Queen Palms in Central Texas

[Misty]

We are in the Austin, Texas area and we’ve had several queen palms for a few years now – we had a freeze last year, so we wrapped them in burlap, and they did fine. This year, we have some that were in pots that are newly planted in the ground now, in addition to the more mature ones still in the ground. Again this year it froze and they were all wrapped (and still are - we reused the burlap from last year, which did get damp in storage) but this year, all of the fronds are turning brown, even the ones at the top. Are the trees dying? Are they going into shock? Maybe we simply didn’t water them enough? We were thinking maybe it’s just not enough water, but the more mature ones are turning too, and they are so big and established, we rarely have to water them now – even in the summer, so that explanation might not be it. We’re watering more now just in case, but we just came off a hard freeze, so they didn’t get watered much over the last few weeks. The same thing is happening to our Pigmy Palm too. What can we do to save them? Are the browned leaves gone forever or could they turn green again (some of them are still a pale faded out green - not completely dead)? Should we trim them off? We have not taken hardly any fronds off, and none since this most recent browning – they are all still intact. We added fresh mulch right before the freeze. We have not added anything since. If we decide to add a fungicide, what would be the best thing to use exactly? We are watering as much as we can right now, but I am afraid that a fungus might set in and I'm not sure if they can be overwatered...??? Anyone who can help - thank you so much!

[Kathryn]

Welcome to the board Misty. How cold did you get? Syagrus romanzoffiana (queen palm) usually survive temperatures in the low 20's, but the first one or two emerging spears in the spring will be a bit deformed. Any temperature lower that 20ºF usually isn't good.

Phoenix roebelenii (pygmy date) are even more cold sensitive. They tend to get damaged leaves anytime there is heavy frost, snow or ice. My has survived a low temperature of 22ºF, but I covered it with a tarp and had a utility light for warmth.

Check out this post for more information on the roebelenii. Phoenix roebelenii - removing leaves

Watering probably isn't a good idea right now - cold and wet can lead to root rot.

If you can pull the center spear will a light tug, pour hydrogen peroxide in it.

[iamjv]

Welcome Misty.... although beautiful queen and pigmy palms are not long lived in our parts. Luckily they are relatively cheap to replace and the queens are fast growers... so if you truly love those palms you'll have to accept the fact that they'll have to be replaced from time to time here in central TX. Don't know if you've seen the thread regarding the damage to palms here in central Texas but that might be good reading for you and give you an idea of other palms that fair much better with our occasional arctic outbreaks.

As for your questions, any fronds that have browned are gone forever and won't green up. Leave them on the palm for now and when it warms up in the spring then cut them off. You may want to get a copper based fungicide to use on the growth point should the spears pull out or your notice a fungus starting up.

Jv

[www.dadluvsu.com]

If I may disagree with you Jv (even if I may not ), copper can actually damage living palm tissue. A better solution that I've had good results with is an aluminum based product marketed under the name Aliette. It's a bit pricey but I've had good results with it. Me personally for a queen palm, I'd pour Hydrogen Peroxide from the local drug store all over the crown once a day for a week and leave it be. If it lives great, if not, there are over 2600 palm species in this world.. Perhaps there is one better suited to your climate that will still have the beauty of a well grown Queen Palm!

Welcome to the forum Misty, hope you stick around beyond your current troubles, there is a vast wealth of knowledge from all different parts of the world, and even a bunch of ya'll from Texas! Welcome!

[Misty]

Thanks everyone for the feedback and the warm welcome!

It got down to about 17° here and stayed there for awhile. We now have a new symptom - folding fronds that are still green...is this a result of the freeze as well? Should I just let them hang or cut them off? Everything seems to just be folding over all at once.

We will certainly try the hydrogen peroxide, the fungicide (sounds like the aluminum based one is best...???) and less water. I am not sure how we would know if they have a fungus - what does it look like? Would it be under the burlap? Should we perhaps now remove the burlap since the freeze is over? My thought was that it might be holding in moisture that could lead to a fungus but I'm kind of scared to make a move on that.

I will send photos next if I can figure that out, but for now, I wanted to say thanks and mention this new symptom we're having to see if anyone has any information on that.

Thanks again!

Misty

[NBTX11]

I had a lot of fronds fold over too. Don't worry about that, as long as your center spear is green/growing, then it should survive. It is going to look ugly for the next 4-5 months until it recovers. Hopefully in March it should start growing vigorously. The first center spear may come out deformed. That is ok. The 2nd one should come out healthy. In my opinion, once the fronds bend over and collapse, you can cut them off, they don't do any good at that point. It will take a full growing season for it to look normal, hopefully there will not be another severe freeze for a few years. This freeze has convinced me that the Queen, although planted all over the place, should not be your centerpiece palm in South Central TX.

I took a ride around today to look at damage and the BIG winner around here was W. Filifera. Look great, no damage, with the grey/green fronds blowing in the wind. A majority of Robustas had a varying degree of damage, although recoverable. Most all the queens have a lot of damage.

[Davidl]

I agree with PiousPalms on the advice. Queen palms seem to be like mutt dogs they don't die to easily so there is a chance for survival.

[Gallop]

Queens are tuff, I've had many spears pull out and I just let them sit, over time they all came back.

[Misty]

If I may disagree with you Jv (even if I may not ), copper can actually damage living palm tissue. A better solution that I've had good results with is an aluminum based product marketed under the name Aliette. It's a bit pricey but I've had good results with it. Me personally for a queen palm, I'd pour Hydrogen Peroxide from the local drug store all over the crown once a day for a week and leave it be. If it lives great, if not, there are over 2600 palm species in this world.. Perhaps there is one better suited to your climate that will still have the beauty of a well grown Queen Palm!

Welcome to the forum Misty, hope you stick around beyond your current troubles, there is a vast wealth of knowledge from all different parts of the world, and even a bunch of ya'll from Texas! Welcome!

Thank you PiousPalms! I can't tell if they have a fungus or not - the hydrogen peroxide (what percentage?) and the fungicide can't hurt, right? I mean, if it turns out they do not have a fungus, will it hurt them to do these things?

Some of the smaller palms (the recently transplanted ones) are completely brown, including the center frond...I am not sure about the bulb since I haven't yet removed the burlap - should I go ahead and remove that now?

Thank you so much!

Misty

[Misty]

I had a lot of fronds fold over too. Don't worry about that, as long as your center spear is green/growing, then it should survive. It is going to look ugly for the next 4-5 months until it recovers. Hopefully in March it should start growing vigorously. The first center spear may come out deformed. That is ok. The 2nd one should come out healthy. In my opinion, once the fronds bend over and collapse, you can cut them off, they don't do any good at that point. It will take a full growing season for it to look normal, hopefully there will not be another severe freeze for a few years. This freeze has convinced me that the Queen, although planted all over the place, should not be your centerpiece palm in South Central TX.

I took a ride around today to look at damage and the BIG winner around here was W. Filifera. Look great, no damage, with the grey/green fronds blowing in the wind. A majority of Robustas had a varying degree of damage, although recoverable. Most all the queens have a lot of damage.

Thank you! I have read that these don't like their fronds being cut off much, so that is why I wondered about the ones folded over. Would it hurt to add some root stimulator to help them get going again?

Thanks again!

Misty

[NBTX11]

I had a lot of fronds fold over too. Don't worry about that, as long as your center spear is green/growing, then it should survive. It is going to look ugly for the next 4-5 months until it recovers. Hopefully in March it should start growing vigorously. The first center spear may come out deformed. That is ok. The 2nd one should come out healthy. In my opinion, once the fronds bend over and collapse, you can cut them off, they don't do any good at that point. It will take a full growing season for it to look normal, hopefully there will not be another severe freeze for a few years. This freeze has convinced me that the Queen, although planted all over the place, should not be your centerpiece palm in South Central TX.

I took a ride around today to look at damage and the BIG winner around here was W. Filifera. Look great, no damage, with the grey/green fronds blowing in the wind. A majority of Robustas had a varying degree of damage, although recoverable. Most all the queens have a lot of damage.

Thank you! I have read that these don't like their fronds being cut off much, so that is why I wondered about the ones folded over. Would it hurt to add some root stimulator to help them get going again?

Thanks again!

Misty

The ones that have folded over, have most likely broken off any way, so it won't hurt to cut them off. If they are still attached as normal leave them on, unless they are dead, then cut off. Your center spear may look ugly, but as long as it is growing, it is ok. As someone stated, queens are pretty tough, and recover from spear pull very well. I had a small one recover from a spear pull and looked fine eventually. The first spear will look deformed. Mark the spear with a marker to keep track of growth.

That said, queens are not long term hardy in Austin, without serious protection. because there will be another cold snap like this one again. I wrapped mine in Christmas lights, and it appears to be ok. Your long term hardy palms include Washingtonia Filifera, Sabal Palmetto, Sabal Mexicana, and Phoenix Canariensis (probably - there are ancient ones all over San Antonio), among others. You don't have to protect these.

[Misty]

I had a lot of fronds fold over too. Don't worry about that, as long as your center spear is green/growing, then it should survive. It is going to look ugly for the next 4-5 months until it recovers. Hopefully in March it should start growing vigorously. The first center spear may come out deformed. That is ok. The 2nd one should come out healthy. In my opinion, once the fronds bend over and collapse, you can cut them off, they don't do any good at that point. It will take a full growing season for it to look normal, hopefully there will not be another severe freeze for a few years. This freeze has convinced me that the Queen, although planted all over the place, should not be your centerpiece palm in South Central TX.

I took a ride around today to look at damage and the BIG winner around here was W. Filifera. Look great, no damage, with the grey/green fronds blowing in the wind. A majority of Robustas had a varying degree of damage, although recoverable. Most all the queens have a lot of damage.

Thank you! I have read that these don't like their fronds being cut off much, so that is why I wondered about the ones folded over. Would it hurt to add some root stimulator to help them get going again?

Thanks again!

Misty

The ones that have folded over, have most likely broken off any way, so it won't hurt to cut them off. If they are still attached as normal leave them on, unless they are dead, then cut off. Your center spear may look ugly, but as long as it is growing, it is ok. As someone stated, queens are pretty tough, and recover from spear pull very well. I had a small one recover from a spear pull and looked fine eventually. The first spear will look deformed. Mark the spear with a marker to keep track of growth.

That said, queens are not long term hardy in Austin, without serious protection. because there will be another cold snap like this one again. I wrapped mine in Christmas lights, and it appears to be ok. Your long term hardy palms include Washingtonia Filifera, Sabal Palmetto, Sabal Mexicana, and Phoenix Canariensis (probably - there are ancient ones all over San Antonio), among others. You don't have to protect these.

That information on the more hardy palms for this area is GREAT!!! If we lose these, we will not be going with them again, for these reasons...it's so hard to know when we're going to get that kind of weather for sure down here...I guess precaution is best, which we thought we did with the mulch and the burlap this year, but it just wasn't enough.

Anyway, at this point, I read something about anything green providing the palm with nutrients, so to leave it on (I'm assuming, even if that includes ones that are folded) - and that even the dead ones provide it with some protection, so to fold them up in the blanket...so I'm really torn about cutting them off. Also, at this point, we do not know if they have a fungus or not and I don't know if treating them as if they do will hurt them if they don't. Thanks for the input...I'm still gathering information for my plan to save them...I appreciate your help!

Misty

Edited January 18, 2010 by Misty

[Misty]

Thanks everyone for your input...you have all helped greatly and I sincerely appreciate it! However, it has led to a few more questions:

1. Is it okay to treat all of the palms (both species) as if they have a fungus, even if they don't for sure? (the hydrogen peroxide and the Aliette fungicide)? What does the fungus look like?

2. Burlap - keep it on now or remove it? Can it being damp cause a fungus?

3. Once we've taken all protective measures for a freeze, is it okay to keep them that way until spring or do we need to remove the protection once the warmer weather reemmerges, if only for a short time, and just re-protect for each individual freeze?

4. Bent but still alive fronds (still green anyway) - cut them off or leave them to provide nutrients to the trunk/bulb?

5. Dead fronts - cut them or leave them to provide some canopy of protection? Leave them only if we can't blanket the palm, cut them off if we can? Does this include dead fronds with green at the base?

6. Tying up the fronds - as tightly as possible or as loose as possible with them all staying in the bunch?

7. Lights - on the outside of the blanket or directly on the fronds?

Thanks so much everyone!

Misty

Edited January 18, 2010 by Misty

[www.dadluvsu.com]

It is ok to treat palms for fungicide even if you don't see it. (fungus - looks like any number of colors of fuzzy or puffy lookin stuff - usually is in the soil or deep in the crown's tissue where you won't be able to see it until its too late!)

I'd get rid of the burlap.

remove the cool weather coats when things rewarm, even if just for a few days... It's a pain in the backside, but it's the right thing to do.

Leave green fronds, cut dead ones... year round this is true.

tying fronds up - medium ish, no way to tell you that one, don't break the fronds but get them small enough to wrap.

I can't tell you about lights, never used em, but figure you don't want them right on plant tissue, I'd guess it'd burn em. maybe something like this, tie frond togethers, blanket wrap, them lights, then a waterproof tarp or something if it's gettin really cold.

im outta breath!

[AggiePalms]

Hey Misty -

Welcome to Palm Talk!

You have some good questions, and I generally agree with the answers. I had a large (12"diameter) queen that went through two nights of 14 a decade ago. Definitely beyond their comfort zone, as all the dead ones in town showed. I fortunately had enough time to wrap mine in dry fiberglass insulation, up to the leaves. All, all the leaves turned brown, and I thought it was gone forever. Fortunately, by mid-summer it put out a new spear, a bit odd looking but growth nonetheless. By the second year, it was growing well again, and now fruits every year. I don't think it grows quite as fast as before, but it has a nice crown.

Bottom line, as everybody else said: You have lots of damage, but with some luck you have managed to save the queen.

I remember when I lived in College Station it was considered too risky to try to grow queens as anything more than temporary palms. Best of luck!

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Misty, can you take a picture and post it in this thread? I would like to see what your Queens look like.

[NBTX11]

I would take the protection off now. We're up to 70F today, and it is supposed to be warm for the forseeable future. If we get any more hard freezes, you can be almost gauranteed they won't be near as cold as the last one. Avg temps are starting to go up, and in Feb it really starts to warm up. If we do get another hard freeze or 2, it will most likely be in the mid to upper 20s at worst. You can always wrap it up later if needed. I would plant one queen palm at most around here, and the rest hardy stuff like I mentioned...that way you whole yard isn't slaughtered in the event of a severe cold snap. If you can keep it alive, it will look beautiful by the end of the next growing season. A lot of people plant their whole yard in queen palms, but I wouldn't do that around here. If you're looking for a queen like palm you can try a Mule palm (a hybrid between queen and butia). These look like queens, but are several degrees hardier. You have to special order these, most places don't sell them.

[_Keith]

What happened to Misty and her queens?