Geonoma epetiolata

[brodklop]

This a colourful understory palm. Is anyone growing this successfully.

Here a few shots I managed to find

[Jeff Searle]

Brod,

This palm has turned out to be such a hard palm to grow for most everyone. It's requirements are very strict. On one of my collecting trips to Costa Rica back in the early nineties, I went to it's habitat and was really blown away by such a unique palm. There's really no other palm in the world that exhibits so many colors, not even Pinanga veitchii.

I've never seen seed offered before either. I once had another friend of mine bring some seed back, I germinated most of them, but then slowly watched them one by one dampened off.

Jeff

[brodklop]

Thanks Jeff for your reply.

I guess we have to be content to see it in situ or look at photos

Regards

Brod

[Darold Petty]

Hi Brod, I second all that Jeff described about this species. I saw them in habitat in Costa Rica in 2001 and collected a few seeds. They all slowly died. The location was a private eco-tourism resort called Rara Avis. At that time, it was a run-down, under-capitalized facility. Apparently, it is still in business, perhaps it has been upgraded.

[Jeff in Costa Rica]

Brod, I keep hoping to find one in an obscure nursery somewhere around here but so far no luck. That would definitely be the ultimate acquisition for me.

[Gbarce]

Jeff go out smf explore the jungles-- if you find seeds give me some !!!

[Jeff in Costa Rica]

Gene, I see myself acquiring this palm at some point. I'll keep you in mind.

[ariscott]

Geonoma is a hard genus to grow to begin with... I have seen a few seedlings of mine just dampened off without any reason (not that species... of course).

Regards, Ari

[Mandrew968]

First off, this palm needs to be kept in the dark--even bright indirect light will kill it. Second, the soil is poor in habitat and there is talk that it gets some nutrients through the debris/litter that gathers in the crown. The new leaves are completely lacking in chlorophyll. If you dare, keep it dark, keep it moist, and keep it not too cold, and not too hot--Bueno Suerte!

Edited April 7, 2011 by Mandrew968

[Jeff Searle]

Boy, the expert has spoken! I'm glad to hear your having good success. How about a picture?

[LJG]

First off, this palm needs to be kept in the dark--even bright indirect light will kill it. Second, the soil is poor in habitat and there is talk that it gets some nutrients through the debris/litter that gathers in the crown. The new leaves are completely lacking in chlorophyll. If you dare, keep it dark, keep it moist, and keep it not too cold, and not too hot--Bueno Suerte!

Are you actually growing this palm? Do you have any pictures? I am thinking about getting a few but I am hoping to get some growing tips from people growing it first. In talking to Marcus and a few others, this is one tough plant to grow.

I remember reading a few years back in the journal the new leaf does have chlorophyll, just very little until it opens.

[XYZ]

Yes, I have a fair number of near-flowering-sized seed-grown plants (also from seed grown stock generated from WC palms grown in a private collection in Panamá) growing here in Guatemala. I intend to move much of this colony to a closed facility at my brother's home in northern California later this year, together with some other regional palms. I have seen fairly good numbers of this species in both range countries and, together with regional Chamaedorea specialist Ing. Juan José Castillo Mont, rediscovered it at the type locality in 2007, where it was reputed to be locally extinct.

- They are, indeed, very challenging to grow outside of range countries, and appear to be susceptible to root rot when kept too wet, even in well-drained media. Nonetheless, anyone with a cool greenhouse, a green thumb and a willingness to spend some money on their acquisition and upkeep should be able to succeed with them.

- Pure water, preferably RODI or rain, is pretty much a sine qua non for succeeding with this species. Like many of these small geos, they require a very light hand with regard to fertilization. I use very dilute fish emulsion and chelated iron drenches every month or so, couple with a very light top-dressing of balance osmocote every six mos or so.

- Contrary to urban myth and even published accounts such as the one in "Palms" a couple years back, they do quite well in very bright shade, and certainly can recover their leaf color and contrasting maculation if grown in too much light. I find that cool, dark, damp conditions will kill them as dead as charity in short order. Conversely, well-ventilated, buoyant environments with reasonably high RHs appear to be much appreciated. The two or three that I have tried indoors succeeded superbly right up until when they suddenly died. Like other delicate palmlets, too low an RH a emerging spear stage will cause "sticking" and subsequent malformation of the new leaf.

- I have found that there is a surprising amount of variation in terms of emergent color, even within a given ecotype. Like some pinangas, new leaf color can also be influenced by nutrition, or lack thereof.

- IME, fruits are often parthenocarpic, seed viability is fugacious, seed seems often to be infertile, and newly-hatched seedlings are often incredibly challenging. A number of very well-known and presumably competent US botanical gardens have germinated wild-collected seed of this species and have had Jeff Searle's disheartening experience with them in the early stages.

- It is my understanding that, so far, there has only been a handful of seed produced by captives in Queensland and Hawaii, but a fair amount generated in Panamá. Lankester Garden in CRica may also have produced artificially-propagated seed by now.

- While the smaller geos are often not easy, I wouldn't consider them particularly challenging to grow under the right conditions.

- Rara Avis is a PRIVATE RESERVE. Both Amistad reserves comprise a large cross-border CentrAm park. Omar Torrijos National Park (outed for God-knows-what-reason in the "Palms" article) is a priority protected area in Panamá. People who collect seeds and plants without permission at these localities are plant poachers, pure and simple. This is not the first time I've read posts here about people stealing plants and seeds throughout the tropics. Personally, I could give a good-goddamn about the private foibles of Palmtalk participants, but the IPS needs to get on the ball with regard to this issue or risk choking on its hypocritical stand on "conservation".

Will post some pics when I have a moment.

J

Edited April 7, 2011 by stone jaguar

[XYZ]

For the benefit of sceptics, I had these on the computer here at the office.

Some seedlings in March of '07.

Tray of seedlings in May of '09.

Some greenhoused plants a year ago, grown under well-lit conditions.

Newly-emergent leaf on mediocre clone.

BTW - Geonoma atrovirens from the Chocó is, IMO, almost as beautiful a palmlet. For those unfamiliar with it, imagine a cross between a Joey and Calyptrocalyx sp. "Kainlas". Delicate, extremly rare in cultivation (still) but not as challenging as G. epetiolata and definitely much faster-growing.

J

Edited April 7, 2011 by stone jaguar

[Darold Petty]

Stone Jaguar; My wife and I visited Rara Avis in September of 2001. It was advertised as a private, for-profit eco-lodge, not a botanical reserve. The staff did not have the advertised means to transport us from the public highway to the lodge, so we walked (from memory, only a few miles). The facility did not have available the advertised hot, running water: and the on-site staff consisted of a guide and a cook. While walking one of the trails with the guide, I admired this palm and asked him if I could take a few seeds. He told me this was no problem, and I brought 9 seeds home. I'm sorry that I was mis-informed by the Rara Avis employee.

[Mandrew968]

Boy, the expert has spoken! I'm glad to hear your having good success. How about a picture?

Jeff, if your all that interested, I've got some REALLY good prices for ya!

[Mandrew968]

Stone Jaguar--Awesome photos! I'll be traveling back to Guate, come September

[XYZ]

Darold:

Like I said and barring pedophilia, I could care less what people do on their travels overseas, it's just that this particular society holds itself to be a leading light with regard to palm conservation, yet there is plenty of evidence on this forum that members routinely bend the rules when visiting other countries or collections that have pretty clear regulations with regard to collecting plants and/or seed. While I disagree with the uneven application of many of these laws, I think that it is in our collective best interest as horticulturists to seek legal (and even more than legal, ethical) sources for our plants wherever possible. Having people who have invested a lot of time and effort in conserving a key, high-diversity locality anywhere in the Developing World roll their eyes and start counting the silver every time a palm or orchid aficionado comes through the door is hardly conducive to us building bridges to the environmental conservation community.

Sorry that apparently a Rara Avis employee misinformed you regarding their long-standing policies about collecting flora and fauna on the property. FYI, it is my understanding that they have thrown any number of people off the property for poaching since they were outed as a prime CRican locality for this species, with resultant unwanted attention paid to them by foreign plant collectors. There is another private reserve in Costa Rica that has had similar experiences since their name was linked online to this palm. My 2009 conversations with park staff at Omar Torrijos confirm that - perhaps coincidentally (or not) - older Geonoma epetiolata and Chamaedorea amabilis once visible near main trails were removed by persons unknown from the park subsequent to publication of the 2007 "Palms" article that clearly identified this park as a locality where they are available in a poorly-policed venue. The aftermath of the cycad conference in Panamá a couple years back also marked a nadir in presumably responsible people's behavior with regard to collecting native palms and cycads.

¿Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? We should hold ourselves to the same standards we set for others.

Best regards,

J

[Dypsisdean]

Jay,

What is your opinion as to the elevation tolerances of this species? More specifically, do you think this is one of those species that prefers the slight evening cooling of submontane environments as opposed to the warmer tropical nights of near sea level?

[ariscott]

Jay,

Good looking seedlings... Geonoma is a still a big no-no for me. My shadehouse gets plenty of water in the wet season, unfortunately. If I have to take them out and put them under cover to try to minimise exposure to rain, it will be a big task for me.... Otherwise, it is like a borneo jungle in there complete with weeds - it has its own microclimate. It looks shocking but plants are growing well... except Geonoma. How long before they get tougher?

Regards, Ari

[LJG]

Boy, the expert has spoken! I'm glad to hear your having good success. How about a picture?

Jeff, if your all that interested, I've got some REALLY good prices for ya!

Do you actually grow this plant? You seemed to have missed my question. Thanks!

[Jeff Searle]

Boy, the expert has spoken! I'm glad to hear your having good success. How about a picture?

Jeff, if your all that interested, I've got some REALLY good prices for ya!

I guess you didn't bother, but maybe you should consider re-reading my last sentence in post #2.

[Geoff]

I cannot add a dang thing about how to grow this palm, but it obviously likes Hawaii as two growers on the big island have great examples (one is on 'autopilot'- no one even living on the this property that does anything more than pick up dead leaves (Sullivan property).

Marcus has a nice one, too, last time a visited, though not so colorful

[Gbarce]

Geoff-those are stunning photos!!

Here are a couple of my seedling

I unintentionally have been keeping them on the dry side which I guess is good. lost only 1 of 5 so far

[Gbarce]

hopefully this one survives. I get nervous when I see brown leaf tips

[XYZ]

Jay,

What is your opinion as to the elevation tolerances of this species? More specifically, do you think this is one of those species that prefers the slight evening cooling of submontane environments as opposed to the warmer tropical nights of near sea level?

Dean:

These palms are actually much more a lowland species than a denizen of cloud forests. That having been said, they do tend to be most common in foothill forests where you have some slippage of cold area into their micro-habitats during the evenings of the cooler months. Mine have tolerated evening temps down to about 6-7 degrees C (roughly 43-45 F) but can't say that they are visibly happy when cold. Def. more a tropical taxon that has very specific light, water, ventilation and nutrient regimens required to thrive...that individual plants may do well under suboptimal conditions for lengthy periods is not surprising, but that doesn't mean that one day they won't also just up and hand in their lunch bucket with startling suddenness, as is the rule with unhappy epetiolata.

Finest plants that I have seen outside of Guatemala and Panamá are held at a private collection in northern Queensland, where they can achieve leaf colors that are breathtaking.

J

[garrin]

Stone Jaguar; My wife and I visited Rara Avis in September of 2001. It was advertised as a private, for-profit eco-lodge, not a botanical reserve. The staff did not have the advertised means to transport us from the public highway to the lodge, so we walked (from memory, only a few miles). The facility did not have available the advertised hot, running water: and the on-site staff consisted of a guide and a cook. While walking one of the trails with the guide, I admired this palm and asked him if I could take a few seeds. He told me this was no problem, and I brought 9 seeds home. I'm sorry that I was mis-informed by the Rara Avis employee.

It appears here to me that Darold Petty did all he could do at the time he collected a few seeds at Rara Avis to clear his way to taking those few seeds of this palm. To preach to Darold on this topic is like "preaching to the choir". Darold has personally done an exceedingly good and successful job of growing domestic seed sources for high elevation cool growing palms. And as far as I know he has never taken anything from a reserve or private property without the permission from someone with the most authority on site. Thanks to Darold there are many palms now growing in the cool San Francisco and northern CA climates which were on the edge of endangerment or even disappearance in habitat, always collecting from cultivated specimens or with permission. We in the palm world really owe Darold our great gratitude for providing new seed source material from outside the natural habitats. I have traveled with Darold on a lot of his visits to tropical palm sites in both hemispheres, and he is a great example of a palm conservator.