondering, Has anyone notice a difference in appearance with mule trunks from different FL sources?

I have two in the ground and both from different growers, one in FL and the other in WA state, both seeds came from FL but they look somewhat different in the trunks. One has very green trunk and the other more brown. Why is that? They are both still very young only a few years old.

Thanks I live in WA state.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Palm crazy

[_Keith]

  On 4/12/2010 at 4:07 PM, Palm crazy said:

Hi all, was wondering, Has anyone notice a difference in appearance with mule trunks from different FL sources?

I have two in the ground and both from different growers, one in FL and the other in WA state, both seeds came from FL but they look somewhat different in the trunks. One has very green trunk and the other more brown. Why is that? They are both still very young only a few years old.

Thanks I live in WA state.

I have one green trunk Mule. I was told it was crossed with a B. yatay instead of with B. capitata.

[freakypalmguy]

I have both brown(almost black) and green Butyagrus. The green is B. paraguayensis X S. r.

[Collectorpalms]

I think that Butia is so variable that has a lot to do with the different trunk color. I grow almost all forms and different species of Butia from somewhat reputable seed sellers, and I have blue, green, green with blue striations, silvery, black, red etc.. trunks. From my understanding most of the hybrid growers in Florida do not really know the true identity of the parents since they did not grow them from seed, I know I have asked! I believe that a lot of people are on the bandwagon now trying to cross with more known parentage to get the hardiest mules.

Ryan Fuller

CollectorPalms

[Palm crazy]

I just transplanted this one yesterday from the front. It rained last night so it's a little dirty. Different hybrid sounds Very cool! Here's a few pics.

Thanks for all the help....Roger.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Palm crazy

[Nigel]

We imported a small container load all made from the same mother plant, 50% green trunk, 50% purple trunk.

[Mark Heath]

  On 4/12/2010 at 5:34 PM, Collectorpalms said:

I think that Butia is so variable that has a lot to do with the different trunk color. I grow almost all forms and different species of Butia from somewhat reputable seed sellers, and I have blue, green, green with blue striations, silvery, black, red etc.. trunks. From my understanding most of the hybrid growers in Florida do not really know the true identity of the parents since they did not grow them from seed, I know I have asked! I believe that a lot of people are on the bandwagon now trying to cross with more known parentage to get the hardiest mules.

Ryan Fuller

CollectorPalms

I cannot speak for other hybridizers here in Florida but i know 100% identity of both parents.

I have been using B.Capitata for my parent palm in regards to producing XButiagrus. I know the parentage of both

for sure.

I would like to try different parents but i have to wait for my silver Queen to flower and my B.Yatay to mature as well.

Oh, i have green and brown trunks w/ the same parents.

[Palm crazy]

The one in the photos came from Merrill (5-7) years ago.

Been in the ground for 3 years, it's one of my favorites with the green and orange on the leaf base.

The little one is the background by the clay bricks is another one from a different grower here in WA.

Planted late summer last year. I'm hoping it's a cross with B.Yatay.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Palm crazy

[Collectorpalms]

HI Mark, I would love to see pictures of your hybridizers. Will you post pictures of the Parents of your hybridizers here, or email me. I am interested in plants. Have the parents or offspring experienced any cold weather like here in Texas to weed out the weaklings? Yes, in the same seed batch of Butia I can see variation so again I am sure that is possible with the offspring, they are variable... although the green leaf bases I think comes from those that hold onto their leaf base color a longer time as opposed to turning brown quickly after pruning the fronds. I was refering to more of a color other than green or brown.

Thanks,

Ryan

Ryan@collectorpalms.com

Edited April 12, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[Mark Heath]

Hello Ryan,

I will post pics of both parents for you soon, i am very busy and tired at the moment. I have Mules that have green bases and i have Mules that have dried brown bases. I have thousands to choose from. I will say that i plan on starting a thread about the differences between each XButiagrus. Most look the same but you will find some funky ones when you have many to choose from.

I have some 3 gallon ones that were burned w/ the lows we recieved here in the outskirts of Orlando at 22f.

The older hardened off fronds were not damaged but the new emerging spear was fried. I feel that you would need at least a 45 gallon specimen to take what your annual low temps dish out.

I live in a low-lying area and in the boonies so i get hammered when we get a bad winter like the last one.

So yes, i have tried and true cold hardy smaller ones! I plan to give my sister a 10 gallon Mule when i visit her in Plano Texas this summer.

[Collectorpalms]

FYI, Off all the Butia I have, only Butia Yatay was consistantly damaged this winter. I think it has to do with wet and consistantly cool combination. Nearly across the board they had spear pull. The more silver the plant, the less they like moisture. Since Eriospatha are the greenest and fastest ( for me) , I would think that would be a good combination with the hardiest Syagrus Roman variants. Also, Syagrus Litoralis ( from Jeff marcus few years back), was much more leaf hardy to cold than Box store Queens, and continued to grow during the Seattle like Texan 2010 winter. I took a bunch of pictures of different Butia, and hybrids today, but again its hard to post them on here, too time comsuming, easier to email.

Ryan

Edited April 12, 2010 by Collectorpalms

[Tampa Scott]

  On 4/12/2010 at 7:17 PM, Nigel said:

We imported a small container load all made from the same mother plant, 50% green trunk, 50% purple trunk.

As a back yard grower of these Hybrids I also see 50% green and 50% purple trunks.

[ErikSJI]

  On 4/12/2010 at 4:07 PM, Palm crazy said:

Hi all, was wondering, Has anyone notice a difference in appearance with mule trunks from different FL sources?

I have two in the ground and both from different growers, one in FL and the other in WA state, both seeds came from FL but they look somewhat different in the trunks. One has very green trunk and the other more brown. Why is that? They are both still very young only a few years old.

Thanks I live in WA state.

Palm crazy? This must be Roger. I think I recognize that backyard.

Our Mule palms are all Butia C. x Syagrus R.

However they are from 4 different sets of parents that are located at the nursery. We also get several colors but I find most of them turn brown after they have aged for awhile.

Here are some photos of the Parent palms that we have.

Erik

[GreenIslandPalms]

Of the hundreds of xButiagrus I have, I also see a pretty random mix of colored leaf bases. From almost black, to purples, reds, greens, and several mixed colors as seen in the attached photos. All of the pictured ones came from the same parents, which helps to show the tremendous variation. In my experience, I havnt seen a difference in cold hardiness, speed of growth, trunk width or leaf habit(strict or drooping) with regards to the different colored leaf bases.

[GreenIslandPalms]

One interesting thing I have noticed, is that all of the Dwarf xButiagrus (Butia paraguayensis x Syagrus romanzoffiana) I grow all have very green leaf bases. Since this is a fairly new hybrid variety, I dont know if this something it may grow out of as I only have it as large as a 15 gal size. Maybe other growers with some larger ones may be able to chime in if the leaf base changes color as it matures.

[PalmGuyWC]

Mike,

Those N. Calif. grown Xbutyagrus sure look robust and healthy. I'm very curious to see what the Butia paraguayensis X S. romanzoffiana will grow into, if they will look any different from the regular mule. I suspect yours are some of the largest around.

Dick

[Palm crazy]

Hey Eric, your on here too,

I still have three of yours in the ground that look great, (protected this winter).

Big one bit the dust. I had to many to start with anyways. LOL!

roger.

[ErikSJI]

  On 4/14/2010 at 7:38 PM, Palm crazy said:

Hey Eric, your on here too,

I still have three of yours in the ground that look great, (protected this winter).

Big one bit the dust. I had to many to start with anyways. LOL!

roger.

I will have some larger overgrown 3 gallons this summer if you want them.. We can do another trade... I read on the other forum that you had some losses this year. What was your minimum temps?

Erik

[Palm crazy]

"I will have some larger overgrown 3 gallons this summer if you want them.. We can do another trade... I read on the other forum that you had some losses this year. What was your minimum temps? Erik."

Well in December got down to 12-13F for three nights with two nights being new record lows, after that the winter was mild, low 30F in Jan. and lowest temp 28F in Feb. Every 10 years the lows can go down to the low teens, normal here is usually 18F-22F for coldest night.

So there were some palm that did not make it, but I have replacement already so thanks for the offer but I just want to take care of what I have at the moment. Thanks. I did a whole New Zealand planting this spring with the usual plant material for his area. "Mostly cordylines." And drought tolerant bromeliads.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Palm crazy

[ErikSJI]

  On 4/15/2010 at 7:56 PM, Palm crazy said:

"I will have some larger overgrown 3 gallons this summer if you want them.. We can do another trade... I read on the other forum that you had some losses this year. What was your minimum temps? Erik."

Well in December got down to 12-13F for three nights with two nights being new record lows, after that the winter was mild, low 30F in Jan. and lowest temp 28F in Feb. Every 10 years the lows can go down to the low teens, normal here is usually 18F-22F for coldest night.

So there were some palm that did not make it, but I have replacement already so thanks for the offer but I just want to take care of what I have at the moment. Thanks. I did a whole New Zealand planting this spring with the usual plant material for his area. "Mostly cordylines." And drought tolerant bromeliads.

Here on san juan island the temps were quite mild this year. I believe the lowest was around 26F.

[MAUSER]

  On 4/13/2010 at 6:50 PM, GreenIslandPalms said:

Of the hundreds of xButiagrus I have, I also see a pretty random mix of colored leaf bases. From almost black, to purples, reds, greens, and several mixed colors as seen in the attached photos. All of the pictured ones came from the same parents, which helps to show the tremendous variation. In my experience, I havnt seen a difference in cold hardiness, speed of growth, trunk width or leaf habit(strict or drooping) with regards to the different colored leaf bases.

Beautiful photos and palms. I loved it.

Edited April 27, 2010 by MAUSER