Silver Queen and Butia Capitata var odorata

[reinerio1]

Any reliable research/documentation on the coldhardiness of the Silver Queen?  Is it hardy for zone 8b, 15 degree F?  What is the source for this information?

Any reliable providers of Silver Queen seeds?

Any experience in growing Silver Queens in Zones (9a, 8b, 8a)?

Same questions on the Butia Capitata var odorata.  

By the way, is this the same palm as the Butia Bonetti.  It seems that in Europe it is called Bonetti and in US it is called var odorata.  

I live in Miami, FL (11/10b)  but am relocating to Austin, TX (8b)

Any asistance will be deeply appreciated.  :cool:

[Mark Heath]

reinerio1

John & faith Bishock have two Silver Queens, might try looking them up and seeing if you could buy some seeds.

Jeff Searle in FT. Lauderdale sold me a Butia Bonnetti and it has grown like a weed!  Check w/ him. It has seen 28f w/ no damage.   I would try the B.Bonnetti in Texas.   My sister lives in Plano TX, 20 miles north of Dallas and Butia Capitatas are doing great!

[Alberto]

Queens grow native here . From the tableland (1000 to 1200m altitude) to the practically frost free region near the coast (sea).

   The min temps. of frost are in some regions -10`C and some other places like Caçador: -14`C.

[Alicehunter2000]

Alberto, have you ever thought about locating where the most cold hardy queens are and obtaining seed. There is a huge swath of the United States that is Zone 8b that would love to be able to reliably grow queen palms.

I live in Zone 8b/9a on the Northwest coast of Florida and ordinary queen palms are showing up everywhere. Every 5-10 years or so we get an Artic blast where we might see temps in the teens. I'm not sure that any ordinary queen will make it long term here. However, If you could locate some exceptionally cold hardy individuals that can reliably take these temps, you could probably make a lot of $$$$.

Maybe you could even name this extremely cold hardy strain the "Alberto Queen"

David

[SunnyFl]

Regarding the B. capitata -

Way north of Gainesville on I-75 (Lake City? something like that) is probably Zone 8b.  There is a mature capitata growing by the interstate - looks as if it's growing wild, dunno how it got there.  But it appears to be quite happy and healthy.

The B. eriospatha is supposedly even more cold-hardy as it comes from a higher altitude.  It is the greener of the two.  If I lived in Zone 8, I would surely want a number of these stately palms.

I wonder if the eriospatha can be crossed with the queen (the way that capitata is).  That should result in an even hardier mule palm.  Hm.

[Alicehunter2000]

B. capita are no problem even into extreme North Florida near the Alabama Line. We have so many B. Capita in Panama City it could be considered the Booti a Capita of the U.S..........sorry that's Panama City Beach during Spring Break.

David

[NBTX11]

(reinerio1 @ Nov. 30 2006,14:07)

QUOTE

Any reliable research/documentation on the coldhardiness of the Silver Queen?  Is it hardy for zone 8b, 15 degree F?  What is the source for this information?

Any reliable providers of Silver Queen seeds?

Any experience in growing Silver Queens in Zones (9a, 8b, 8a)?

Same questions on the Butia Capitata var odorata.  

By the way, is this the same palm as the Butia Bonetti.  It seems that in Europe it is called Bonetti and in US it is called var odorata.  

I live in Miami, FL (11/10b)  but am relocating to Austin, TX (8b)

Any asistance will be deeply appreciated.  :cool:

It would be extremely rare for you too see 15F in Austin, and least the last 15-16 years anyway.  Most winters lately have been 9a or even 9b.  Normal queens would have made it ok the past 8-10 years, but not long term (80s freezes and all could come back soon).  I can't say about silver queens, but I have heard they are the more hardy variety.  There are a good deal of cold hardy palms that can be grown in Austin.  I have normal queens and they seem to do OK in the "average" winter.  I am 50 miles south of Austin near San Antonio.  Butia Capitata should be 100% hardy for the area.

[Nigel]

(SunnyFl @ Dec. 01 2006,07:32)

QUOTE

I wonder if the eriospatha can be crossed with the queen (the way that capitata is).  That should result in an even hardier mule palm.  Hm.

Here is a Butia eriospatha x queen I imported to Europe this year with my business partner. It is an immense pam.

[NBTX11]

I would plant mule palms in Austin for a little extra hardiness, instead of queens if you had the choice between the 2.

[Tim M]

Queens are popping up all over Austin.  However, only a handful have successfully been in the ground over 10 years.  Queens labeled 'silver' have just started to appear in the past few years, so they really haven't been road tested in a big way yet.  Mules are a safer bet.  My mule has been in the ground three years, but it hasn't seen a nasty winter yet.  A mule 30 miles west of Houston (just a few degrees warmer than Austin) has grown quite well for the past 15 years.  Butias are pretty rock solid.  Cheers.

[edbrown_3]

I have seen Butia capitatas as far north as Americus GA, and read of reports of them in Norfolk.  You can see some from I-95 near the middle of the state .  I forget the town..   John BIscoek can provide specific knowledge of plant performance.  He lives in Sarasota county but in 99 that got lows of 22F which was comparable to what we saw in Jax almost 220 miles North.

Best regards,

Ed

[PalmGuyWC]

My parents used to live in Waycross Ga which is about 60 NW of Jacksonville.  Waycross used to have hundreds of butias growing there, and still does.  I can remember though back in the 80's when there were some severe winters with temps dropping into the single digits.  Some of the Butias were killed but most survived with foliage damage, but in a year or two they looked fine again.

When it got down to 14F here in Walnut Creek CA in 1989/90 my Butia X Syagrus had about 3/4 of the lower fronds damaged.  The center 3 or 4 fronds remained green.  They recovered with no permanent damage.

For those living in marginal areas for Queen palms, some of the sabals might work, also for lower growing palms.  Rhapidophyllum, Serenoa would be good choices.

Dick

[Alicehunter2000]

Try these first----Phoenix species, Washingtonia's, Sabals, Butia's, Mules, Queens , Rhapsis, C. robusta and microspadix, , Brahea, Chamaerops, Jubaea,  Nannorrhops, Trachycarpus, Trithrinax and several non-palm Cycad sp.------Then get crazy and start pushing the zones like the rest of us poor folks up here in cold country; starting with possibly a Bismarkia in your best microclimate. I have been making a list based on several sources to try and push my limits here in North Florida, somewhat scientifically. All the best.

David

David

[Alberto]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Nov. 30 2006,18:58)

QUOTE

Alberto, have you ever thought about locating where the most cold hardy queens are and obtaining seed. There is a huge swath of the United States that is Zone 8b that would love to be able to reliably grow queen palms.

I live in Zone 8b/9a on the Northwest coast of Florida and ordinary queen palms are showing up everywhere. Every 5-10 years or so we get an Artic blast where we might see temps in the teens. I'm not sure that any ordinary queen will make it long term here. However, If you could locate some exceptionally cold hardy individuals that can reliably take these temps, you could probably make a lot of $$$$.

Maybe you could even name this extremely cold hardy strain the "Alberto Queen"

David

Hello David,

I also am curious about the coldest place in south Brazil where the hardiest king palms grow.....

In my state Paraná it´s certainly in the county of Palmas.

In Santa Catarina,on the tableland at the city of Lajes, I also saw native king palms...

I have some pics of B.eriospatha X queen from tableland  ( both hardier then the regular queen  in the USA and B.capitata!)

http://thumb16.webshots.net/s....MG]

There is also a pic from a xbutiagrus at the topic: ´´Trip to Central Paraná´´

[PalmGuyWC]

I keep hearing about the "Silver Queen."  Does it have a different apperance from a "normal" Queen palm?  I'm wondering why there aren't more of them available if they are so hardy?  I would think an enterprising nurseryman would be growing hundreds of them.  Make that thousands.

There are Queen palms poping up all over N. Calif. including San Francisco, where they grow slowly.  I think we can thank Home Depot for that.

I have a queen palm Var. Santa Catarina that Digards nursery used to sell.  It has a thicker trunk than a normal Queen palm and is supposed to be more hardy to cold.  Mine was damaged as much as the others in our big freeze.  All of mine recovered, but there was trunk damage.

Dick

[NBTX11]

(Alicehunter2000 @ Dec. 05 2006,13:36)

QUOTE

Try these first----Phoenix species, Washingtonia's, Sabals, Butia's, Mules, Queens , Rhapsis, C. robusta and microspadix, , Brahea, Chamaerops, Jubaea,  Nannorrhops, Trachycarpus, Trithrinax and several non-palm Cycad sp.------Then get crazy and start pushing the zones like the rest of us poor folks up here in cold country; starting with possibly a Bismarkia in your best microclimate. I have been making a list based on several sources to try and push my limits here in North Florida, somewhat scientifically. All the best.

David

David

David, that's a pretty good list of palms for Austin.  If your looking for long term success, I would go with Mules instead of Queens.  Not that queens aren't popping up everywhere, and I mean everywhere in Austin and San Antonio.  I'm just worried about that inevitable "big freeze" that is going to wipe them all out.  Go down just about any residential neighborhood around here, and the large mature old palms that you see that made it though all the 80s freezes are washingtonias and sabals.  There are some ancient 30-50 footers around.  I've seen some great looking huge old large Phoenix species around too.  I guess what we can grow here is probably about identical to what you can grow in Northern Florida from Pensacola over to Jax.  Although I think the interior sections of the FL panhandle actually get colder than us here.

[Palmtrader]

I have been growing Silver Queens here in Europe for three years now and the only noticable difference is that they tend to form a thicker trunk early on and I imagine will ultimately produce a shorter more compact palm in the long run. I also took delivery of some seeds from RPS a couple of months ago and the seed appears to be slightly smaller than standard romans which are produced by the thousands here in Spain. We are still in the experimental stages with this palm but so far the success rate looks impressive with the silvers surviving -8 during February of this year alongside the roman which defoliated at -5. There are some interesting photos on webshots .com under the name 'Litoralis'.

[Alberto]

(Palmtrader @ Dec. 06 2006,03:25)

QUOTE

I have been growing Silver Queens here in Europe for three years now and the only noticable difference is that they tend to form a thicker trunk early on and I imagine will ultimately produce a shorter more compact palm in the long run. I also took delivery of some seeds from RPS a couple of months ago and the seed appears to be slightly smaller than standard romans which are produced by the thousands here in Spain. We are still in the experimental stages with this palm but so far the success rate looks impressive with the silvers surviving -8 during February of this year alongside the roman which defoliated at -5. There are some interesting photos on webshots .com under the name 'Litoralis'.

-5´C ,-8´C,  thats not impressive!

Our trunked queen palms take this temperatures with a big smile!

I am wondering where this´´Santa Catarina´´came from...From the littoral (a frost free region where Cocos nucifera are cultivated) or from the tablelands of Santa Catarina at 1000-1200m altitude(coldest region in Brazil) in Araucaria forest. A region where are big apple plantations.

[Palmtrader]

I am talking about young palms that are less than five years old. The bigger established Queens over here take much lower temeperatures.

[Alicehunter2000]

(Alberto @ Dec. 06 2006,06:24)

QUOTE

(Palmtrader @ Dec. 06 2006,03:25)

QUOTE

I have been growing Silver Queens here in Europe for three years now and the only noticable difference is that they tend to form a thicker trunk early on and I imagine will ultimately produce a shorter more compact palm in the long run. I also took delivery of some seeds from RPS a couple of months ago and the seed appears to be slightly smaller than standard romans which are produced by the thousands here in Spain. We are still in the experimental stages with this palm but so far the success rate looks impressive with the silvers surviving -8 during February of this year alongside the roman which defoliated at -5. There are some interesting photos on webshots .com under the name 'Litoralis'.

-5´C ,-8´C,  thats not impressive!

Our trunked queen palms take this temperatures with a big smile!

I am wondering where this´´Santa Catarina´´came from...From the littoral (a frost free region where Cocos nucifera are cultivated) or from the tablelands of Santa Catarina at 1000-1200m altitude(coldest region in Brazil) in Araucaria forest. A region where are big apple plantations.

That's what I mean Alberto........you might have the dibs on the most cold hardy queens and kings to be marketed up here. If you could find a queen that could take 15 degrees F. reliably you could sell the *#* out of seeds or seedlings to us poor 8b folks all over the world.

David

[reinerio1]

I live in Miami but will be moving to Austin by summer.  

I thank all of you for your comments.  I will try the Silver Queen in Austin as well as the Butias.

I have Capitata, Eriospatha.

I also will be bring about one hundred potted:

Phoenix:  Sylvestris, Loureiri, Dactylifera, and Canariensis

Livistona:  Chinensis and Decipiens

Any Austin experience (zone 8b) with either of these two genus?

I also read that Dypsis Decipiens can take to 22 F.  I find this hard to believe since this is such a tropical looking pinnate palm and is quite majestic.  I have never heard of this palm growing in 9b let alone 8B.  Any experience?

[reinerio1]

I live in Miami but will be moving to Austin by summer.  

I thank all of you for your comments.  I will try the Silver Queen in Austin as well as the Butias.

I have Capitata, Eriospatha.

I also will be bring about one hundred potted:

Phoenix:  Sylvestris, Loureiri, Dactylifera, and Canariensis

Livistona:  Chinensis and Decipiens

Any Austin experience (zone 8b) with either of these two genus?

I also read that Dypsis Decipiens can take to 22 F.  I find this hard to believe since this is such a tropical looking pinnate palm and is quite majestic.  I have never heard of this palm growing in 9b let alone 8B.  Any experience?

[richtrav]

I know an old palm grower who used to have an L. decipiens in Austin but it froze out one year in the '80s. There are a few in the ground (Great Outdoors) but none have been in the ground very long. L. chinensis is generally a little hardier. You may want to look at picking up some L. nitida before you leave FL, they seem a little hardier than decipiens.

Richard

[reinerio1]

I have not seen the Livistona nitida in either private or nursery cultivation in S. Florida.  I researched it a bit and learned that it is a strong zone 9 and possibly marginal in 8b.  I will try to look for it.  It seems like a beautiful and robust Livistona.  Thank you