What's killing my Butia (archeri)

[iwan]

This summer I lost four Butia, two archeri and two capitata. One of the archeri was planted this spring. The other archeri was an overgrown 5g. The one capitata was 5g and the other 15g. They all started with the oldest fronds browning and migrating up to the spear. The process took about a month until they finally died. They are in three different areas of the yard. Several other potted capitata and butia hybrids were in the same area and appear healthy, including two other 5g archeri.

I neglected my garden this summer because of work obligations, so these were only fertilized once in spring and had no herbicide contact. Some were on automated irrigation and others were hand watered, so there is no correlation to watering conditions. All are on well water.

What should I be looking for to protect my two remaining archeri and of course the other butias also. Are there any pests/diseases affecting Butia in California?

[PalmGuyWC]

Robert,

It's a puzzle to me what might be wrong with your Butias. I planted 2 small B. archeri this past spring (2 gal size) and they never missed a beat once in the ground, in fact their growth speeded up. I did fertilize mine a couple of times, once scratching in some chicken manure. I allowed mine to get on the dry side several times with no ill effect. All I can think of is there might be some mineral in your well water that is determental to palms, but it's odd that it would affect some and not others. I know of no diseases that are affecting Butias in Calif.

One of our PS members in San Jose has a B. archeri that bloomed for the first time this year. It had two spathes but no seeds were set, but that's often the case for the first bloom.

Dick

[Mark Heath]

Robert,

I am sorry to hear about your loss. Here in Florida i have to spray Subdue twice a year for Phytophthora, commonly known as Bud rot. I have lost many Butias and it starts just like you described and finishes just like you described.

I have well water also.

I would drench the soil w/ Subdue or Banrot immediatly if i were you. Also, Pythium acts the same way but is more active when temps are lower. Banrot will take care of both.

Good luck,

Mark

[kahili]

Thats what I was thinking too Mark-that it was either phytopthora or pythium. Generally root fungi affect the plant by killing the older leaves first and working their way up the plant. Crown rot or budrot, I think would start at the newer leaves-but still its the same fungi-same treatment. If its active, I would drench with the Truban (or Banrot if easier to get-Truban is in the banrot) and then a week or so later drench with the Subdue. Because its cooler now, I would just treat once with both Subdue and Truban (or Aliette if thats easier) and then when the weather warms up, start doing it again, and wait 30 days between treatments of the Subdue etc. If you know a landscaper where you can just buy maybe 8 oz or less of any of the above fungicides-it may be more practical for you. To drench a palm, I would only use 5-10 gallons of the mix-depending on the size of the palm/roots. I use 2T of Subdue/100 gall water-so that tells you how little you have to use per treatment. 2T=1 oz. I think I use 5T of Truban/100 gall water, but not totally sure. You have to be careful not to use too much when you drench, it all goes in the soil-don't bother spraying the plant. Use water afterwards to get it down a few inches. Its the healthy palms that you want to treat for preventative measures.

[Kris]

Yes,even i have lost few butia's all varities,and they too are fed with well water..

And i live in hot tropical climate with high coastal influence with 80% humidity in air.

Kris.

Robert,

I am sorry to hear about your loss. Here in Florida i have to spray Subdue twice a year for Phytophthora, commonly known as Bud rot. I have lost many Butias and it starts just like you described and finishes just like you described.

I have well water also.

I would drench the soil w/ Subdue or Banrot immediatly if i were you. Also, Pythium acts the same way but is more active when temps are lower. Banrot will take care of both.

Good luck,

Mark

[iwan]

Thanks Mark/Kahili, I will investigate what you mentioned. There was no spear pull on the planted archeri, even after the palm was obviously dead, so I don't suspect bud rot. I didn't check the other small butias for spear pull though. The 15g capitata did colapse by the end of the year and I noticed erwigs in the growth point, which I suspect were opportunistic and not the cause of death. This is a very hot/arid summer climate though, so summer fungus/root rot issues are not common.

Dick, glad to hear some are flowering now. I was expecting mine were mature enough to start flowering and that the planted one would throw a spathe. Unfortunately, my chances of getting a male/female pair are greatly reduced now with only two remaining.

[PalmGuyWC]

Robert,

Not to worry as Butias are monecious with both sexes contained in the same inflorescence. I'm curious. Does anyone else in Calif. have a blooming size B archeri? Crossed with either Syagrus or Parajubaea, it might make an interesting small hybrid.

Dick

[iwan]

Thanks Dick for the reassurance. I know Butia is monoecious, but for some reason I kept thinking I needed both sexes. I suspect mine are 7-10 years old (I have had them for two years), so I would expect them to be near blooming age. The dilemma is going to be, breed them for future archeri offspring or some real cool hybrids (either outcome will be rare).

Robert,

Not to worry as Butias are monecious with both sexes contained in the same inflorescence. I'm curious. Does anyone else in Calif. have a blooming size B archeri? Crossed with either Syagrus or Parajubaea, it might make an interesting small hybrid.

Dick

[mnorell]

Robert, could it be a subterranean rodent such as a gopher or mole? I'm not sure if this would be the typical progression of symptoms, but I know they can wreak havoc.

[iwan]

Not likely Michael.

All of them (except one archeri) are still in pots. The planted one is in an aviary wire cage as I did see some gopher activity in that area before I planted. It is possible that a critter got in, but nothing else in that bed has been damaged and the cats took care of the gopher shortly after it arrived.

Robert, could it be a subterranean rodent such as a gopher or mole? I'm not sure if this would be the typical progression of symptoms, but I know they can wreak havoc.

[PalmGuyWC]

Is anyone growing B. archeri in San Francisco? Butias grow in SF, but very slowly. B. archeri would be a nice addition if they would grow there. They would be perfect to fit into a small SF garden with lots of sun.

Dick

[Darold Petty]

I gave away my plants of B. archeri, as they did not thrive in the cold, humid, and cloudy microclimate of the fogbelt! I do have a Butia bonnettii that grows well. Perhaps on the eastern side of SF, the B. archeri would be fine.

[PalmGuyWC]

Darold,

I'm pleased to report that the two Butia archeri that you gave me are happy in Walnut Creek. I'll ever be grtatefull that you gave me those two palms, as they are ones that I always wanted. I planted them last summer and they seemed to spring into growth once in the ground. Even for me with my hot summers, they are slow growing, but I expect they will double in size in the next year. David Sylvia has one blooming in San Jose.

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

Dick,

Does your friend David post here? If not, any way of getting him or someone else to post a picture or email it to me to post, of his Butia archeri. I'd love to see it in flower.

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Matt,

PM me your E-mail address outside of PalmTalk. My bud sent me the pictures but they are not very good. My AOL address is PalmGuyWC@aol.com

My low this morning is the same as yours..........COLD!!!!

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

Matt,

PM me your E-mail address outside of PalmTalk. My bud sent me the pictures but they are not very good. My AOL address is PalmGuyWC@aol.com

My low this morning is the same as yours..........COLD!!!!

Dick

Hi Dick,

I sent you an email, looking forward to the pics.

I'm sitting in Honolulu right now where it's nice and warm Definitely not liking the temps at my place, it's been sitting close to freezing for many hours. Yuchhh!

Matt

[PalmGuyWC]

Matt,

PM me your E-mail address outside of PalmTalk. My bud sent me the pictures but they are not very good. My AOL address is PalmGuyWC@aol.com

My low this morning is the same as yours..........COLD!!!!

Dick

Hi Dick,

I sent you an email, looking forward to the pics.

I'm sitting in Honolulu right now where it's nice and warm Definitely not liking the temps at my place, it's been sitting close to freezing for many hours. Yuchhh!

Matt

HONOLULU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate you!!! What the hell are you doing up so early in Hawaii?? I sent you the pics, and hope you can use them.

Dick

[freakypalmguy]

Matt,

PM me your E-mail address outside of PalmTalk. My bud sent me the pictures but they are not very good. My AOL address is PalmGuyWC@aol.com

My low this morning is the same as yours..........COLD!!!!

Dick

Hi Dick,

I sent you an email, looking forward to the pics.

I'm sitting in Honolulu right now where it's nice and warm Definitely not liking the temps at my place, it's been sitting close to freezing for many hours. Yuchhh!

Matt

HONOLULU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate you!!! What the hell are you doing up so early in Hawaii?? I sent you the pics, and hope you can use them.

Dick

I'm doing the 8am departure back to LAX.

[iwan]

Matt,

Here is a link to a few pictures of his garden during a NorCal IPS meeting in Sept 2006 (can't believe it has been three years). Not sure if there are any other threads, but search wasn't providing good results.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ic=2008&hl=

[PalmGuyWC]

LAX is not a bad destination either. I see you are up to 50F and I'm still freeeeeezing.

Dick

[Mark Heath]

LAX is not a bad destination either. I see you are up to 50F and I'm still freeeeeezing.

Dick

Dick,

What are your average low temps for winter? I have allways wondered how Cali is in winter compared to Florida

in winter. Regarding north to south.

For instance, If i have 32f at my home in central Fla, then you can add 10-12 degrees for south Fla and subtract the same for north Florida, depending on microclimates of course.

The reason i ask this is that Northern Cali is so much further north than northern Florida, but yet after seeing what you guys can grow is impressive! The garden pics i see on here from N.Cali have some palms that i struggle w/ here!

I am just curious!

[PalmGuyWC]

Mark,

If I can squeek by a winter with a low of 25, I consider myself lucky. The winter of '07 was one of the coldest I've had in years and it got down to 23.5 and many nights below freezing. Last year my low was 25.5 and this year so far, 2 nights down to 25. North and Southern Calif. have many micro climates, usually depending on elevation or proximity to the ocean.

Generally I would say S. Calif. winters are about 10 degrees warmer than N. Calif. They can have many warm days in the winter, but once the chill arrives in N. Calif., it usually remains until spring. Most of my palms shut down around the middle of Nov. and don't start growing again until March. I'm not a zone pusher so most of my palms are good down to 25F, and most will take it lower. I have a gradual cooling off period in Nov. so by the time freezing temps. arrive, the palms are harden off and have stop growing. My Queens will take it down to 21 or 22 before the lower fronds start to yellow.

My two most marginal palms are Jubaeopsis and the Parajubaeas. Any temps below 25 and I can expect foliage damage, but they survive much colder. If I expect below 25 I cover my Jubaeopsis with a sheet and the Para TVT is to large to cover now. All of the hybrids that Patrick has done seem to be very cold hardy.

Another peculiar aspect of my climate is that I have cool summer time temps. at night, usually in the upper 50's or 60's, but the days could be in the 100's. Parajubaeas seem to like this temp. range, and so do the Butias, Queens, etc. There are no tropical palms that would survive for long in my climate.

Dick