Foxtail palms

[Tyrone]

I have been looking for wild pictures of the Foxtail palm (Wodyetia bifurcata) on the net

I found this article relating to the foxtail seed racket back in the 80's.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/images/foxtail_palms_cape_melville.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.amazingaustralia.com.au/scandals.htm&usg=__9uqqIiGb8V_IHX0jcq0f_Mmv8jk=&h=295&w=382&sz=20&hl=en&start=2&itbs=1&tbnid=p4W93CAsnNKnpM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMelville%2BRange%2Bpalms%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26tbo%3D1%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1

Best regards

Tyrone

[tropicbreeze]

There seems to be something wrong with that link, keep getting an error message.

I remember when the illegal trafficking in Foxtail Palm seeds was threatening their survival. Bit different now when plants are so cheap to buy and you can't even give their seeds away.

[Kathryn]

Has there been a study of the affect of collecting seed in the 80's and 90's? Since these palms seeds germinate so easily and the the palms grow so fast there probably wasn't as much of a long term impact as with some other palms.

[Zeeth]

Link works for me.

Now that they are so common, if the remaining trees ever go under threat, I'm sure they could just fly a helicopter over the area and dump a few thousand seed out. They fruit so prolifically, I'm sure locating seed wouldn't be a problem. I think the 3 or so mature trees at Kopsick palm arboretum have a few hundred seed under them at any given time.

I think it's funny how these seed used to go for $5 to $7 a piece way back when, but when they were auctioning them off at the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society, they couldn't get a dollar for a few year old plant. They may be "trash trees" now, but they are really beautiful, hurricane and drought resistant and better than queen palms in about every way except hardiness.

[koolthing78]

Bay News 9 just ran a story today about how foxtails are not suited to the Tampa Bay area (along with Adonidia, Royals, and "Eureka palms" (which, according to "this old house" at least, is another name for Dypsis lutescens)). I hope no one payed attention to the story--foxtails have a fascinating history, and can hold their own in many of our microclimates (even after a winter like we just had).

[Zeeth]

Bay News 9 just ran a story today about how foxtails are not suited to the Tampa Bay area (along with Adonidia, Royals, and "Eureka palms" (which, according to "this old house" at least, is another name for Dypsis lutescens)). I hope no one payed attention to the story--foxtails have a fascinating history, and can hold their own in many of our microclimates (even after a winter like we just had).

When was that story on? Bay news 9 cycles every hour, so those of us in the area should be able to catch the story. I hope not many people watched that, as Kopsick is in the tampa bay area, and none of the above have any more damage than they can recover from by early summer. They better not have said anything good about queen palms All of the above palms are better cold damaged than the queen is normal in my opinion

[BS Man about Palms]

Jeff Searle has an interesting story regarding these...

[koolthing78]

Bay News 9 just ran a story today about how foxtails are not suited to the Tampa Bay area (along with Adonidia, Royals, and "Eureka palms" (which, according to "this old house" at least, is another name for Dypsis lutescens)). I hope no one payed attention to the story--foxtails have a fascinating history, and can hold their own in many of our microclimates (even after a winter like we just had).

When was that story on? Bay news 9 cycles every hour, so those of us in the area should be able to catch the story. I hope not many people watched that, as Kopsick is in the tampa bay area, and none of the above have any more damage than they can recover from by early summer. They better not have said anything good about queen palms All of the above palms are better cold damaged than the queen is normal in my opinion

I think it was at the bottom of the hour, between 9:30 and 9:40. In the segment, they only mentioned foxtails (saying that they were "throwaway palms" in this area, suited best for south Florida). They said for a list of other palms not suited for this area, go to their website and click on the link. I was surprised at how few were on the list actually--no coconuts or bottle palms or king palms. Probably just the "usual offenders" that have been planted everywhere in the last 5 years or so. And yeah, a lot of Adonidias are dead (and a few foxtails that happened to be real unlucky), but there's quite a few that are still alive. Do-oon't stop belie-evin'!

[Zeeth]

Bay News 9 just ran a story today about how foxtails are not suited to the Tampa Bay area (along with Adonidia, Royals, and "Eureka palms" (which, according to "this old house" at least, is another name for Dypsis lutescens)). I hope no one payed attention to the story--foxtails have a fascinating history, and can hold their own in many of our microclimates (even after a winter like we just had).

When was that story on? Bay news 9 cycles every hour, so those of us in the area should be able to catch the story. I hope not many people watched that, as Kopsick is in the tampa bay area, and none of the above have any more damage than they can recover from by early summer. They better not have said anything good about queen palms All of the above palms are better cold damaged than the queen is normal in my opinion

I think it was at the bottom of the hour, between 9:30 and 9:40. In the segment, they only mentioned foxtails (saying that they were "throwaway palms" in this area, suited best for south Florida). They said for a list of other palms not suited for this area, go to their website and click on the link. I was surprised at how few were on the list actually--no coconuts or bottle palms or king palms. Probably just the "usual offenders" that have been planted everywhere in the last 5 years or so. And yeah, a lot of Adonidias are dead (and a few foxtails that happened to be real unlucky), but there's quite a few that are still alive. Do-oon't stop belie-evin'!

I found the story online. It's sad really, they basically said not to buy foxtail palms in Manatee county, but I have seen foxtails where I am, which is quite inland, with no damage. Some people shouldn't be on the news...

[gsn]

Bay News 9 just ran a story today about how foxtails are not suited to the Tampa Bay area (along with Adonidia, Royals, and "Eureka palms" (which, according to "this old house" at least, is another name for Dypsis lutescens)). I hope no one payed attention to the story--foxtails have a fascinating history, and can hold their own in many of our microclimates (even after a winter like we just had).

When was that story on? Bay news 9 cycles every hour, so those of us in the area should be able to catch the story. I hope not many people watched that, as Kopsick is in the tampa bay area, and none of the above have any more damage than they can recover from by early summer. They better not have said anything good about queen palms All of the above palms are better cold damaged than the queen is normal in my opinion

I think it was at the bottom of the hour, between 9:30 and 9:40. In the segment, they only mentioned foxtails (saying that they were "throwaway palms" in this area, suited best for south Florida). They said for a list of other palms not suited for this area, go to their website and click on the link. I was surprised at how few were on the list actually--no coconuts or bottle palms or king palms. Probably just the "usual offenders" that have been planted everywhere in the last 5 years or so. And yeah, a lot of Adonidias are dead (and a few foxtails that happened to be real unlucky), but there's quite a few that are still alive. Do-oon't stop belie-evin'!

I found the story online. It's sad really, they basically said not to buy foxtail palms in Manatee county, but I have seen foxtails where I am, which is quite inland, with no damage. Some people shouldn't be on the news...

I read the story on line and watched the video of the news cast. I don't think it was irresponsible reporting at all regarding the palms mentioned as being not really suited for the area. Kopsick is not really indicative of the overall climate of west central Florida. After all he was talking to the vast majority of home owners,not palmophiles like us,or the people calling the park home.

What I got from the story is in fact reality, for the overall area. He said if you buy these palms for your yard ,eventually they are going to be taken out by a cold event or freeze. I'm sure when alot of people go to the nursery/box store they have no idea a Foxtail, Adonidia, Royal, and Dypsis lutescens, are not cold hardy.

He was saying if you buy these palms fine, but be aware that at some point they are going to die, because of the climate,hence they are throw away palms.He never said don't buy these palms,but if you do buy them be aware what will happen to them eventually. This is something everyone on this board knows that pushes zones,that eventually the day will come when they get fried. Might be this year, next year or 10-20 years from now,no one knows. The average homeowner ,thinks if they sell it at the nursery/box store locally it should be fine/hardy in their yard. They were just giving the FACTS, so people can make an informed decision,something the average homeowner would have no idea of if they didn't run the story, unlike most on this board that are aware that the fate of these species can be in doubt EVERY winter!

I have enjoyed my foxtails they are a beautiful palm, even though alot would say that they are the NEW QUEEN PALM,(a trash palm )! However I am fully aware that one day, quite possibily it was this last Janurary or Febuary, will be the end of their run for me! And if I decide to plant another Foxtail I will plant it,and enjoy it, knowing full well that it's fate will one day be the same. There is a reason sabals and queen palms and are all over central Florida,one being native,the other surviving our climate,and still being green! Also another relavant fact was reported, that it takes most palms 2 full years to regrow an entire canopy if defoliated and lives...I am surprised when people say that by mid summer you won't even know we had a bad winter,wishful thinking, me thinks.

just my 2 cents

Edited March 31, 2010 by gsn

[PalmatierMeg]

When I moved to Cape Coral in 1993, one of the first thing I did was buy Betrock's book on landscape palms. Among the palms in that book that I fell in love with, including C. crinita, bottle and L. grandis, was the foxtail. I thought it was a gorgeous palm - still do if it is taken care of - and I searched all over the area for one. Most retail outlets looked at me like I was speaking Swahili. No one had them, expected to have them, knew anyone who did have them, etc. Finally, about 1997 I found a sapling foxtail at a nearby nursery for $50 and scarfed it up. I planted it where and Adonidia had succumbed to 29F the previous winter. Now foxtails are the landscape palm du jour and scorned by the palm literati. Bottles and spindles are close behind. In 1993 an idiot nursery owner sold me two young spindles as bottles. Not long after he went out of business. But I like my spindles anyway. I didn't get my first (pre-trunking) bottle for a steal of $25 until July 1997 while on a trip to Key West. I got my second bottle with a fat little bottle last year for $13. How quickly we turn from slavering desire to scorn.

[peachy]

My foxies keep on keeping on. They grow steadily and survive anything our climate throws at them. I have seen some neglected specimens growing in a very exposed site not far from my place and although they have been burnt by frost back to nothing, never watered or fed, they keep on surviving, although with a bit of care they could look so much better. There are a few big, glorious looking foxies growing in the middle of the CBD in fairly heavy shade too. I don't care if a palm is common or rare, a well grown healthy looking palm is nearly always a pretty sight. (CIDP, Washingtonias, and needle palms being the exceptions) (yech) Yes, I have some queen palms, all big boys now, lush and lovely, though sneered at by many. Archontophoenix alexandrae are another palm seen in almost every backyard, so what ? If you like a palm and can keep it alive then go for it. Don't let other people's silly snobbery affect what you think looks pretty.

Peachy

[Tyrone]

Link works for me.

Now that they are so common, if the remaining trees ever go under threat, I'm sure they could just fly a helicopter over the area and dump a few thousand seed out. They fruit so prolifically, I'm sure locating seed wouldn't be a problem. I think the 3 or so mature trees at Kopsick palm arboretum have a few hundred seed under them at any given time.

I think it's funny how these seed used to go for $5 to $7 a piece way back when, but when they were auctioning them off at the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society, they couldn't get a dollar for a few year old plant. They may be "trash trees" now, but they are really beautiful, hurricane and drought resistant and better than queen palms in about every way except hardiness.

I don't know what the state of the wild population is. That's one reason I was looking for pictures.The rock apes which were poaching seed, didn't bother to climb the trees to get the seed. That would have been the half decent thing to do. NO they chainsawed them to the ground then grabbed the seed. The availability of seed in Queensland and other parts of Oz is very good. They even fruit in Perth now. Even if the wild trees weren't producing seed, just the fruit from the trees around Cooktown could restock the wild. To be done properly, seed from the trees left should be germinated and planted back insitu in the wild. The area is 4WD accessible but a bit rough I've heard.

I first heard of this story from the owner of a B&B in Cape Tribulation, although I knew about the illegal trade. He was telling me about his neighbour, who was the ranger in question. I remember eyeing off all his Black Palm seed falling on the ground at the edge of his property before I heard this story, and who the neighbour was. I'm glad I didn't snavvle any seed. It might have brought back bad memories for him.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

For those who couldn't open the link here is the info.

"In the late 1980s the remote Cape Melville area north of Cooktown in north Queensland used to be the only place in the world where the foxtail palms grew. Some people realized the value of the seeds and every wet season they used to go up there to raid the palms and strip them of their seeds to smuggle to the States at a healthy profit.

Usually national park rangers back away from heavy @#$@ like this but Pat Shears, being a Vietnam vet, decided to enforce the law. He found barricades to a closed off section to the park knocked down and when he went to investigate he found a camp with several vehicles with guns and chainsaws. In his ususal style, barefoot, rifle at the ready, by himself and without a sound, he snuck into the camp and drove away in one of their vehicles that he impounded and delivered to Cooktown police station.

This was a job well done but when they traced the rego plate the #$%$ hit the fan!

The vehicle belonged to the brother of the secretary of the Queenland Premier! Several high ranking government officials became involved in the situation and attempted cover things up.

Pat was sacked, received death threats, and a huge CJC inquiry was launched. In the end none of the people involved were charged and Pat had to wait for a change of government to work for National Parks again! Meanwhile Four Corners TV show and many newspapers did his story, and he became the first man in Cape Tribulation to feature in Penthouse Magazine! ( With his clothes on)"

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Here's the little picture which went with the article.

I personally love the foxtail palm. I couldn't care if it is a bit common. I never get sick of looking at a good one. I planted some one leafers around the place from Cooktown collected seed and they're doing fine. This is one of my favourite palms.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Mark_NoVA]

That's an amazing story!

Can't believe such a coverup could happen in Australia that recently. Do you know if the thieves and the people involved in the coverup ever got successfully prosecuted?

[peachy]

Well Mark, hate to tell you this but when it comes to cover ups and corruption, Queensland can out do Nigeria !! Now and then there is a big expose, they select a sacrificial scapegoat, and business goes on as usual.

Peachy

[Dave-Vero]

I think we Floridians could produce an accurat "fried foxtail" map of the state. Locally, well-nourished foxtails did quite well. It's easy to provide trace nutrients, since palm fertilizer is available everywhere. They've become common landscape palms thanks to their quick growth and convenient size.

Since there was a mention of spindle, one growing by the Community Center, dry site, no irrigation, is looking great, as are better-cared-for ones nearby. One county north, and they seem to have suffered terribly.

Urban heat islands in Florida provide special palm habitats. At Orlando International Airport, the sheltered spaces between the terminal building and its parking garages are amenable to tender plants, and the airport's landscapers have planted adventurously.

[Lowey]

Link works for me.

Now that they are so common, if the remaining trees ever go under threat, I'm sure they could just fly a helicopter over the area and dump a few thousand seed out. They fruit so prolifically, I'm sure locating seed wouldn't be a problem. I think the 3 or so mature trees at Kopsick palm arboretum have a few hundred seed under them at any given time.

I think it's funny how these seed used to go for $5 to $7 a piece way back when, but when they were auctioning them off at the Central Florida Palm and Cycad Society, they couldn't get a dollar for a few year old plant. They may be "trash trees" now, but they are really beautiful, hurricane and drought resistant and better than queen palms in about every way except hardiness.

I don't know what the state of the wild population is. That's one reason I was looking for pictures.The rock apes which were poaching seed, didn't bother to climb the trees to get the seed. That would have been the half decent thing to do. NO they chainsawed them to the ground then grabbed the seed. The availability of seed in Queensland and other parts of Oz is very good. They even fruit in Perth now. Even if the wild trees weren't producing seed, just the fruit from the trees around Cooktown could restock the wild. To be done properly, seed from the trees left should be germinated and planted back insitu in the wild. The area is 4WD accessible but a bit rough I've heard.

I first heard of this story from the owner of a B&B in Cape Tribulation, although I knew about the illegal trade. He was telling me about his neighbour, who was the ranger in question. I remember eyeing off all his Black Palm seed falling on the ground at the edge of his property before I heard this story, and who the neighbour was. I'm glad I didn't snavvle any seed. It might have brought back bad memories for him.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone, many people poached seed from the area in which these wonderfull palms were first dicovered, and many did as you said, and cut down adult trees to obtain seed. I personally know the person who was prosecuted for the crimes of many, he is not a "rockape", he was simply unlucky to be the one who was caught and made an example of, I also know many others who should have been prosecuted for destroying the habitat of this palm, but who slipped through the cracks due to the inadequacies of National Parks and Wildlife Queensland, and for no other reason.

What about all the nursery Companies in America and Europe ( where most of the seed went )that created the demand and knew that the palm seeds they were receiving were collected illeagally, because at the time there were no plants in cultivation and so the seed must have been coming from the wild. I don't think any of them were prosecuted

To make a point about this, many of the seeds and plants that are coming out of places like Madagasca, are coming from protected areas, but I don't here any complaints from people in this forum about the origins of seed or plants they receive from these areas.

We all want to believe that we are saving rare species by receiving and propagating these seeds and plants, do we really know how the seed was collected, I know for a fact that rare trees in Madascar have been cut down for there seeds.

As a footnote, I would like to say that I am as guilty as anyone else, in that I have bought seed from unknown sources at times and I am sure that some of the rare trees that I have in my collection that are now seeding came from illeagly collected seed twenty or so years ago.

I am not a religious man but, I think this may be appropriate, People who live in glass houses shoud not throw stones

[Tyrone]

Bruce, I'm not surprised a scapegoat was made of someone. Someone to take the blame, and media attention, probably someone who did the least wrong. However there's one thing to illegally collect seed, it's another to hack the tree down. Anyone would have seen the problem with that. I did hear that a lot who did the deed were from Innisfail. I suppose it's still quite recent history.

The trouble is the law regarding this species was only in QLD. I think it was in 1995 that legal export began. I know of palms in Perth going back to 1990. Florida would be full of illegal gainings. I heard that a lot of seed made it's way out of QLD via the Northern Territory where there was no legislation.

I'd say you're right about Madagascar. It seems so stupid to me to cut a tree down that will give you continued income year after year. I like to think that I deal with reputable dealers. Maybe I'm a bit deluded?????

Best regards

Tyrone

[Lowey]

Tyrone, you are not deluded ,lots of deals are done legally and not so legally with reputable dealers and others.

If you look at things through rose coloured glasses, Foxtails are now common when they were once rare.

If some of the palms from Countries like Madagacar and others that are rare and endangered in their native habitat can become common in cultivation, then I guess we all win, Mother Nature too.

[Tyrone]

That is the ironic thing with the Foxtail palm saga. Now the palm is more common in cultivation than in the wild, and is unlikely to go extinct. If it had been left to the National Parks and Wildlife, the palm would likelyl be near extinction and it would not be common in cultivation. I know it's after the event and who am I really, but if the National Parks and Wildlife service actually harvested and sold the seed themselves, making sure a few seedlings went back to the wild, I wonder if all that mess would have been avoided.

Have you seen them up there? Are there many left? I tried looking on Google Earth but the resolution is too low.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Lowey]

Yes I have seen them and there are plenty left, and they are magnificant.

You should know that in the late 80's many of us in the palm community petitioned the same Government that eventually had people charged, to allow controlled collection of seed for monetary gain to help fund National Parks and Wildlife but the bureaucrats ( one of which was the Secretary to the Queensland Premier and the brother of the only guy prosecuted ) would not allow it, the Government of the day missed out on millions in revenue for their shortsightedness.

And we wonder why we have to pay the taxes we do

[Tyrone]

Sounds like they were in major damage control by that stage. Idiots. They could have done really well for themselves and it would have been managed.

I'm glad there are quite a few left though.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Lowey]

Peachy, I hope we have not reached the levels of Nigeria but it does make you wonder some times

[peachy]

Well people our govt departments arent noted for their intelligence. I have corellas, cockatoos and galahs here flying around in almost plague quantities but its illegal to export them to other countries where they are worth a small fortune and much valued, while here the farmers cant shoot or poison them quickly enough. If they were allowed to be exported the money could be put to good use in some kind of wildlife preservation schemes. It's the same with rare seeds....if they gathered the excess and sold them legally it would put the poachers and smugglers out of business plus ensure the continuation of rare species.

Peachy

[Lowey]

Peachy, You came, You saw, You should be running the Country

Regards,

[peachy]

The last lady from this part of town (whom I share a birthday with incidentally) who had big ideas of running the country found herself in quite a few spots of bother. I think I will learn from her example and repress my dreams of world domination. Besides that, I have never owned a chip shop so I am under qualified.

Peachy