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Posted

Group,

I'd appreciate if some of you who live there would let me know what you've been able to successfully grow in the SF Peninsula area. I'm not interested so much in the bullet-proof plants like Chamaerops and Buta, but rather more interesting or different species. If you are close by, I'd like to hear of your successes as well. This would be for both full sun and protected areas. Thanks.

Phil

Jungle Music Palms and Cycads, established 1977 and located in Encinitas, CA, 20 miles north of San Diego on the Coast.  Phone:  619 2914605 Link to Phil's Email phil.bergman@junglemusic.net Website: www.junglemusic.net Link to Jungle Music Palms and Cycads

Posted

Phil, have you been to Strybing botanic garden in Golden Gate Park? There are quite a few palm species, including some of the best looking Rhopalostylis I have ever seen. There are also some Ceroxylon (coldn't get close enough to the sign to see which species), Jubaea, and others.

Resident of Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, San Diego, CA and Pahoa, HI.  Former garden in Vista, CA.  Garden Photos

Posted

Well I have seen and heard of some of these. Many were growing in Oakland, though.

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana

Archontophoenix cunninghamiana "illawara"

Acoelorraphe wrightii

Allogoptera

Arenga engleri

Arenga micrantha

Beccariophoenix alfredii

Brahea edulis (among others)

Burretiokentia hapala

Burretiokentia koghiensis

Cyphophoenix nucele

Calamus caryotoides

Chambeyronia macrocarpa

Chamaedorea costaricana

Chamaedorea (all the rest of thehardy ones)

Caryota urens

Caryota gigas

Ceroxylons

Copernicia alba

Copenicia prunifera

Dypsis decipiens

Dypsis onilahensis

Euterpe edulis

Geonoma undata

Geonoma schottiana

Gaussia maya

Hedyscepe

Howea forsteriana

Howea belmoreana

Juania australis

Laccospadix australasica

Lepidorrhachis mooreana

Livistona....

Linospadix monostachya

Licuala elegans

Oraniopsis

Parajubaea

Plectocomia himalayana

Prestoea acuminata

Pritchardia hillebrandii

Pritchardia minor

Ravenea rivularis

Rhapis

Roystonea.... borinquena?

Rhopalostylis

Sabal minor

Serenoa

Syagrus sancona

Trachycarpus....

Trithrinax

Wettinia kalbreyi

I just woke up, so there are probably a lot missing. If there were some palms that are underplanted in San Francisco, it would be Hedyscepe, Oraniopsis, Plectocomia ( :P ) , Ceroxylons, Geonoma undata, Calamus caryotoides, and Howea. They all seem to grow there without a problem and they look great! A poster on here (Arlen in Fort Bragg) grew Wettinia kalbreyi up in.... Fort Bragg, which is absolutely FREEZING, so I'm sure these palms would thrive in San Francisco, provided the city by the bay is not too hot for them. :P I know as soon as I post this I will remember another amazing palm that there are not enough of in my hometown!

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

I'm always up for learning new things!

Posted

Hi Phil,

Here are some photos of palms in San Francisco...the Strybing collection and from Darold Pettys garden. Also, take a look at the Encephalartos cycads at Strybing...I'm really surprised they are still there...and have been flushing new tops for many years.

Also, no picture of it but Darold and I were recently discussing the Dypsis baronii that has been growing in his garden for some time.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19567

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=19560

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

Posted

Thank you Gentlemen,

Scott and Justin, great photo from Strybing. Also, I note they are in full sun.

Kyle, very comprehensive list. Thank you. I would have created basically the same list but would put question marks next to Gaussia, Prestoea, and probably any Roystonea. Comments from others? Is Archontophoenix a pretty good bet up there? What about species other than cunninghamiana.

Phil

Jungle Music Palms and Cycads, established 1977 and located in Encinitas, CA, 20 miles north of San Diego on the Coast.  Phone:  619 2914605 Link to Phil's Email phil.bergman@junglemusic.net Website: www.junglemusic.net Link to Jungle Music Palms and Cycads

Posted

Hey Phil! I included the Roystonea because Jim in Los Altos has had some growing in his yard for some years. I forget the species he was growing, however. Darold Petty has a Prestoea acuminata growing in his yard too. I was shocked to see it!

I'm always up for learning new things!

Posted

Kyle,

Good to hear of those successes. What about different species of Archontophoenix? Any experience anyone?

Phil

Jungle Music Palms and Cycads, established 1977 and located in Encinitas, CA, 20 miles north of San Diego on the Coast.  Phone:  619 2914605 Link to Phil's Email phil.bergman@junglemusic.net Website: www.junglemusic.net Link to Jungle Music Palms and Cycads

Posted

Jim's Roystonia is a borinquena and it looked great as of the last picture he shared with us.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
Kyle,

Good to hear of those successes. What about different species of Archontophoenix? Any experience anyone?

Phil

We sell Inge's Hardy King here, as well as the standard A. cunninghamiana. Occasionally we sell A. cunninghamiana 'Illawara'. I only recommend the standard king for wind-protected locations with minimal frost. Wind and minimal heat can be a problem for kings. Illawara grows steadily in the cool summers, but has no greater frost tolerance. We talk to gardeners about Inge's Hardy King having *potentially* greater hardiness, shown as seedlings in the 2007 frost. Thus, it could be a better bet for the warmer/colder zones around the bay, outside the banana belts of Oakland, Belvedere/Tiburon, and Sunset Zone 16, but this remains to be seen as the seedlings develop.

A. alexandrae does not really work here. A. purpurea is very slow and frost tender. I don't know about any other Archontos here.

Jason Dewees

Inner Sunset District

San Francisco, California

Sunset zone 17

USDA zone 10a

21 inches / 530mm annual rainfall, mostly October to April

Humidity averages 60 to 85 percent year-round.

Summer: 67F/55F | 19C/12C

Winter: 56F/44F | 13C/6C

40-year extremes: 96F/26F | 35.5C/-3.8C

Posted

The problem in San Francisco is a lack of garden space. It's a city of town houses with houses built side by side, touching each other and very little garden space. Most houses are built right up to the sidewalk with small gardens in the back. There is no telling what palms might be lurking in these gardens but they can't be seen from the street.

San Francisco could have many more palms than it does, but there is still a bias about palms in the City. There are many Phoenix growing in San Francisco, and in recent years Syagrus R. is poping up all over the city. A few Howeas in a small garden could transform it to look like a tropical paradise, but I know of no such place in San Francisco.

I still think Parajubaeas are the palm of the future for San Francisco and much of the bay area where frost is uncommon, but they are not readily available and most people don't know about them.

Dick

Richard Douglas

  • 1 year later...
Posted

Rhopalostylis, Ceroxylon, Brahea edulis, and Chamaedorea(good for smaller spacers in city) should be more common in the cooler Sunset 16 and 17 areas of the bay. Would be nice to see more Sabals and Braheas (especially B. nitida) in the warmer zones 14, 15, and the more inland 8 and 9. In the warmer corners Butias also seem strangely absent especially considering their abundance in SoCal and USDA 8b Gulf Coast and North Florida. Link to Bay Area Palm Map. And of course Parajubaeas, Mules, and the hardier Ravenea glauca, Dypsis onilahensis and, D. decipiens could tropical the look of the Bay area very nicely.

Posted

Thank you Gentlemen,

Scott and Justin, great photo from Strybing. Also, I note they are in full sun.

Kyle, very comprehensive list. Thank you. I would have created basically the same list but would put question marks next to Gaussia, Prestoea, and probably any Roystonea. Comments from others? Is Archontophoenix a pretty good bet up there? What about species other than cunninghamiana.

Phil

Our climate is similar, Prestoea acuminata is an easy grow (once in-ground) requiring little heat but Roystonea and Gaussia require an exceptional microclimate and excellent soil. A super surprising palm which seems to make progress is Clinotigma savoryanum.

Posted

Kyle,

Good to hear of those successes. What about different species of Archontophoenix? Any experience anyone?

Phil

We sell Inge's Hardy King here, as well as the standard A. cunninghamiana. Occasionally we sell A. cunninghamiana 'Illawara'. I only recommend the standard king for wind-protected locations with minimal frost. Wind and minimal heat can be a problem for kings. Illawara grows steadily in the cool summers, but has no greater frost tolerance. We talk to gardeners about Inge's Hardy King having *potentially* greater hardiness, shown as seedlings in the 2007 frost. Thus, it could be a better bet for the warmer/colder zones around the bay, outside the banana belts of Oakland, Belvedere/Tiburon, and Sunset Zone 16, but this remains to be seen as the seedlings develop.

A. alexandrae does not really work here. A. purpurea is very slow and frost tender. I don't know about any other Archontos here.

Inge's Hardy King ? What the hell is that ? :blink:

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

Posted

Kyle,

Good to hear of those successes. What about different species of Archontophoenix? Any experience anyone?

Phil

We sell Inge's Hardy King here, as well as the standard A. cunninghamiana. Occasionally we sell A. cunninghamiana 'Illawara'. I only recommend the standard king for wind-protected locations with minimal frost. Wind and minimal heat can be a problem for kings. Illawara grows steadily in the cool summers, but has no greater frost tolerance. We talk to gardeners about Inge's Hardy King having *potentially* greater hardiness, shown as seedlings in the 2007 frost. Thus, it could be a better bet for the warmer/colder zones around the bay, outside the banana belts of Oakland, Belvedere/Tiburon, and Sunset Zone 16, but this remains to be seen as the seedlings develop.

A. alexandrae does not really work here. A. purpurea is very slow and frost tender. I don't know about any other Archontos here.

Inge's Hardy King ? What the hell is that ? :blink:

It's a name for plants descended from a tree in Inge Hoffmann's garden in San Leandro, California, near Oakland, San Jose & San Francisco, California. Inge was the longtime IPS Seed Bank hub and later a private seed dealer.

Inge's tree survived our worst recent freeze, that of December, 1990, when temperatures reached below freezing for at least a week, hitting an extreme low of at least -5C/23F. It recovered and produced plentiful seed with no other nearby Archontophoenix in her neighborhood.

Inge collected seed that spawned this specimen from an undocumented population of Archontophoenix cunninghamiana near Atherton Tableland, growing near but not appearing to hybridize with other Archontophoenix species. She was as astonished as anyone to find A. cunninghamiana so far from its range, and was even more surprised that her sole surviving king palm came from this batch of seed.

Inge's name for it is Atherton Tableland Cunninghamiana. No pleasure for her in being honored by the name Inge's Hardy King.

The seedlings showed greater frost tolerance than undifferentiated Archontophoenix cunninghamiana seedlings during a cold spell in January 2007. They are a bit slower-growing in our area than 'Illawarra' and undifferentiated A. c..

Jason Dewees

Inner Sunset District

San Francisco, California

Sunset zone 17

USDA zone 10a

21 inches / 530mm annual rainfall, mostly October to April

Humidity averages 60 to 85 percent year-round.

Summer: 67F/55F | 19C/12C

Winter: 56F/44F | 13C/6C

40-year extremes: 96F/26F | 35.5C/-3.8C

Posted

Kyle:

I now have a second residence here and am quite familiar with Gaussia spp. in Mexico, Central America and the Greater Antilles and grow maya and sp. nov aff. gomez-pompae in Guatemala. Am frankly flabbergasted that one is on your list, but anything's possible with enough Hopium.

Was at Strybing as recently as three weeks ago and people here are tripping if they think that the African cycads there (some reputedly originating from USDA/USFWS confiscations at SFO Intnl.) are thriving. Most of their cycads are cold-burned, sad cripples that I wouldn't accept as a gift. Ceroxylons looked like crap the last time I was there as well...they have serious nutritional issues for many canopyscape palms at the park and apparent funding problems that make it unlikely that these issues will be resolved via fertilization. Then again, to say that the Strybing is vastly overrated as a BG is a wild understatement. It's very second string. GGP Conservatory of Flowers? Different critter altogether.

There are probably a number of Andean, temperate Oz and high-elevation Asian palms and cycads that would do OK here but not in general cultivation in the Bay Area (e.g. Chamaedorea woodsoniana, many cool-growing Macrozamia spp., Cycas panzihuaensis and some of the montane "bamboo" Cycas spp.). IMO, palm & cycad people interested in diversity would be better off focussing on smaller spp. that do well as potted specimens that can be sheltered when weather for subtropicals/tropicals sucks (= most of the year). I have very esoteric, challenging stuff like Geonoma epetiolata and Calyptrocalyx sp. "Kainlas" thriving here in a townhouse...they will never see the great outdoors in the fall, spring and winter.

Cheers,

J

Posted

Unless global warming reaches the dinosaur age level, the Bay Area will just stay as a frontier for palms and tropical plants. For a lot of us local palm enthusiasts, we have learned to accept what we have and count our blessings. We can not grow any of the ultra-tropicals or even many of the subtropicals outdoors, but we have a little niche with cool tolerant, cloud forest plants. FM Jason (JasonD) actually helped propagate many more species of cloud forest palms and cycads for Strybing. They are still under shelter at the onsite nursery but will hopefully be planted out in the near future. For heat loving palms and African cycads, UC Botanical Garden has much healthier specimens due to its warmer micro-climate.

As for local heroic palms, we have Darold Petty's Geonoma undata, Dick Douglas' Butia X Parajubaea, quite a number of Juania australis in several gardens, and a pair of mature Jubaea chilensis in Shinn Park in Fremont that are said to be the largest in California. Other tropicals I have spotted flourishing around the Bay Area include Ficus religiosa, Alcantarea imperalis, Inga edulis, Ficus dammaropsis, Fouquieria columnaris, Cassia leptophylla, and Bauhinia blakeana. During lunch on Friday, I saw several Chorisia speciosa in full glorious bloom at a Target store parking lot in Cupertino. Now many of these are common in Southern California or anywhere more tropical, but the point is that these plants can be grown here, which means a lot of other tropicals should be trialed. I do agree with the container culture suggestion since it is at least easy to keep the cold winter rain off. Also just by pulling them against house walls, 5-10F extra can be added to the minimum temperature, which can be the difference between life and death.

BTW, fall is usually quite balmy in the Bay Area, especially for San Francisco. The forecast highs for the next three days for my city Mountain View are 85F, 90F, and 81F, even warmer than L.A. or San Diego. All the tropicals I have are making a last push of growth before the winter set in in a few more weeks.

Fragrant Hill Design

www.fragranthill.com

Mountain View, California

Posted

A few more I can throw in:

Acrocomia aculeata

Dypsis decaryi, kingali, mayotte

Kentiopsis oliviformis

Lytocaryum weddellianum

Pritchardia napaliensis

Ravenea glauca, hildebrandtii

Syagrus ruschianam,picrophylla ...

  • 2 years later...
Posted

Bump!

Must add dypsis ambositrae to the list. This one keeps growing through cooler weather, very similar in temperature requirements as dypsis decipiens. Same with several of the betafaka forms. Dypsis slick willie is also dynamite.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Just remember to watch the microclimates. 100F Silicon Valley is down the road a bit from 70F San Francisco. Add places like Stockton . . .

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted

Just remember to watch the microclimates. 100F Silicon Valley is down the road a bit from 70F San Francisco. Add places like Stockton . . .

West San Francisco 60F

Mission District 70F

Atherton: 75F

Palo Alto 77F

Mountain View 80F

Cupertino 83F

Los Gatos 87F

That's about the level of warming of Summer averages as you go in a straight line down the peninsula.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Just remember to watch the microclimates. 100F Silicon Valley is down the road a bit from 70F San Francisco. Add places like Stockton . . .

West San Francisco 60F

Mission District 70F

Atherton: 75F

Palo Alto 77F

Mountain View 80F

Cupertino 83F

Los Gatos 87F

That's about the level of warming of Summer averages as you go in a straight line down the peninsula.

Those may be averages.

I've experienced much hotter, which can matter to those cool-loving palms, like Geonoma.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted

Having moved to a cooler area, though not as cool as San Francisco, I'm enjoying reading the info on this thread. Does San Francisco get extremely windy weather at all? Windy winters?

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Posted

Having moved to a cooler area, though not as cool as San Francisco, I'm enjoying reading the info on this thread. Does San Francisco get extremely windy weather at all? Windy winters?

Oh yeah, it's windy alright, but not often below 7C in the Winter. Lots of beautiful sunny days in the 15-16C range but also lots of gray, rainy days. In the Sunset district where Darold lives, Winter is June-August, and the astronomical Winter in December is actually warmer. But in the Mission, Summers are quite pleasant and in the 19-21C range during the day.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Thanks Axel. Is that 7C max or 7C min.

The biggest thing I'm coming to grips with in my new location is the wind. At night it's virtually still, but the wind picks up once the day progresses and can almost come from any direction. It's a 4 seasons in one day location. The Roystonea borinquena in San Francisco is what gave me courage to try one here. Early days though. We're entering winter now and had a 6.4C night with blue skies for the day. So far 19-21C during the day but that's not normal for here.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Posted

Min temps are generally above 7C in the Winter in SF.

Welcome to the four seasons in one day, word of warning, roystonea really hate this kind of climate. Jim in Los Altos so far is the only one I've ever heard of who's grown a roystonea for as long as seven years anywhere in the Bay area. I know of someone who hauled a 30" roystonea box from Southern California in his front yard in Gilroy. It's super hot there during the Summer, but super cold in the Winter. It's basically a deciduous palm for him, i.e. it completely defoliates, but by September it regrows its crown thanks to the hot Summers.

Keep us posted on how your palms fare. I am very curious on what works and what doesn't.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Over the years, the list of possibilities has continued to grow. I wish I had more room to experiment but I am managing to squeeze new palms where space opens up as other palms grow up. I love understory gardening. I'm up to 116 separate species and am expecting another Floribunda delivery to add to that list. A few years ago, I never would have dreamt I'd have over 300 palms in my smallish garden. This hobby definitely becomes an obsession.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Posted

Jim - maybe have Phil add lemurophoenix to the list? haha

:)

Posted

Here's an updated list, my climate is similar to Palo Alto in heat accumulation. Some of these won't work in specific microclimates due to excessive Winter frost.

Archontophoenix all species, main limiting factor is Winter frost only

Acoelorraphe wrightii
Allagoptera arenaria

Allagoptera caudescens
Arenga micrantha
Beccariophoenix alfredii

Bismarckia nobilis (Too slow North of Redwood City)
Brahea all species

Burretiokentia hapala (Too slow North of Redwood City)

Burretiokentia koghiensis

Butia all species
Cyphophoenix nucele
Calamus caryotoides
Chambeyronia macrocarpa (Too slow North of Redwood City)
Chamaedorea (long list, whatever is hardy enough)
Caryota urens
Caryota gigas

Cryosophila stauracantha (Too slow North of Redwood City)

Cryosophila warscewiczii (Too slow North of Redwood City)

Ceroxylons
Chuniophoenix all species

Dypsis decipiens

Dypsis baronii

Dypsis ambositrae

Dypsis decaryi

Dypsis psammophila

Dypsis slick willy (Too slow North of Redwood City)
Dypsis onilahensis (except upright form)
Euterpe edulis
Geonoma undata
Gaussia maya

Guihaia argyrata (South of Redwood City only)
Hedyscepe
Howea forsteriana
Howea belmoreana

Jubaea chilensis

Jubaeopsis caffra (South of San Mateo only)
Juania australis
Laccospadix australasica
Lepidorrhachis mooreana
Livistona australis

Livistona chinensis

Livistona decora

Livistona drudei

Livistona fulva

Livistona lanuginosa (South of redwood City only)

Livistona mariae/rigida (South of redwood City only)

Livistona nitida

Livistona saribus green teeth
Linospadix monostachya
Licuala elegans

Licuala ramsayi

Lytocaryum weddellianum

Lytocaryum hoehnei

Nannorrhops ritchiana (South of redwood City only)

Nannorrhops arabica (South of redwood City only)
Oraniopsis
Parajubaea all

Phoenix all species
Plectocomia himalayana
Prestoea acuminata
Pritchardia (Hawaiian species > 2,000 feet)

Ravenea glauca

Ravenea rivularis

Ravenea Hildebrandtii

Rhapis all species
Rhopalostylis all species
Sabal all species except perhaps yapa

Serenoa
Syagrus sancona - difficult to get started, but big specimens work

Syagrus picrophylla

Syagrus schizophylla

Syagrus romanzoffiana

Synechanthus fibrosus

Trachycarpus all species
Trithrinax all species

Washingtonia (all species)
Wettinia kalbreyi

The following are extremely slow and not at all viable except maybe in the hottest microclimates. Mine don't grow much at all and don't seem worth the trouble. I get one frond a year on most of these, the copernicia tend to grow in flushes and only during heat waves, and are stagnant the rest of the time. I bet some of these would do well in Mountain View and southward where they can benefit of some hot Summer weather. But for most of the Peninsula these would be no gos.

Copernicia alba - only grows when daytime temps are above 80F, hardy and great for inland Norcal

Copenicia prunifera - only grows when daytime temps are above 80F, hardy and great for inland Norcal

Arenga engleri - only grows when daytime temps are above 80F, hardy and great for inland Norcal

Cyphophoenix elegans, super slow, one frond every 2.5 years North of Redwood City, maybe one every 1.5 years south of Redwood City

Roystonea borinquena and others work only in the hottest microclimates with least Winter frost, so super rare microclimate

syagrus coronata - about as slow as it gets, no growth at all under 75F.

Dypsis heteromorpha - slow as molasses, needs mega heat

These are not viable because they decline in cool wet Winter soil even if they can take the cooler air temperatures:

Geonoma schottiana - rots in the Winter, maybe a protected spot in SF

Dypsis Lastelliana highland form - roots rot in cool soil

dictyocaryum lamarckianum - rapid decline under 40F temps

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Axel, you are too pessimistic about Cyphophoenix elegans. Mine grew a leaf every 2.5 years ! :floor:

San Francisco, California

Posted

Axel, you are too pessimistic about Cyphophoenix elegans. Mine grew a leaf every 2.5 years ! :floor:

I just got to edit that in time. :) Who ended up with your elegans? I need to find a home for some of my slow growers.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Axel, you are too pessimistic about Cyphophoenix elegans. Mine grew a leaf every 2.5 years ! :floor:

I just got to edit that in time. :) Who ended up with your elegans? I need to find a home for some of my slow growers.

If you are looking for things that just need more heat, Axel, I can provide a willing home. :winkie:

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

Posted

Jim - maybe have Phil add lemurophoenix to the list? haha

:)

Third month in the ground and lookin' fine. It must be a Nor Cal palm. Who knows, maybe it will naturalize. :) Don't forget the Marojejya darianii I planted three months ago. It's sending out a new spear as we speak so it will definitely be a long term palm up here in the this winter chill zone.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Posted

Min temps are generally above 7C in the Winter in SF.

Welcome to the four seasons in one day, word of warning, roystonea really hate this kind of climate. Jim in Los Altos so far is the only one I've ever heard of who's grown a roystonea for as long as seven years anywhere in the Bay area. I know of someone who hauled a 30" roystonea box from Southern California in his front yard in Gilroy. It's super hot there during the Summer, but super cold in the Winter. It's basically a deciduous palm for him, i.e. it completely defoliates, but by September it regrows its crown thanks to the hot Summers.

Keep us posted on how your palms fare. I am very curious on what works and what doesn't.

Statistically my winter mins are 8-9C on average. Daytime winter max's are 16-17C. Summer is 15-17C min avg, and summers are 23-25C max avg, with some days in the 30's. Humidity is always high. My Roystonea is planted on the island in my main lake in full summer sun. It can get quite hot and humid here in summer. This morning we've got down to 5.4C and are going for 21C with blue skies. There's mist on the lake at the moment. I'm hoping to never see frost here, but if we do it will be very light and the island will be the last place to see any frost due to the large volume of water surrounding it. My R b is in a holding pattern right now. It's green but stopped. A big experiment really.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

Posted

Nah, should be OK Tyrone. Certainly don't give up on one failure.

Posted

Axel, you are too pessimistic about Cyphophoenix elegans. Mine grew a leaf every 2.5 years ! :floor:

I just got to edit that in time. :) Who ended up with your elegans? I need to find a home for some of my slow growers.

If you are looking for things that just need more heat, Axel, I can provide a willing home. :winkie:

I am always keen to trade. I betcha those copernicia would do great at your place, your place gets plenty of Summer heat. If you have something interesting that grows in my neck of the woods, I'd be willing to trade.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

  • 5 weeks later...
Posted

Gaussia maya somehow made it on this list, is this really a cool grower? Someone gave me a dozen seedlings, and they're pretty strong growers so far but I am having serious doubts that this is a viable palm for anywhere in the state. I've never seen one grown in Southern California and Geoff's report is pretty discouraging.

maybe DoomsDave can chime in, he's posted some freeze reports on this one.

Axel at the Mauna Kea Cloudforest Bioreserve

On Mauna Kea above Hilo. Koeppen Zone Cfb (Montane Tropical Cloud Forest), USDA Hardiness Zone 11b/12a, AHS Heat zone 1 (max 78F), annual rainfall: 130-180", Soil pH 5.

Click here for our current conditions: KHIHILO25

Posted

Chamaedorea benziei has surprised me with its strong growth. It has grown, flowered, and possibly set seed over last winter.

C. costaricana has grown quickly, despite the absence of summer warmth.

Dypsis baronii is the only Dypsis to grow well for me. I will soon post pictures in Tyrone's thread.

San Francisco, California

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Just remember to watch the microclimates. 100F Silicon Valley is down the road a bit from 70F San Francisco. Add places like Stockton . . .

West San Francisco 60F

Mission District 70F

Atherton: 75F

Palo Alto 77F

Mountain View 80F

Cupertino 83F

Los Gatos 87F

That's about the level of warming of Summer averages as you go in a straight line down the peninsula.

This is a perfect summary!

Jason Dewees

Inner Sunset District

San Francisco, California

Sunset zone 17

USDA zone 10a

21 inches / 530mm annual rainfall, mostly October to April

Humidity averages 60 to 85 percent year-round.

Summer: 67F/55F | 19C/12C

Winter: 56F/44F | 13C/6C

40-year extremes: 96F/26F | 35.5C/-3.8C

Posted

Having moved to a cooler area, though not as cool as San Francisco, I'm enjoying reading the info on this thread. Does San Francisco get extremely windy weather at all? Windy winters?

SF's persistent westerly winds are worst from late March into May, often measuring 40 kph - 48 kph, continuing into mid-September at 25 kph for many hours every afternoon--all day near the ocean and Golden Gate. October can be still and serene. Winter brings alternating still and stormy weather, with southerly gales reaching 65 kph several times a season, and post-frontal northwesterlies commonly hitting 48 kph - 56 kph. The extreme winds to be expected every 15 - 20 years are 110 kph or so.

By the ocean here in the city, there are few plants that actually look healthy besides native coastal scrub (including shrubs/shrublets like Lupinus arboreus, Artemisia californica, Baccharis pilularis, Ceanothus thyrsiflorus, Heteromeles arbutifolia, Frangula californica, Mimulus aurantiacus), and even those can look piqued in habitat. Trees like Monterey Cypress, Pittosporum crassifolium, Myoporum laetum, and Metrosideros excelsa are a few good exotic ornamentals. Chamaerops humilis palms hold up reasonably well.

Jason Dewees

Inner Sunset District

San Francisco, California

Sunset zone 17

USDA zone 10a

21 inches / 530mm annual rainfall, mostly October to April

Humidity averages 60 to 85 percent year-round.

Summer: 67F/55F | 19C/12C

Winter: 56F/44F | 13C/6C

40-year extremes: 96F/26F | 35.5C/-3.8C

Posted

Just remember to watch the microclimates. 100F Silicon Valley is down the road a bit from 70F San Francisco. Add places like Stockton . . .

West San Francisco 60F

Mission District 70F

Atherton: 75F

Palo Alto 77F

Mountain View 80F

Cupertino 83F

Los Gatos 87F

That's about the level of warming of Summer averages as you go in a straight line down the peninsula.

I've experienced 99F in Palo Alto and WSF 60 in a day. Maybe an outlier, but it still illustrates.

  • Like 1

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