volcanic and rock dust for palm growth.....

[trioderob]

was going to stay away from the forum but this subject really has my interest.

was looking at the growth rate of palms on the big island.

so the huge rainfall and 80F days are a major factor.

but what about the soil ?

hilo has layers of volcanic ash and dust from central asia.

the asian ash is grey and the volcanic dust is a dark red.

these ash layers may be the key to the rapid growth in this area.

this dust is fine and the worms and microbes eat them and the the palms can access the minerals from this dust.

so what I am looking at is the whole subject of adding rock dust to non hawaiian soils to mimic the conditions found near hilo.

Edited March 30, 2010 by trioderob

[Tyrone]

I've added blue metal dust (granite dust) to my foxtails and Veitchia's and they seem to love it.

I think Hawaiian soils with there high mineral content would be incredible stuff to grow in. There's all sorts of rock dusts and minerals out there. It's hard to tell exactly what minerals are in them, and how plant available they are, and even whether you can overdo it. I think I may have overdone the blue metal dust around one of my Chambeyronia's and even my R rivularis as after I put it on, the palms exhibited some sort of zinc deficiency. So maybe something came out of the dust in excess and then locked zinc??????? I don't know. Once you start fiddling around with rock dusts you're sort of on your own. There's a lot we don't really understand about soils I think. Some say put a few shovel loads into your compost heap to add trace elements and like you say, worms eat it all up dust and all, and release the nutrients in there castings which is awesome for the garden (not for pots though). To me that sounds most logical. Worms actually go looking for tiny bits of rock to eat so that it crushes up the vegetable matter in their guts.

One thing I have noticed about blue metal dust is that it's easily wettable. I have water repellant sands in my garden, but putting a half inch layer of blue metal dust and compost on the surface fixes that straight away. The water doesn't pool and run off the surface causing erosion on slopes anymore. It sinks right in and helps keep the underneath soil damp all the time.

Best regards

Tyrone

[trioderob]

tyrone-

One thing that I think is the key is that the rock dust must be very fine.

the microbes cant eat it unless it is like a powder.

so the HILO area has soil which has layer over layer of this fine dust

heck look at this photo of the "Hilo Soil Profile "

on this page:

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/soil/st_soils/hi_soil.htm

its not hard to figure out why BOL and other are getting fantastic palm growth !

look at the multi colored layers - what one layer of dust does not have the other does.

would like to hear from the guys on the big island who dig thru this stuff.

Edited March 31, 2010 by trioderob

[trioderob]

I found it !

here is the whole story about the soil in the Hilo area and why it is special

its whats called a "Histosol"

take a look at page (3)

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/SCM-20.pdf

Edited March 31, 2010 by trioderob

[Tyrone]

  On 3/31/2010 at 12:34 AM, trioderob said:

tyrone-

One thing that I think is the key is that the rock dust must be very fine.

the microbes cant eat it unless it is like a powder.

so the HILO area has soil which has layer over layer of this fine dust

heck look at this photo of the "Hilo Soil Profile "

on this page:

http://urbanext.illinois.edu/soil/st_soils/hi_soil.htm

its not hard to figure out why BOL and other are getting fantastic palm growth !

look at the multi colored layers - what one layer of dust does not have the other does.

would like to hear from the guys on the big island who dig thru this stuff.

The rock dust I use is the remains from the rock crusher machine and includes particles that by size alone are called coarse sand, smaller particles called silt and even smaller again called clay. When you add water to what I use the water goes milky. This is the silty clay particles separating from the heavier larger particles (coarse sand). For nutrient release the particles have to be small in the silt to clay region of particle size. I think the worms would eat this fine milky substance. I tried using this mix in with my potting mix and in very small quantities it's fine. Large amounts hold too much water in the mix, but surprisingly the foxtails don't care, even in out wet winters. On the ground this rock dust seems OK, basically because I'm on sand. It's the fine clay and smaller particles of silt which have a high Cation Exchange Capacity and latch onto soluble nutrients, essentially stopping them from leaching away until a plant root comes along and takes it away from the particle.

Looking at Hilo's soil, they have an abundance of silty clay loams. ie fine rock and ash particles mixed into an organic humus rich mix. That's the best combo you can have, especially since those fine rock particles have lots of minerals ready to release.

Best regards

Tyrone

[nomolos]

The only thing with blue metal crusher dust is that I have read that it has a ph of 9. How would this affect soil ph and availability of nutrients.

[Really full garden]

I think volcanic soils are a near perfect media.My newest garden is on the slopes of Fuego Volcano at 800m.The rainfall is about 150 inches.The soil is like a sponge.It is always moist ,but never soggy.My topsoil is black loam and is several meters deep.Palms just take off, unfortunately weeds do so as well.

[Tyrone]

  On 4/10/2010 at 12:14 PM, nomolos said:

The only thing with blue metal crusher dust is that I have read that it has a ph of 9. How would this affect soil ph and availability of nutrients.

I think that's where I've run into problems Sol. I've probably used it heavier than I should in some applications. A pH of 9 will lock iron very quickly as well as a few other trace elements. I've also used it in some of my germination media, but in connection with coco peat which is acid in nature. Pseudophoenix seem to like it. My base soil is around 6.5pH and so is my irrigation water so I can get away with a bit of it, but not too much. Also, I'm thinking that my crusher dust may have high levels of Aluminium in it (coming from the Darling Ranges where they mine it) and this will displace Iron as well, and mop up any stray Phosphorus too. What has surprised me is that Foxtail seedlings will grow fine in an almost 50:50 mix crusher dust to sand and seem to love it.

I suppose looking back if you applied rock dust with some Peat (pH 4) and maybe some iron sulphate the alkaline pH of rock dust would be solved, but I'd never apply rock dust to alkaline soils.

Best regards

Tyrone