Acanthophoenix rubra - a touchy palm

[Z4Devil]

Folkz,

I swear I am on the brink of crack up ... how many Acanthophoenix did I have? Let me think over ... about 18 I guess. The last 6 arrived about 2 weeks ago, 3 A. rubra and 3 A. rousselii. 2 of the rubra have trunkend leaves, all of them are sere.

They stay not in direct sun, half-shadow I would say. Especially for this specimen I mixed up a very special soil with 20% sand, 10% powdered limestone and 20% coarse-grained Lava.

I have no idea what happened with this palm ... you may look on - after about 3 - 5 days max. the drama begins.

Well, it is not my intention to order 15 Acanthos at Thierry biweekly; it is simply too expensive and demoralizing moreover.

Anybody with special experiences for this palm? I plan to order a last time 10 A. rubras, then my game is over. One of the rubras is doing well, but one the 3 leaves is starting to change its color to green-yellow.

Only the A. rousselii "dwarfs" look very well.

Thanks in advance and love, Verena

PS: all rubras have a size of about 20 - 25 cm when Thierry ship them. The rousseliis 10 - 15 cm.

[Charles Wychgel]

2 of the rubra have trunkend leaves, all of them are sere.

Verena can you please explain; what means "sere"? and trunkend leaves?

And did you receive the palms bare-rooted?

[Z4Devil]

Hi, Charles -

oh sorry ... the typo devil has struck again.

I meant that the leaves are truncated. *bg* Sere is a poetic synonym for shrivel.

And yes, the plants have been shipped bare-rooted. A lack of warmth is to be excluded just as of light. I know that the Acanthos do not like overwatering ... and the special soil I mixed especially for this palm. I am at a loss now ...

Best regards, Verena

[Tyrone]

Verena I've found that they don't like overwatering. They need the soil surface to dry out a bit between watering. Also the limestone sounds a bit alkaline to me. I would have left the limestone out of the mix.

I wish someone could tell me how to germinate these things. I've probably had over a thousand seed over the years of all species and only have two little A rubra's for my trouble. Does the seed need to be extremely fresh??????

Best regards

Tyrone

[Z4Devil]

Hi, Tyrone (nice to see you again )-

hmmm ... for now they are not overwartered, but: from the point I have potted them in I gave a little bit more water than necessary; always thought . That could be ... I would like to quote Thierry (the seller) as follows:

The three species of Acanthophoenix are very decorative palms, but they have an excellent heart... so they are cultivated for their heart, excepted A. tripaludis (rousselii) which is extremelly rare and in my mind not cultivated for agriculture for the moment.

Yes our ground is volcanic and the medium for cultivation must be very drainant.

Natural conditions for the 3 species Acanthophoenix here in Reunion

- A. rubra : 0-150m (tropical hot) / humide - tropical rain forest / average 1500mm per year

- A. crinita : 800 m and more (quite subtropical) / highly humide - often fog / 2000mm and more

- A. tripaludis : 400-700 m (tropical) / medium dry / 500-1000mm

Especially concerning the bold marked information I assumed that the soil mix is different to the usual of the other palms. Reunion has volcanic (and therefore alkaline) soil. To compensate this I mixed the limestone and the lava together with the other ingedients.

We have talked about the germination af seeds of the Acanthos already, do you remember? As far as I know it takes up to 2 (!) years until the germination is successful. Not always, but it is normal.

I have 20 seeds waiting for germination for nearly one year but I do not give up. Further 5 I have ordered later and soaked them for 24 h in warm water with a special palmseed germinator. We will see if it makes a difference to the other seeds.

Love, Verena

[Z4Devil]

Me again. In our German palm forum a friend of me gave me the important information probably. I use the wrong palm fertilizer.

My fertilizer contains

NPK-fertilizer-solution 6+5+5 with boron, copper, ferrite, manganese, molybdenum, zinc

Zusammensetzung: 6 % N Gesamtstickstoff

2,5 % N Nitrate

2,4 % N Ammoniums nitrate

1,1 % N Carbamide nitrate

5 % P2O5

5 % K2O

0,01 % B

0,002 % Cu

0,02 % Fe

0,01 % Mn

0,001 % Mo

0,002 % Zn

An essential micronutrient is missing!!! What? Magnesium. It is needed for creation of chlorophyll. The result of insufficient Mg is that the older leaves are turning to a yellow color meanwhile the young sprouts are green.

Exactly this damage symptoms my Acanathos have. Unbelievable!

The new fertilizer (called Hakaphos soft special) I have ordered has

N+P+K (+Mg)

16+8+22(+3)

Magnesium has to add additionally, I will use epsomite.

I will keep you informed if this is the anser to this problem. I hope so, but I am quite sure.

Love, Verena

[BS Man about Palms]

Verena, I am not sure how to word this, but any time you get bare rooted palms from a tropical area and put them in your home, the stress is very great. If these are less than a month or two, I would barely fertilise if at all. You just need to get them over their shock. So I would have a VERY LIGHT mix as they will now be in a drier environment, not to mention cooler and probably something inferior to rainwater.

Think of someone that had big trauma that went to a hospital, first you keep the patient alive, then you feed real food and try to get them stronger. I would also not order in the winter, because "fresh air" days do the patient good!!

Good Luck!

[Z4Devil]

Bill, my friend - feel hughed so much.

The advise to fertilize them bareroot is very good, sounds good to me! And I will mix the soil far better than before with more perlite to make it permeably even more.

You made my day, Bill. And because of you I will order further 10 Acanthos (for 15 of Alain I am still waiting, but this are seedling of about 10-15 cm and smaller than Thierry´s) - and one of them will be named ... weeeeell? Bill.

Thanks and love, Verena

[realarch]

Good luck Verena. And Bill, you big lug.

Tim

[Z4Devil]

Hi, Tim -

all the luck they need is welcome. Thank you very much, at this moment I have ordered 10 further Acanthos. My godness, this plant is like an addiction.

By the way ... is anyone interested in my source of the Acanthos and a giant number of further rare palms? Visit my friend Thierry at

www.baobabs.com

It is one of my regular online shops now.

Best regards to all, Verena

PS: Folkz I have a phantastic idea. The ordered 10 Acanthos need names.

1. Charles

2. Tyrone

3. Bill

4. Tim

5. Meg (my wish)

6. Gileno (dto.)

7. Jeff (dto.)

8. ?

9. ?

10. ?

Possible is a nr. 11, I guess I will receive one specimen as a gift.

Anyone else who is ready for a godparenthood?

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Verena, I am not sure how to word this, but any time you get bare rooted palms from a tropical area and put them in your home, the stress is very great. If these are less than a month or two, I would barely fertilise if at all. You just need to get them over their shock. So I would have a VERY LIGHT mix as they will now be in a drier environment, not to mention cooler and probably something inferior to rainwater.

Think of someone that had big trauma that went to a hospital, first you keep the patient alive, then you feed real food and try to get them stronger. I would also not order in the winter, because "fresh air" days do the patient good!!

Good Luck!

Verna, i have to agree with Bill, and it was a very cogent reply..

...remember that plants, palms included, are autotrophs, and as such make their own food using sunlight and water and other constituents....

...imagine that they are carbohydrate bank accounts, and must write checks on that account to do anything, especially to grow.

Your palms are going to be using stored carbs to initiate root growth first, drawing on that bank account, and then top growth can occur....there is no fertilizer that can do that for them

They then must use their leaves, solar collectors in fact, to replace that debt and additionally grow....then is the time for a judicious use of fertilizer

I would advise holding back on any fertilizer for now.

BTW, you're a true pioneer when it comes to growing palms...any danged fool can grow palms where the conditions are perfect...You really push the edge of the envelope!!!

Good Luck!!!

Rusty

[Z4Devil]

Hey, Rusty -

after a lot of replies I know what I could have done wrong. The problem was that the symptoms only has been showed at the Acanthos ...

The next 10 (rubras) + 15 (5 rubra, 5 rousselii, 5 crinita) will follow your advise. I am curious if it works.

Okay, Rusty - Nr. 8 seems to be assigned.

1. Charles

2. Tyrone

3. Bill

4. Tim

5. Meg (my wish)

6. Gileno (dto.)

7. Jeff (dto.)

8. Rusty

9. ?

10. ?

[Tyrone]

Hi, Tyrone (nice to see you again )-

hmmm ... for now they are not overwartered, but: from the point I have potted them in I gave a little bit more water than necessary; always thought . That could be ... I would like to quote Thierry (the seller) as follows:

The three species of Acanthophoenix are very decorative palms, but they have an excellent heart... so they are cultivated for their heart, excepted A. tripaludis (rousselii) which is extremelly rare and in my mind not cultivated for agriculture for the moment.

Yes our ground is volcanic and the medium for cultivation must be very drainant.

Natural conditions for the 3 species Acanthophoenix here in Reunion

- A. rubra : 0-150m (tropical hot) / humide - tropical rain forest / average 1500mm per year

- A. crinita : 800 m and more (quite subtropical) / highly humide - often fog / 2000mm and more

- A. tripaludis : 400-700 m (tropical) / medium dry / 500-1000mm

Especially concerning the bold marked information I assumed that the soil mix is different to the usual of the other palms. Reunion has volcanic (and therefore alkaline) soil. To compensate this I mixed the limestone and the lava together with the other ingedients.

We have talked about the germination af seeds of the Acanthos already, do you remember? As far as I know it takes up to 2 (!) years until the germination is successful. Not always, but it is normal.

I have 20 seeds waiting for germination for nearly one year but I do not give up. Further 5 I have ordered later and soaked them for 24 h in warm water with a special palmseed germinator. We will see if it makes a difference to the other seeds.

Love, Verena

That's good info Verena. I didn't know that A sp rousellii is now A tripaludis. That's one great thing about Palmtalk, getting up to date info.

I still have most of my ungerminated Acanthophoenix seed from a few years back but still nothing. Oh well. I'll keep them on the heat.

The advice others have given about barerooted palms is spot on. Basically bare rooting a palm shocks it. Giving them NPK fertiliser first up is likely to shock it further. It is going to grow from it's reserves first. I use a weak seaweed and fish emulsion as a soil drench and foliar feed for all my bare rooted palms and lose very little. It has plant hormones that get the roots into gear, and the foliar application makes sure that the leaves get some nutrients regardless of whether the roots are working.

Bare rooting palms is a bit like a car engine. When a palm is bare rooted the engine starts to run rough and misfire, and slows down. You've got to give it more accelerator before you let the clutch out or it will stall and die. When a palm stalls biochemically it is dead. That's just the image I have in my head anyway.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Charles Wychgel]

Verena

Bare root palms need different treatment as the other posters rightly said, just barely moisten the soil and water only with a spray a few times a day especially if your house is centrally heated.

I had some palms from Thierry as well also the A.tripauludis unfortunately the plant was not only bare rooted but some of the main roots were cut back this one did not survive for me so make sure he does not cut back the roots on the plants you ordered

Have you tried this source in France for seedlings of Acanthophoenix http://www.palmitopalms.com/plantules-de-palmiers.php

Here are some pix of my A.rubra and A.crinita

[Z4Devil]

Dear all,

thank you so much for the helpul advises and new informations. Some of them I did not know but they explain what could happen wrong with the other Acanthos. Most of the shipped palms overseas are bare-rooted, palms in Germany not, they are potted in.

I will follow your recommendations and keep you informed about my babies.

@ Charles: yes, of course I know Alain, even very good. Have ordered Acanthos already. Thank you.

Best regards, Verena

[Z4Devil]

Dear all,

thank you so much for the helpul advises and new informations. Some of them I did not know but they explain what could happen wrong with the other Acanthos. Most of the shipped palms overseas are bare-rooted, palms in Germany not, they are potted in.

I will follow your recommendations and keep you informed about my babies.

@ Charles: yes, of course I know Alain, even very good. Have ordered Acanthos already. Thank you.

Best regards, Verena

1. Charles

2. Tyrone

3. Bill

4. Tim

5. Meg (my wish)

6. Gileno (dto.)

7. Jeff (dto.)

8. Rusty

9. Bruce

10.Susan

***Closed****

[GTClover]

Dear all,

thank you so much for the helpul advises and new informations. Some of them I did not know but they explain what could happen wrong with the other Acanthos. Most of the shipped palms overseas are bare-rooted, palms in Germany not, they are potted in.

I will follow your recommendations and keep you informed about my babies.

@ Charles: yes, of course I know Alain, even very good. Have ordered Acanthos already. Thank you.

Best regards, Verena

1. Charles

2. Tyrone

3. Bill

4. Tim

5. Meg (my wish)

6. Gileno (dto.)

7. Jeff (dto.)

8. Rusty

9. Bruce

10.Susan

***Closed****

Verena, if that's for me, I'm very honored! (I'm honored even if it not for me!) In either case, I'm looking forward to baby pics of all the new babies.

Susan

[Z4Devil]

Hi, Susan -

yes, I meant you. This is your palm, all will be labeled with the above mentioned names. Photo will folow as soon as they have been arrived.

Love, Verena

[Gileno Machado]

Verena dear,

Sorry I can't help much with Acanthos cultivation tips...they seem tricky to establish once you put them in potting soil. Why don't you try using pure washed sand for a few of the new seedlings? After they overcome the initial adaptation period you may start with some liquid fert and dissolved manure...Try a different treatment with some of the new seedlings and compare the results...good luck.

[PalmatierMeg]

Aw thanks, Verena. I'm honored too. Do I send a baby gift? How about a sterling fertilizer cup? Can't wait for the baby photo.

[Z4Devil]

@ Gileno: sounds very interesting and practicable. Thank you! Will do that and keep you all informed.

@ Meg: No, don´t worry.

Please try to imagine what a funny sight placing the little palm gang side by side, everyone has a label with the above mentionend prenames and then ... the race is going to start. *snorting* We will see which of the palms grows fast, which not, which have a new leaf first and so on.

Because those babies have names now I have got the responsibility and have to take care for them even more.

Love, Verena

[BS Man about Palms]

If we get to pick our mixes, I would like the lightest mix...plenty of perlite for me and no sand or fertiliser. I think you need to have heat to use sand... Heres hoping!

[Z4Devil]

Has been clear ... okay, blue pots for the boys and pink for the girls.

[peachy]

Never mind Verena, it took me 10 years to find a Loxococcus rupicola and 6 months to kill it. Ich bin eine traurige Frau.

Peachy

[Z4Devil]

Peachy, verty sad to hear this. I know what it means to look for something rare things, to get them and - in the worst case - to lose them

Did you try to find another specimen successfully? To be honest have heard of it for the first time.

Good luck and cheer up.

Look, Peachy -->

http://www.lundkvistpalmgarden.com/Loxococcus.html

[PalmatierMeg]

Never mind Verena, it took me 10 years to find a Loxococcus rupicola and 6 months to kill it. Ich bin eine traurige Frau.

Peachy

Peachy, your experience sounds like mine, although I didn't hunt for mine quite as long. Still took it only 6 months to croak. I should have known better - I'd read it wouldn't take to my hot/humid climate. But the seller was in FL, so I figured, why not? And I'd still like to try again - more the fool me.

[Z4Devil]

Peachy, I forgot the Australian restrictions for importing live trees and seedlings, sorry for that. Now it is clear to me what it means to look for a palm for 10 years if you are an Australian.

Question: it is allowed to import seeds? If yes ... we will see.

Another suggestion: in case that Thierry will put in an additional Acantho as a gift (whereof I take ...), it´s name is Peachy. If not, the only surviving Acantho at the moment will undertake this.

Agreed? Gimme five.

Love, Verena

[Z4Devil]

Folkz ... just would like to let you know that all 3 current A. rousselii show new leaves, the last A. rubra is of very good condition with a large new leaf. *yeeeeeeeeah*

Pics will be uploaded at least on weekend, no time at the moment.

This visual made my day.

Verena

[Mark_NoVA]

Hi Verena-

When I ordered palms from Floribunda Palms, Jeff recommended using a seaweed fertilizer on the bare-root palms he sent. I did, and it worked well! Makes sense, it is a gentle fertilizer, but offers a little something to help the palms out...

Mark

[GTClover]

Folkz ... just would like to let you know that all 3 current A. rousselii show new leaves, the last A. rubra is of very good condition with a large new leaf. *yeeeeeeeeah*

Pics will be uploaded at least on weekend, no time at the moment.

This visual made my day.

Verena

Verena, sounds like things are looking up!

Susan

[Z4Devil]

Hi Verena-

When I ordered palms from Floribunda Palms, Jeff recommended using a seaweed fertilizer on the bare-root palms he sent. I did, and it worked well! Makes sense, it is a gentle fertilizer, but offers a little something to help the palms out...

Mark

Jeff is a good friend of me, I have ordered a lot of seedlings and some palms; he is very active at Ebay.

Very interesting comment, Mark. As I have nothing to lose and would like to be successfully with this last attempt I have bought this special fertilzer today; should have been delivered within 2 days.

From Thierry (and the tracking number) I know that the new A. rubra babies are on their way. As I mentioned before the rousselii´s are in a perfect condition; those little "varmints" want to know it.

Thank you very much for this recommendation; will keep you update here.

Susan, gimme five. The photos will show what I mean.

Love, Verena

[BS Man about Palms]

Verena- Jeff? Did you mean Dan?

If so, I never heard of Jeff Marcus selling on ebay, but what do I know..

[John in Andalucia]

Verena- Jeff? Did you mean Dan?

If so, I never heard of Jeff Marcus selling on ebay, but what do I know..

I was thinking the same, Bill. It wouldn't be Jeff's style, even if he did have the time!

[Z4Devil]

Hello all -

to bring some light into the confusions ...

Dan (Anderson) I know very well, too. He is my only and very special dealer for L. hoehnei. Besides ... Dan sells with Ebay.

Jeff Marcus I do not know, I mean Jeff Crawford in Hawaii. His ebay seller account is listed with the name of 7-heads.

Best regards, Verena

[BS Man about Palms]

Ah. That explains it. Jeff Marcus owns Floribunda in Hawaii and sells seedlings worldwide.

[Z4Devil]

Ah. That explains it. Jeff Marcus owns Floribunda in Hawaii and sells seedlings worldwide.

Yes, Bill. Have visited his homepage a few minutes ago and remembered that I was already there, with my search for Acanthophoenix and L. hoehnei. Unfortunately Jeff does not offer palms I am highly interested in; undoubted he has a wide range of palms .. but a minimum for foreign orders of USD 300.00 ...

If he offers a large L. hoehnei ... I would have ordered long ago. But only in this case.

Love, Verena

PS: so I am waiting for any special information of Jeff S. (IPS and forum member).

[Z4Devil]

Dear all -

time has come. As assumed the Acantho-babies arrived today. It was an exciting feeling to unpack them all. And what shall I say ... Thierry at his best. He followed through with my hope to get one additional plant as a gift. Indeed, 11 Acanthos were inside - GREAT.

That means, that

:D

Charles, Tyrone, Bill, Tim, Meg, Gileno, Jeff, Rusty, Bruce, Susan and *rataplan-on* PEACHY are ready to dunk in a seaweed solution with Superthrive and Palmbooster as recommended). Then they will go into the pot with a special and very light mix and will take care to hold them better a little bit dry than too wet.

Tomorrow I will create the labels with the above mentioned names ... and then ... the fun starts. Photos will follow tomorrow at the latest.

With the help and all recommendations and - of course - a lot of hope Verena will have an Acantho-habitat in a near future.

Thank you all very much.

[BS Man about Palms]

[peachy]

Remember to mist spray them with water every day. One week after potting up, a little drink of seaweed mix again. I remember getting orders from Cairns, in the very tropical part of my state during my winter season. I would pot them and a week later they would get wrinkles, shrivel up and die. Now I only order seedlings from the tropical North mid spring to mid autumn and my survival rate is now 99% instead of 2%. These palms come from places were it is 28 to 30 in the daytime in winter, so your nice warm house is cold to them. Speaking of cold, winter is nearly here for me.

It went all the way down to 9 last night. BRRRR. But today is a nice cool 27.

Make sure that little Peachy gets the best position and most expensive pot !!

Peachy

[Z4Devil]

Don´t worry, Peachy - I will take care for them.

I am tired this evening - we had a barbecue, it was phantastic and like summer, 28 °C.

I gave them a VIP treatment today with all recommendations in this thread. The name-plates I will affix tomorrow, pics will follow.

Look at my babies - aren´t they awsome?