Ganoderma Spores Suspected In Mulches

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Be Aware That...in my normal routing of palms' maintenance at numerous Miami, FL residential landscapes, I am finding many palms that have recently contracted Ganoderma Butt Rot caused directly by installation of black colour-dyed mulch (where wood was chipped provided from various sources.)

Tree decline has been within three months maximum, and is occurring in palms that I rarely find Ganoderma to be an issue, i.e. Rhapis. Kentias, Licualas, and Archontophoenix.

Be wary of these colour-dyed mulches; learn what are sources of this ground organic materials! Removed diseased palms perhaps?? This situation is serious indeed, in its regionalized scope.

Paul

[newtothis]

great i have the scotts brand black mulch that is supposed to last a year

[Perito]

Paul- I certainly wouldn't want any of my Palms to get butt rot. Maybe you could just wipe it off with some fungicide drenched T.P.

Perry

[junglegalfla]

:floor:

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Paul- I certainly wouldn't want any of my Palms to get butt rot. Maybe you could just wipe it off with some fungicide drenched T.P.

Perry

It's worth a try but once conchs appear near or on the trunk, it's too late. I've been treating my clientd' homes' date palms with Aliette WDG, and Subdue Max. It's too soon to tell if that will work. THis is pretty "nasty" & very serious!

Paul

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Paul, just curious...did you have the Ganoderma cultured from the mulch?

Rusty

[kahili]

After just reading about it, I am wondering Paul, why you are treating the palms (and are these infected ones?) with the above fungicides? It seems like a waste of money for your clients as all the info says that there is no treatment for it. Did a pathologist tell you to do it? this is a totally different disease than Phytopthora bud rot-where the above fungicides in healthy palms might help them not get the Phytopthora bud rot. It seems like the best thing to do with the infected palms is to immediately remove them, taking care not to spread any spores from the conk

[Moose]

It is also my understanding with Gonoderma, that once the soil under the palm has become become afflicted that any new palm installed in that spot is doomed to the same fate. If I recall correctly, there were a few specimen palms at Fairchild that contacted Ganoderma and nothing has been replaced in those spots because the crap lies awaiting in the soil. * *

[kahili]

That is correct Moose- and that would apply to pythium, phytopthora and a few other fungi that dwell in the soil. The only way to safely plant another plant that is susceptible to that particular fungi is to either fumigate the soil or dig it out, taking care to get all of the infected soil, and replace the soil

[merrill]

I'm reminded that Dent Smith had some Ganoderma along the front of his property, affecting a number of palms on the north side of his front gate. They dug them out VERY carefully, and succeeded in getting rid of the Ganoderma! This happened many years ago without reinfestation!

merrill

Edited October 22, 2009 by merrill

[rozpalm]

To pickup the spores from mulch, I assume that the mulch must contain ground up palms that had Ganoderma? My second question is how do you know it was the black mulch given the fact that everything that I can find on this fungus says it takes years for the conchs to appear? Lastly, if Ganoderma can be spread so easily via mulch, I would think that if such a pathogen were to get into a place like Fairchild, it would kill 100's of palms not only a few. Is there possibly a vector or some other factor that also has to be present to spread Ganoderma?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

Ganoderma is not completely understood as to why some palms get it and others don't. As I understand it, the spores are present just about everywhere in soils and mulch, but the density of spores (and mycelia?) in soil where an infected tree was removed, becomes overwhelming for any new palm planted in that hole.

I remember Dr. Tim Broschatt explaining how they cut holes into trunks and stuffed them full of conchs, but the palms didn't get infected at a rate significantly higher than the control group. I think the only way to reasonably live with it is to remove the palm immediately and if you replant, use a hardwood tree or shrub. You can fumigate or remove all the soil but those remedies are not always successful and the soil will just contaminate some other site.

I never saw the black mulch. Do they use chipped palm trunks?

[rozpalm]

Jerry I agree that most likely it exists in all soils, just not at a level to overwhelm a palm. Perhaps the palms do have a natural defense against the fungus and only becomes susceptible when some other vector is capable of getting it past the palms defense mechanism. Years ago before I was into palms I had a Coconut palm that had the conks on it and I just removed them because they were so ugly. In Huricane Wilma the palm snaped at the base and I left the palm trunk in the ground to rot. I planted grass over it and forgot about it. This palm was 5' from another large speciman and has a large older cat palm growing right next to it. None have shown any signs of Ganoderma.

The black mulch seems to be the new rage. I don't know much about it, but I see it going down all over town. It looks great and much more natural then the colored mulches. It also makes an incredible contrast that seems to "light up" your plants. I have thought about switching to it next year when I re-mulch.

[palmmermaid]

I use only Australian pine mulch. I've heard that some things won't grow in it but I haven't found that to be true. I put it down 6" deep on my paths and still had things come up through it. I order it by the 25 cubic yards load. I am working on my second load this year now. If I had to buy mulch it would be melaleuca mulch. I did use that for a while and had no problems with it. I would never buy that colored mulch - red or gold or whatever.

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

Paul, just curious...did you have the Ganoderma cultured from the mulch?

Rusty

No, Rusty, I did not need to in this case. There were mature and immature "conchs" clinging to many patches of these black-mulched landscapes. I bagged many up and they pulled up about three inches of mulch with them. There weren't always trees nearby, for example the black mulch surrounded the central air conditioning unit was full of Ganoderma conchs pretty well formed. It was pretty disgusting. There were also several palms with the conchs on the trunks that were dead and/or dying.

The shredded wood was "who knows what" but I suspect ganoderma infected palms were shredded then dfied. If that's the case, it weould indicate to me unethical business practices, Rusty. All in all, a damned shame!

Paul

[palmislandRandy]

Jerry I agree that most likely it exists in all soils, just not at a level to overwhelm a palm. Perhaps the palms do have a natural defense against the fungus and only becomes susceptible when some other vector is capable of getting it past the palms defense mechanism. Years ago before I was into palms I had a Coconut palm that had the conks on it and I just removed them because they were so ugly. In Huricane Wilma the palm snaped at the base and I left the palm trunk in the ground to rot. I planted grass over it and forgot about it. This palm was 5' from another large speciman and has a large older cat palm growing right next to it. None have shown any signs of Ganoderma.

The black mulch seems to be the new rage. I don't know much about it, but I see it going down all over town. It looks great and much more natural then the colored mulches. It also makes an incredible contrast that seems to "light up" your plants. I have thought about switching to it next year when I re-mulch.

I'm not sure what actually is used to make it black. Once a year I go to my mom's place in New Jersey for some yard work. The black mulch I used had a strong petrolium or chemical odor & also stained a white t shirt. The black dye may help mask the mix of ground up wood.

[Paul The Palm Doctor!]

After just reading about it, I am wondering Paul, why you are treating the palms (and are these infected ones?) with the above fungicides? It seems like a waste of money for your clients as all the info says that there is no treatment for it. Did a pathologist tell you to do it? this is a totally different disease than Phytopthora bud rot-where the above fungicides in healthy palms might help them not get the Phytopthora bud rot. It seems like the best thing to do with the infected palms is to immediately remove them, taking care not to spread any spores from the conk

The treatments are insisted on by the client; they are done at "no charge" ALWAYS, and they must also sign a waiver that states the treatment is only experimental and the infected tree probably will die.

I will only treat 3 times at two week intervals, and this gives the homeowner a chance to get their hearts in "sync" with their brains, so they will agree to cut the beloved palm(s) down. I can usually get them to agree to remove their infected trees ASAP (usually within a couple of months.)

I always leave Univ.of Florida reprints with Ganoderma information. That helps, also to speed the tree removal process.

The "bottom line" issue of my post is to make us aware that dyed mulches are derived from many kinds of shredded wood. That's a scary realization. It is also a reprehensible business practice if along with all the other junk wood that is shredded, palms that were cut down because of Ganoderma WERE ALSO shredded, then dyed! The homeowner won't know that, and won't ask what kind of material is in those bags. It's a reality...and a lousy one at that!

A very upset & angry Paul

[Don Little]

interesting link

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pp100

[Tyrone]

Dying mulch just doesn't seem right. I've never heard of this practice before. We have black mulch over here, and have had it for an eternity, but I always assumed it was due to the composting process and the peat and humus put into the mix, not dye.

In the US, is there a nursery certification group which keeps an eye on cleanliness and the spread of infectious plant diseases ie Phytophthora, Pythium, Rhizoctonia by contaminated soil etc in the industry? That's what we have over here. If you start spreading Phytophthora and infectious fungal pathogens in your soil products, you either clean it all up at great expense or close down. Mulching up infected palm trunks would be very problematic into your mix.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Moose]

After just reading about it, I am wondering Paul, why you are treating the palms (and are these infected ones?) with the above fungicides? It seems like a waste of money for your clients as all the info says that there is no treatment for it. Did a pathologist tell you to do it? this is a totally different disease than Phytopthora bud rot-where the above fungicides in healthy palms might help them not get the Phytopthora bud rot. It seems like the best thing to do with the infected palms is to immediately remove them, taking care not to spread any spores from the conk

The treatments are insisted on by the client; they are done at "no charge" ALWAYS, and they must also sign a waiver that states the treatment is only experimental and the infected tree probably will die.

I will only treat 3 times at two week intervals, and this gives the homeowner a chance to get their hearts in "sync" with their brains, so they will agree to cut the beloved palm(s) down. I can usually get them to agree to remove their infected trees ASAP (usually within a couple of months.)

I always leave Univ.of Florida reprints with Ganoderma information. That helps, also to speed the tree removal process.

The "bottom line" issue of my post is to make us aware that dyed mulches are derived from many kinds of shredded wood. That's a scary realization. It is also a reprehensible business practice if along with all the other junk wood that is shredded, palms that were cut down because of Ganoderma WERE ALSO shredded, then dyed! The homeowner won't know that, and won't ask what kind of material is in those bags. It's a reality...and a lousy one at that!

A very upset & angry Paul

Paul - Palms do not shred easily to make mulch due to the fiberous strands in the petioles and trunks. I believe that a commercial enterprise would refrain from shredding palm material due to the severe wear and tear on their money generating equipment, i.e. not cost effective. Your theory that dyed mulches are composed of shredded palm by-product containing Ganoderma is flawed. I am not a fan of dyed mulches because of the chemical additives to the mulch to achieve the desired color?

Before you condemn a product, you should be sure of your facts prior to making such unproven and unsubstantuated accusations in my opinion. Do you sterilize your tools prior to you moving on to your next patient?

[kahili]

Well, I am confused Paul. From your second post where you said that you were using Subdue and Aliette, you definitely gave the impression that these fungicides might work...."its too soon to tell". But its not too soon to tell-they won't work. Then you said that you know they won't work-but you are doing it to placate the homeowner, and you hand the homeowner the info that says it won't work-but you do it anyway....and for free?? and not just once-but twice, and not just one systemic, but two different ones! I can't believe that the average homeowner is that familiar with fungicides like Subdue and Aliette-they aren't sold at Home Depot and they are expensive, so I assume that you told them about them-which I would think would raise their hopes, thereby increasing the time that the tree is still in the ground-waiting to fall on someone and still spreading the spores into the air and possibly infecting more of their palms or their neighbors palms.

I deal with landscapers alot-they are my customers, and I can tell you that it would be unthinkable for them to administer expensive chemicals for free-they wouldn't do it. And most of them (I would hope) would not do it if they didn't think that it would work. I just think its a very irresponsible practice to apply these chemicals when you know they won't work.

Also-apparently there are at least two different strains of Ganoderma, one that feeds on palms and one that goes after hardwds like oak etc. Might it be possible that the conks that you found in the mulch were of the hardwood strain, since the mulch most likely included hardwoods? That seems a more likely scenario to me.

[Moose]

Wow Kahili - I was unaware that there are two different strains of Ganoderma. You learn something every day! I have Drs. Tim Broschat and Alan Merow's book on Ornamental Palm Horticulture and the two different strains were not mentioned. Perhaps since their publication was focused on palms, the palm related Ganoderma information was provided.

Thanks for the information. If I get lucky enough to get some oak mulch some day - I will definitely monitor it.

[kahili]

Well Moose, ironically, I read it from the link from Don L, probably the same report/info that Paul gives his customers!

[SFloridacollector]

Be Aware That...in my normal routing of palms' maintenance at numerous Miami, FL residential landscapes, I am finding many palms that have recently contracted Ganoderma Butt Rot caused directly by installation of black colour-dyed mulch (where wood was chipped provided from various sources.)

Tree decline has been within three months maximum, and is occurring in palms that I rarely find Ganoderma to be an issue, i.e. Rhapis. Kentias, Licualas, and Archontophoenix.

Be wary of these colour-dyed mulches; learn what are sources of this ground organic materials! Removed diseased palms perhaps?? This situation is serious indeed, in its regionalized scope.

Paul

I would think there is a slight possibility of contamination from any mulch and that the color of mulch has no correlation to disease. The color dye is another issue, but any lot of commercial mulch could have a contaminate.

The only true hardwood mulches I know that are available regularly are pine bark, eucalyptus and malaleuca. The cypress mulch probably has little to no cypress and who knows what it really is. The red is supposedly chipped pallets that are dyed red. The black usually seems to be sandy. It's always possible a palm mixed with the other material but all I've bought seemed pretty consistent.

Thanks for the warning Palm Doctor, but it scares me like the email that was circulated about people waking in a bathtub full of ice and finding a note to call 911 because a kidney was removed.

What I heard once about ganoderma still seems true from my experience: it's like cancer in people-it's always a possibility to get terminal cancer but not all humans get it. Usually mature, older people get it but not all people die of cancer. It's almost impossible even with history to know who will and who won't get sick.

Precaution is good but unwarranted fear is a waste.

My 2 cents.

Chip

[Tala]

lots to address here

theres prob. around 200 or more sps of Gano, no one has heard of reishi mushroom? This very popular, used in tea /coffee, esp. China, USA. G.lucidum is known for great many medicinal properties. G.zonatum is the one we are concerned with here, it is host specific for palms. Another sps of Gano was once considered to infect palms but that has since been lumped into G.zonatum.

>From my exp.in the field Gano does not live in mulch. As someone mentioned above palms are rarely if ever used for mulch, the stems are too fibrous for this. Palm foliage is used for mulch, however palm foliage cannot host Gano.

I like the cancer analogy above, explains what you can do to help prevent Gano very clearly - which is nothing. No treatment methods exist, no prevention methods exist (aside from removing/bagging the conch). You cannot even confirm a case of Gano until you observe a conch on an infected palm or cut down the already dead palm and check the lower stem. Many yrs ago I ended up in a huge argument w/ some notable botanists. They insisted it was spread via pruning tools, string trimmers, etc. Nice to see they have come around. One of the problems with botanists is if it doesn't happen in their lab then it "didn't happen" period. Apparently some have learned to trust what occurs in the field now.

One thought I'd like to throw out for possible discussion - Gano does not attack palm roots but it uses them to move from the soil into the palm wood. Lately I've been wondering if there is a way to block the fungus from doing this by treating the rootzones of healthy palms. Products such as Subdue, Alliete, etc. are made to combat root rot, other root issues, doubtful these would be an effective prophylactic. Perhaps in the future something can be formulated to isolate the spores in the ground. It would have to be a product that isn't very mobile in the soil, has a long shelf life, etc. I haven't talked to Dr. B & co. in a long time, maybe they are working towards this now? If Gano spores are truly "everywhere" then this idea most likely all for naught but not sure that statement is true.

[Jose Maria]

A few days ago I discussed Ganoderma with a friend agronomist who is in the african oilpalm business .

Ganoderma exists here but does not kill the palm , and causes only some damage here and there, not worth of controlling with fungicide. But most of the soils planted with oilpalm have clay in them, and some areas are mulched with the processed fruit bunches...I imagine Florida soil to be sandy?

In a reference to Ganoderma in Malyasia, I read in a book on oilpalm :in clayey soils mulched with peat Ganoderma has a low incidence.....