Fungus/White fly. Help!

[Bags]

I came home from vacation a week ago to find a Baueri with most of its fronds dead. I treated it with fungicide and figured it is probably done. Then I walked outside this AM to many of my palms on either side with many of their leaves turning black. This all happened over night! I am afraid everything will be dead in a few days. Any advice is appreciated. I plan on treating with Cleary's fungicide and need to get something for the white flys.

Here are some pictures of the carnage.

Baueri.

[Bags]

Next to it is a R. Chatham Island with some black leaves and white fly.

[Bags]

More black leaves on many palms. I can not find that many white flys so I am not sure if they are related.

close up

Any advice is greatly appreciated. At this point I am considering taking out the infected plants. Thanks, Aaron

[DoomsDave]

You certainly have a bad attack of what looks like wooly whitefly. Hibiscus at my place are constantly bedeviled by it, though none have died. You palm looks sad, and I'd say you have an emergency.

You could knock them back with acephate, but it won't get rid of them completely, equiring repeat applications, and it will smell nasty. Don't waste your money on SEVIN or malathion. You need nasty stuff, alas.

[DoomsDave]

THe black on your fingers looks like sooty mold from honeydew secreted by the whiteflies. (Honeydew is sticky sap full of excess sugar excreted by the bugs). Sooty mold with wash off with water, or a very mild soap solution.

[Bags]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I should add that I can only find white fly on one of the palms and only on a few leaves of that palm so I am not sure that is the cause.

[DoomsDave]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I should add that I can only find white fly on one of the palms and only on a few leaves of that palm so I am not sure that is the cause.

Oh, dear. Not good. Fungicide can't hurt.

If you're near the ocean (and I suspect you are in Encinitas) than the extra humidity contributes to the problem.

Perhaps a veteran neighbor can shed some light. . . . .

[MattyB]

It looks like we're looking at some Howea spp., Rhopalostylis spp. and Pinanga. I'd say your main problem was the intense heat possibly coupled w/ too much sun and not enough water. If they're young you're not gonna be able to get them to uptake enough water even if they're submerged. They just have to grow more roots for more years. The white flies should be easily enough dispatched. Welcome to Fall in San Diego. It's a bitch.

[joe_OC]

I agree with Matt...I think it's the extreme heat this week. You can spray the whiteflies off the palms quite easily and rub the mold off the fronds with water.

[Bags]

Thanks for the replies. This does not seem to be the pandemic that I was thinking it was. Now that it has warmed up and dried out The black mold has died back and everything looks like it did yesterday. Like Matty and Joe said the problem seems to be acclamation. Most of my palms were planted in the past two years and have a lot of brown on them. The last few night have been very wet here. It looks like the fungus loved it but was only going after the dead parts of the fronds. I trimmed all of the dead parts of the leaves off with cissors and I am going to treat with fungicide. I think they should be fine.

As far as the Baueri goes that has been in the ground for two years and gets watered three times a week on drip with plenty of mulch so I was surprised to see it go down hill now when it has seen much hotter this summer and done fine. I will give it some extra water and hope it pulls through. Thanks, Aaron

[amazon exotics]

That really sux !! I hope they come out alright.

[epicure3]

I am curious to know how long ago your palms were planted.?

[Bags]

I am curious to know how long ago your palms were planted.?

Of the palms shown the Baueri, Chatham island and Basseliana glabrata were planted last year. There is a Heydescepe in there that was planted this summer. The Chatham island and Baueri are in full sun and are still getting sun burn. The Heydescepe is probably getting too much sun right now althought there is a kentia next to it that should be giving it enough canopy soon. There are other palms affected that I did not show. Aaron

[CardiffPalmNut]

Aaron - I have had similar problems in the past, NEEM oil will knock out the white fly ( I have some concentrate if you don't, send me a PM or give me a call), and any mild soap diluted will help remove the soot. Its like Matty said , fall can be a bitch even here at the beach.

Bill

[BS Man about Palms]

Hmmm. Something different here. I can't put my finger on it. It does look like heat damage from the heat wave while you were gone. But it looks like something else too as I know you are pretty coastal and I don't think it got THAT hot at your place.

Then again, what are you doing leaving a palm garden unattended in late summer in So Cal, are you nuts?

[Bags]

Aaron - I have had similar problems in the past, NEEM oil will knock out the white fly ( I have some concentrate if you don't, send me a PM or give me a call), and any mild soap diluted will help remove the soot. Its like Matty said , fall can be a bitch even here at the beach.

Bill

Glad to see you're still around Bill. Thanks for the offer of the Neem oil, but I do not think the white flys are going to be much of a problem. I ripped out the hibiscus plants that were infested with them and just rinsed them off of the one palm that had them...I still need to come by for a garden tour one of these days. Aaron

Edited September 26, 2009 by Bags

[Bags]

Hmmm. Something different here. I can't put my finger on it. It does look like heat damage from the heat wave while you were gone. But it looks like something else too as I know you are pretty coastal and I don't think it got THAT hot at your place.

Then again, what are you doing leaving a palm garden unattended in late summer in So Cal, are you nuts?

I was gone from Sept 12-19 so I am not really sure how hot it got while I was gone, but that was one of my larger more established palms and nothing else looked any worse when I got home so you may be right.

I am nuts, but as far as leaving my garden in the middle of summer goes. While I do get great satisfaction out of watching my little palms grow I did go to Maui stay in an amazing resort, The water was 80 degrees, the waves were over head, and saw lots of palms like this Metroxylon.

[epicure3]

I am curious to know how long ago your palms were planted.?

Of the palms shown the Baueri, Chatham island and Basseliana glabrata were planted last year. There is a Heydescepe in there that was planted this summer. The Chatham island and Baueri are in full sun and are still getting sun burn. The Heydescepe is probably getting too much sun right now althought there is a kentia next to it that should be giving it enough canopy soon. There are other palms affected that I did not show. Aaron

The reason I ask, and I could be way off base here, is that the palm in shot number one looks like it was planted too deep. Maybe it's just the angle of the camera or something. Have you noticed some growth in the last year with those palms?

[joe_OC]

The reason I ask, and I could be way off base here, is that the palm in shot number one looks like it was planted too deep. Maybe it's just the angle of the camera or something. Have you noticed some growth in the last year with those palms?

I think that is just mulch. The reason why I think it is heat is because the fronds that burned were the older ones: The largest frond that is opened is the newest frond and the spear looks good. These did not burn because they were more sun hardened than the other fronds.

[Bags]

I am curious to know how long ago your palms were planted.?

Of the palms shown the Baueri, Chatham island and Basseliana glabrata were planted last year. There is a Heydescepe in there that was planted this summer. The Chatham island and Baueri are in full sun and are still getting sun burn. The Heydescepe is probably getting too much sun right now althought there is a kentia next to it that should be giving it enough canopy soon. There are other palms affected that I did not show. Aaron

The reason I ask, and I could be way off base here, is that the palm in shot number one looks like it was planted too deep. Maybe it's just the angle of the camera or something. Have you noticed some growth in the last year with those palms?

I planted it with part of the heel above the soil level (not convinced that is even the best method of planting anyways as it goes against what a plant would do in nature) and it has been growing fine. All of the leaves opened in full sun so it would be from heat stress not sunburn.

[LJG]

Funny. Where I have heard this before?

The reason I ask, and I could be way off base here, is that the palm in shot number one looks like it was planted too deep. Maybe it's just the angle of the camera or something. Have you noticed some growth in the last year with those palms?

I think that is just mulch. The reason why I think it is heat is because the fronds that burned were the older ones: The largest frond that is opened is the newest frond and the spear looks good. These did not burn because they were more sun hardened than the other fronds.

[LJG]

Aaron, feel the dead part of the leaves. Are the crispy? Or are they mushy or spongy like? I have found necrosis from sunburn fries the leaves crisp. Necrosis from fungus is totally different (well at first anyway). I have no idea the deal here as it is hard to tell from pictures but one other possible thing is the mulch. Where was it bought? From the recycling places or places that treat it? The places that recycle yard waste have no real controls. A dead tree loaded with fungus/disease gets dumped into the same pile as other yard waste. No idea with you, but this could certainly be a reason a yard would pick up a massive fungal attack.

[CardiffPalmNut]

Aaron - I have had similar problems in the past, NEEM oil will knock out the white fly ( I have some concentrate if you don't, send me a PM or give me a call), and any mild soap diluted will help remove the soot. Its like Matty said , fall can be a bitch even here at the beach.

Bill

Glad to see you're still around Bill. Thanks for the offer of the Neem oil, but I do not think the white flys are going to be much of a problem. I ripped out the hibiscus plants that were infested with them and just rinsed them off of the one palm that had them...I still need to come by for a garden tour one of these days. Aaron

Your welcome to come by anytime.

Aloha.

bill

[Shon]

Just the front yard Aaron? Hows the stuff in back?

[Bags]

Len,

The leaves feel mushy and as you can see in the picture the fungus comes off on my hand when I rub the leaf....I get all of my mulch for El Corazon in Oceanside. It is compost so I would hope the composting process would kill any fungus, but maybe not. I put the mulch down about a month ago so that could be the cause.

Shon,

I went out this morning and it is now in the back yard. This stuff spreads fast.

[LJG]

If it is in your back and front, I would bet it came in the compost. The trick now is not spread it while you kill it. Don't used shared yard tools, etc.

Len,

The leaves feel mushy and as you can see in the picture the fungus comes off on my hand when I rub the leaf....I get all of my mulch for El Corazon in Oceanside. It is compost so I would hope the composting process would kill any fungus, but maybe not. I put the mulch down about a month ago so that could be the cause.

Shon,

I went out this morning and it is now in the back yard. This stuff spreads fast.

[Bags]

I sprayed every plant in my yard with Cleary's fungicide so hopefully that will take care of it. I found some similar fungus on the internet and they recomended removing the infected areas and treating with fungicide. They also said it is usually not fatal.

Len,

El Corazon recycling facility has been a cheap source of mulch for myself and many others in this area so I wonder if anyone else has had a similar problem. They compost in huge piles that get very hot so I am still not sure that any fungus could survive the composting process.

[Bags]

I just realized that Ellidro put the same compost in his yard on the same day I mulched my yard!

Nick,

While I was spreading my compost Ciro stopped by and said he just finished spreading compost in your yard. If it were the mulch you would probably have a similar problem which you obviously do not. Hmmmmm.

[ellidro]

I just realized that Ellidro put the same compost in his yard on the same day I mulched my yard!

Nick,

While I was spreading my compost Ciro stopped by and said he just finished spreading compost in your yard. If it were the mulch you would probably have a similar problem which you obviously do not. Hmmmmm.

Now you've got me scared! Haven't had any issues yet! I honesty doubt the compost would be the issue. The last batch I got was so hot it actually felt like my feet were burning when I was spreading it.

[LJG]

Aaron, I get the same stuff. Tierra rica I think it is called. I know for a fact mulches from these recycling places carry disease. No way for them not too. But compost? Good question. I have no idea if this is your issue, just throwing that out there. Seems odd many of your plants, front and back got the fungus. Plants fighting off disease would certainly have an easier time at getting burned from the sun during that hot spell and would have a easier time at getting whitefly. So this could explain why your plants look more burnt then others in your area that have new plantings, like Nick for example.

It is good you are hitting all your plants with Cleary's. Maybe spray with Daconil too as it might be a leaf fungus? Good luck man!

Oh yeah, rememebr, spraying Cleary's on the leaf will not do much. It is not a contact killer. It is a systemic. So drench the soil with it.

[kahili]

It looks like black sooty mold to me. Here is one link-scroll down to the picture of the sooty mold on the palm and see if it is similar to you. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...sa%3DN%26um%3D1

If you can wash it off, then that is what it is. Judging by the one leaflet that you showed with the amount of whiteflies on it, then you have them on other palms as well. They lay their eggs on the lowest leaves of the plant, and tend to hang out on the higher leaves of the plant where they lay the eggs. Look underneath the lowest leaves of that plant with the whiteflies and you will see the eggs-they are really small, but visible to the eye. They are like this picture http://www.hydro-gardens.com/images/Whitef...fested_Leaf.JPG Normally, if the plant has a lot of leaves, I would suggest removing a leaf with that many eggs on it and disposing of it in the garbage-but some of your palms don't have a lot of leaves on them, and you may all but strip the plant of leaves doing that, but I would definitely spray up underneath those leaves with a hort oil or Neem oil in the early am or late afternoon/ early evening. Spray the underneath leaves of the whole plant-it has to be in the very early am or late afternoon because you don't want the sun hitting the palm leaves after you just sprayed, and also the whitefly are not active at these times-they are on the leaves (where you can spray them), not flying around. Make sure your solution is not too strong with the oil-follow the directions carefully and test one palm to make sure it is ok, but you need to spray something right away that will kill the whitefly in all the stages and oil is about the only thing. There are sprays that will kill the adult , but not the eggs, or a spray that will mess with the sexual reproduction of the adult-but that all takes time and you have to spray every 5 days for at least a month to follow the reproduction cycle of the whitefly. Its best never to allow such a build up of the whitefly-they can be a real pain to get rid of when the investation is that heavy.

After you spray the oil, use imidacloprid as a systemic to help get rid of the whiteflies. You can get it as Bayers Tree and Shrub (it says one yr coverage-but that is bs-its one month coverage) and drench the soil, or you can get it as a granular (Merit or under a generic name, but cheaper) and topdress the soil around the palms, which is the way I would go. Cheaper and faster, because you will have to reapply every month. You just have to make sure that you water in the granular form. It leaves a gray paste-but it will be under your mulch anyway. Either way-it will take at least a wk, probably two wks,to work its way up through the palm-so you may have to spray again in a week.

Also start looking for the whitefly hanging out on other plants in the yard-my bet is that they are infesting other plants as well. You have to treat them as well.

Google "sooty mold" and you will learn more about it. Its removable, you can wash it off, and I think I would. I would put the Merit down first and that way the water from washing the leaves will help get the imidacloprid from the granular into the soil and into the roots.

Daconil and Clearys won't help with this fungus.

[Bags]

kahili,

I looked up sooty mold and that seems to be what I have. I think the white flys combined with the warm weather and several very wet misty nights probably created the perfect environment for the mold to thrive. It doesn't appear to be very harmfull to the plants and fairly easy to remove by washing it off like a few others mentioned. Only the Hibiscus had a bad white fly infestation and I removed those so hopefully that will take care of most of the problem. I just washed the flys off of the palms, but if they do come back I will try using the pesticides and methods you mentioned. I really appreciate the help. Aaron

[kahili]

Aaron, (my son's name too!) just want to clarify a few things: just washing off the whiteflies does nothing. They are already back on the same leaves-or will be tonight. They will continue to lay eggs unless you do something to kill the eggs, and they will get worse. I don't think that your winters are severe enough to kill back the population. They will or already have found other plants in your yard that they like as well as the palms-thats just the nature of whiteflies.

Also-that was a pretty impressive infestation on just the one palm leaf-I say that so you don't underestimate what a infestation looks like. In fact, I would cut off all leaflets that look that bad and throw them away.

As to not washing off the sooty mold-the only bad thing is that the mold can cover the leaves to the extent that the leaves can't photosynthesize and thereby slow down growth and/or eventually kill them (if the whiteflies don't first). What I saw of your palms, they were fairly small and thus don't have lots of leaves. I think I would explore if there were ways to do it easily-it seems a daunting task if just spraying doesn't remove the mold.

Good luck, and I hope the palms are ok

[Bags]

THe black on your fingers looks like sooty mold from honeydew secreted by the whiteflies. (Honeydew is sticky sap full of excess sugar excreted by the bugs). Sooty mold with wash off with water, or a very mild soap solution.

Dave,

I am not sure how I got so sidetracked, but I just realized you pointed the cause out right away. Thanks again, Aaron

[Tracy]

Since I have been fighting sooty black mold, my wife suggested I look up and see what others are doing to treat it.  Some examples in my yard on 1) Chamaedorea hooperiana 2)Kentiopsis oliviformis 3) Dypsis lutescens and 4) Burretiokentia hapala.  I seem to get more on the understory palms when stuff drops from the canopy palms (King palms and Kentia's in my neighbor's yard for example).  With smaller palms, it is easier to spray off, but once overhead or in clumping palms I find it quite challenging.  In the cases of palms that are flowering or have plants underneath that flower, I avoid using products with Imidacloprid because of its association with killing bees.  I'm interested in what others are doing today about this challenge.  My wife actually was using a wet rags, wiping off leaflets which is a lot of work and you are limited to the ones you can reach.  What's working in your garden?

[Kim]

During March and April, my Cyrtostachys renda looked better than ever. I left for San Diego, returned at the end of June and they were black with sooty mold. Not a lot of whiteflies, but they definitely need treatment.  I will use a systemic, such as Bayer 3-in-1, and a fungicide spray, plus Amdro for ant control -- have to get rid of the "farmers." It had been really wet in April; even some of my bromeliads have spots of sooty mold, which is unusual. Weird stuff.