DAMping off

[peachy]

Calling all clever people. I am constantly buying seedlings only to lose them a few weeks later from damping off. In the case of rare Licualas etc, this can start to get expensive. As I have some seeds about to germinate, I thought its time I asked for some expert experience in preventing this happening again. With so many grown up palms in nurseries and gardens there is obviously some trick to getting seedlings through infancy, so HELP, if not for my sake, then think of the little palm babies you will be saving. .

Peachy

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Peachy, usa of expensive fungicides and other chemicals can be a life saver. I think it's a waste of money. The best way to help seedlings get past this tender stage is to use an extremely free draining soil. I use coarse perlite, crushed lava rock, hydroponic media, and sand added to my soils to help with drainage. Be carefull with the sand, it can cause the pH levels to kill some plants. The only differnce in using such a free draining media is that you will need to pay more carefull attention to watering schedules. Things dry out quickly with all this air in the mix!

[BS Man about Palms]

Bills on it. Everything is on a case by case, but fungicides help a lot when young. The other thing I have have found is that most are overwatered. You should only water the plant when the soil is starting to dry out, NOT on a watering schedule. This can sometimes be up to two weeks on small slow guys...

[BS Man about Palms]

Bills on it. Everything is on a case by case, but fungicides help a lot when young. The other thing I have have found is that most are overwatered. You should only water the plant when the soil is starting to dry out, NOT on a watering schedule. This can sometimes be up to two weeks on small slow guys...

[Kris]

I must say its not only over watering,the humidity & coastal influence also matters in some case.So i would always recomand folks to buy readymade palms & plants.Since all can't do baby sitting beside young germinated seeds or saplings.

But for budget growers,i would recomand only chemical based fungicides,which are often 90% toxic.But works like charm.A word of caution to those having naughty kids & pets 'beware' in handling & storing those stuff very carefully.

love,

kris

[Gbarce]

I agree with what's been written so far. Keep things moist not wet and use very free draining media. Bacteria that cause damping off like wet conditions.

For seedlings I use a mix with a lot of Charcoaled Rice Hulls. I am not sure if that is readily available for you though.

Mikey who is an expert in Licualas uses pure pine bark chips. I've never tried it myself coz that's not available here but that's what mikey recommended in a post waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back.

Good luck. Licualas are very tempermental seedlings but they sure are beautiful palms.

[MattyB]

light mix is everything. Hydrogen Peroxide is cheap and will help too. Just pour it all over young tender seedlings.

[fiji jim]

Hey Matt,

What strength do you use the H2O2 ?

How often ?

It can kill too.

Jim

[LJG]

Just a side note, it is a fungus that causes this, not bacteria.

  Gbarce said:

I agree with what's been written so far. Keep things moist not wet and use very free draining media. Bacteria that cause damping off like wet conditions.

I have found this to be true too.

  Quote

Good luck. Licualas are very tempermental seedlings but they sure are beautiful palms.

[MattyB]

I use Hydrogen Peroxide full strength. It's never killed anything and I truely believe it's helped several plants pull through fungal issues. Of course, gentle bare rooting and repotting into a fresh, light mix always helps too.

[Tyrone]

Bacteria can get in on the act when a weakened plant has a fungal attack.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

Peaches,

good air movement can be pretty important too, I believe.

Stagnant air is a paradise for fungal fiends, particularly with high humidity, as Kris pointed out.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[ariscott]

The worst ones are Calyptrocalyx and Geonoma seedlings... IMO. They are so sensitive when they are THAT young...

Regards, Ari

[LJG]

So can a hundred other things when a plant is weak from fungus.

  Tyrone said:

Bacteria can get in on the act when a weakened plant has a fungal attack.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Little Palm]

Absolutely, to all comments above.

Peachy, be sure to plant the seedling/s no deeper than the base of the seed.

Happy growing,

LP

[Tyrone]

  ariscott said:

The worst ones are Calyptrocalyx and Geonoma seedlings... IMO. They are so sensitive when they are THAT young...

Regards, Ari

I totally agree with that. I kill them all. Throw in some crazy extreme weather and maybe a bit of retic malfunction and bang, dead. I've given up on those two now.

Bet regards

Tyrone

[Palmə häl′ik]

H202 can kill?

Please elaborate...

[kahili]

Ray-there are several different strengths of hydrogen perioxide. The strength that MattyB is referring to, I think, is the 3% that you can buy in the drug store and can usually be used full strength on bare roots etc. Not sure what strength H202 Jim is referring to. There is also hydrogen dioxide that is much stronger and has to be mixed with water to be used. It is sold under the name zerotol (and other names as well)

Both Pythium and rhizoctonia are common fungi that occur when germinating seeds, and both are called "damping off", which gets confusing as they require totally different fungicides to treat them, except if you are using Banrot (which is a combination of two different fungicides that will treat both of the above fungi) I am not sure but I would think that it would be pythium that would be the problem with palm seeds.

It is a very common mistake to think that the roots of a germinated seed need constant water, when in fact, its a balancing act that comes with experience-as all the above posters have found out. We have all killed newly germinated seeds with overwatering. Roots need oxygen to grow, and since they grow more at night, you want to water in the am so the soil can drain through the day and oxygen can displace the water for the night. Roots grow better in dryer soil, and young seedlings can handle dryer soil than you would think. But, as I said,its a balancing act that varies with the plant, or even the palm that you are growing, because the less roots there are (and the younger the plant), the less ability it has to handle total drying out and still recover. Thats where the well draining soil can help out immensely. Fans help as well

[Palmə häl′ik]

Hmm. You must be speaking of some type of 'medical grade' H202 or something.

The regular over the counter stuff found is 3%.

I don't see how it can damage a plant though?

or did he mean 'kill' bacteria?

[kahili]

there is a 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide, and maybe a medical strength-I don't know. I don't think that I would want to spray full strength 3% on foliage every day-its possible that there could be burning-I have never done it, so I am not sure. I usually use the hydrogen dioxide.

Hydrogen peroxide will also oxygenate the soil which is good, but again-I am not sure of the repercussions of a everyday application.

[Alberto]

Before planting my 4 germinated Juania australis seeds ,I put the well draining wet mix in a microwave for 20 minutes.

After cooling the pots I drenched the now dry soil with a solution containing strains of Trichoderma sp that is a ´´good´´fungus that is said to destroy bad fungus,at least equilibrate the soil flora....So far my little Juanias are fine....

[Mark Heath]

  Alberto said:

Before planting my 4 germinated Juania australis seeds ,I put the well draining wet mix in a microwave for 20 minutes.

After cooling the pots I drenched the now dry soil with a solution containing strains of Trichoderma sp that is a ´´good´´fungus that is said to destroy bad fungus,at least equilibrate the soil flora....So far my little Juanias are fine....

Great idea!!

Nuke the fungus!!!!

[fiji jim]

  Ray in BrandonFL said:

H202 can kill?

Please elaborate...

I would like Matt to tell us the strength of his H2O2 solution.

I know that concentrations of 20% and more are corrosive to metals and can react powerfully with other elements.

Here I have 35% that I dilute carefully for various purposes but have heard of it being used to soften hard shells of some seed and also as a presoak solution to kill any bacteria.

Hydrogen Peroxide breaks down to hydrogen and oxygen within 3 days of being added either to a hydroponic solution or a soilmix. There is no residual with it, it becomes oxygen and hydrogen gas.

Plants like h2o2 and it benefits them in 2 ways. First, it oxygenates the soil. Second, it kills microorganisms, fungus and bacteria harmful to plants. It will not harm worms. House plants and gardens thrive with h2o2 supplementing and increasing numbers of commercial farmers have added h2o2 to their inventories for their crops for this reason.

Apparently the 35% food grade is far superior to the lower quality 3% products sold in drug stores.

Suggested mix for soaking seeds is 1/2 ounce of 35% food grade per gallon water for soaking and watering.

For sprouting seeds the suggested mix is 1 ounce of 3% h2o2 to 1 pint water and to mix fresh every time you rinse the seed and change the water.

In all h2o2 is a very useful thing but its use requires some caution and i often read or hear of people using it for various purposes but rarely do they know the strength of the solution that they are using. Most important as too little is ineffective and too much can definitely cause death of some plants and also desiccate a seed.

I like the hissing and bubbling it does when applied to some fungi or rot.

Jim

[peachy]

A great big thank you to everyone who replied to my shriek for help. I can see now where I have gone wrong (way way wrong) on about 3 points at least. Armed with my new found knowledge and my very battered credit card, I can now bravely venture forth into cyberspace and start ordering seedlings again, hopefully with impunity this time.

Thanks again everyone,

Peachy