Just curious if there are any Cocothrinax that can survive reliably at my house, 9b with light frosts, last years low was 27F.

Matt

To the best of my knowledge, C. argentata seems to be amongst the hardiest, if not the hardiest. It will take occasional light frost, but not hard freezes night after night. If you get one, plant it in a sheltered area. Another thing, where they are native in FL, summers are warm-hot both day and night. Daytime highs are around 90 and lows around 80 with dewpoints in the 70s most of the year with the exceptions obviously occurring during the winter. I don't know if your cool summer nights and lower relative humidity will be a deal killer for this species. It's a beautiful palm and I recommend it highly. The other palm worth trying is Leucothrinax morrissii (formerly Thrinax morrissii). It's a few degrees hardier than the C. argentata and equally as beautiful. One other silly note, make sure you get two or more C. argentatas. That way your palm buddies can come over during the PRAs and admire your nice tatas. OK, bad joke, but it makes us laugh over here.......

Hi Matt,

I have Coccothrinax argentea and fragrans, and they have never shown a scratch from the cold -- out in the open, no cover, and full coastal sun, if summer ever gets here. My lows are not typically to 27F, but I think I got to 29F in the Jan 2007 freeze. It seems to me there is a guy in Vista who grows a lot of Coccothrinax. Just understand they are slow. As in s--l--o--w. But attractive, too, worth the wait, in my opinion.

My Coccothrinax, exact species never identified suffered some damage at 26 along with a light frost, but it recovered nicely. It was newly planted in the fall as well. Last year with a milder winter it suffered on very slight damage. Although I suspect it will always suffer some damage here in a warm zone 9a, it does look like it will make it till one of those bad winters.

Every palm is different in my experience and to me the stiffer frond coccothrinax seem to do better than the limper ones. I have several coccothrinax here that get tested every few yrs and they all came through 30 degrees with frost ok but with some leaf burn. I don't really see a big difference in any one in particular.I grow several and see what does the best that's my philosophy. I have several C. miraguama and borhidiana's that did great this last winter again 30 degrees with frost and with no apparent damage and they are in 3 gallon pots. I had some C. argentea's with softer fronds that burnt from the same cold.

Dr. Young's famed Tampa garden has C. crinita that has come back from low 20's on multiple occasions. It and the C. argentata in his garden were both planted 40+ years ago. Those two unquestionably share the title.

Matt,

I have killed many Thrinax and Cocothrinax over the years. Even though a few might take a few degrees of frost, they just languish in our climates. They definately require warm night temps. to grow.

Dick

You should ask Gary Wood... he's in zone 9b and he's got a lot of maturing Coccothrinax... miraguama so far has been his best I think, but most of them seem to have survived. I have not lost a Coccothrinax yet to cold in So Cal except Coccothrinax spissa (which nearly vaporized in the cold)... and all of mine saw temps into the mid 20s. However, in southern California these are SSSLLLOOOWWW, way slower than in a warm, humid climate like Florida. So start as big as you can, or only your decendants will get to enjoy your palms as adults.

To the best of my knowledge, C. argentata seems to be amongst the hardiest, if not the hardiest. It will take occasional light frost, but not hard freezes night after night. If you get one, plant it in a sheltered area. Another thing, where they are native in FL, summers are warm-hot both day and night. Daytime highs are around 90 and lows around 80 with dewpoints in the 70s most of the year with the exceptions obviously occurring during the winter. I don't know if your cool summer nights and lower relative humidity will be a deal killer for this species. It's a beautiful palm and I recommend it highly. The other palm worth trying is Leucothrinax morrissii (formerly Thrinax morrissii). It's a few degrees hardier than the C. argentata and equally as beautiful. One other silly note, make sure you get two or more C. argentatas. That way your palm buddies can come over during the PRAs and admire your nice tatas. OK, bad joke, but it makes us laugh over here.......

Good one Keith

Thank you everyone for the advice, looks like agrgentata, miraguama, and crinita are possible choices. When I was a Tiki Ricks a few weeks, I really enjoyed all of his different Cocothrinax. I have seen a few local growers with some nice sized C. miraguamas, Rancho Soledad was one.

Will they survive long term in containers? That is one option I'm considering.

Thank you again everyone,

Matt

Thank you everyone for the advice, looks like agrgentata, miraguama, and crinita are possible choices. When I was a Tiki Ricks a few weeks, I really enjoyed all of his different Cocothrinax. I have seen a few local growers with some nice sized C. miraguamas, Rancho Soledad was one.

Will they survive long term in containers? That is one option I'm considering.

Thank you again everyone,

Matt

I don't think these are good palms for containers. I've had tiny seedlings sending big roots out the bottom of 5 gallon pots. They really want to be in the ground.

For what it's worth, C. barbadensis and argentata have been noticeably faster growing compared to the others I've tried.

the native argentata (there are several other variants) has been 100% undamaged here down to 23f w/ icicles hangin off the adjacent eaves. The crinita palm is a close 2nd, those have spotted some around 27-25f. Someone above made a good pt., usually the stiff leaved sps. are the best for cold, not all miraguama are stiffies - var. havanensis is a good one to try, var. roseocarpa comes back for me but does get damaged. The odd thing is argentata is kinda floppy ... there are many sps that haven't been tested outside of cushy so. Fl. winters, best to pick out the ones that catch yer fancy and trial along.

FYI the native Leucothrinax morrisii shows damage around 25f here but its always been minor spotting/streaking at worst, they too are tough buggers. Not so much for native radiata, wimpy but bud hardy so far. Same for parviflora, but T."rex " true name excelsa has been just as tough as the Leuco's, go figure ...

Hello all, these are my suggestions, after reading the thread:

- High altitude species such as C.montana and C.scoparia prefer cooler temperatures for growth, and might be a good choice for year-long cooler climates, not for occasional cold shots.

- High latitude species such as C.argentata, C.borhidiana and C.crinita can take occasional cold, while they enjoy consistantly hot weather for good growth.

- Rock-dwelling species, such as C. alexandrii, C. munizii and C.gracilis would surely do better than others in long-term containers.

Carlo

C.scoparia here in south central fl does great for me maybe one of the easiest so far but C.montana does not seem to like cold weather very much at least the one I have didn't.The C.montana has been real slow growing after our cold last winter.

Hi Matt,

Ive tried them and was able to keep them alive but they always looked lousy and took forever to grow new leaves....so I gave up.

Have you tried Trachycarpus martianus (Khasa Hills)? It's much more reliable in our climate and is similar in appearance. This picture is of an exceptionally nice plant. Often the leaves are somewhat less than 360 degree fans though.

Great information everyone, thank you.

It sounds like I'll definitely be pushing it trying one of these in my marginal climate, I guess I better not spend too much if I decide to try. I'll wait for the right deal on an argentata, crinita, or miraguama.

That's a beauty Glenn, a definite option. What do the undersides look like?

Matt

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Darn that Tiki Rick guy for showing me all those tasty Cocothrinax and getting me hooked

What about the Trachy martianus Dick, do you have one of those? If so, how has it done at your place? I think in general, most Trachies will make it at my home.

Matt

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Darn that Tiki Rick guy for showing me all those tasty Cocothrinax and getting me hooked

What about the Trachy martianus Dick, do you have one of those? If so, how has it done at your place? I think in general, most Trachies will make it at my home.

Matt

Hey Matt,

A friend of mine and I have many Coccothrinax here in the Palm Springs area, and they seem to do fine dipping below 30. in fact we did not lose any in the 07 freeze and we saw down to 27 I think. I have all but 3 of my Coccothrinax in pots, most of them around 10 years old and still doing great. I have a Spissa in a 15G which did not blink at the cold, Argentea, Miragauma, Argentata, Crinita, Barbadensis, and Sp.'s all in a mix of 5G and 15G, and I just got Azul... I know you don't get as hot as we get but I thought Temecula is a warm to hot inland climate similar to Fallbrook, and I would think you should be able to do well with them. My Argentea that I planted sped up significantly, tripled or quadrupled its speed of growth compared to the ones I still have in pots, and did not skip a beat from the 07 freeze.

I think its a great genus. My friend has many Coccothrinax in the ground that I just love. Thy are like miniature fan palms, and some have spectacular star burst fans...

Here's a pic of C. Argentea in Palm Springs, Ca.

C. Argentea

After dropping down to 27F one night back in Jan. 2003, the following Coccothrinax had no damage;

C. argentata

C. crinita

C. miraguama

C. spissa

C. crinita x C. barbadensis

C. sp.

C. miraguama var. havensis and C. readii had slight burn and C. barbadensis had moderate damage.

Then there is the unknown, slender trunked, stiff leaved specimen we have. The records show it was planted in June 1985 so that means it survived the record 12/89 freeze here, 2 nights at 19-20F. There are some of these around in the SoFL collections. I can't remember the story behind them. Ours has never flowered and has never been damaged by cold since the '89 freeze. It is also a slow grower, it has about 6ft of clear trunk. The hairy trunked palm to the right is C, crinita x C. barbadensis, a great palm with hybrid vigor. It has the look of C. crinita but the much faster growth rate of C. barbadensis.

the native argentata (there are several other variants) has been 100% undamaged here down to 23f w/ icicles hangin off the adjacent eaves. The crinita palm is a close 2nd, those have spotted some around 27-25f. Someone above made a good pt., usually the stiff leaved sps. are the best for cold, not all miraguama are stiffies - var. havanensis is a good one to try, var. roseocarpa comes back for me but does get damaged. The odd thing is argentata is kinda floppy ... there are many sps that haven't been tested outside of cushy so. Fl. winters, best to pick out the ones that catch yer fancy and trial along.

FYI the native Leucothrinax morrisii shows damage around 25f here but its always been minor spotting/streaking at worst, they too are tough buggers. Not so much for native radiata, wimpy but bud hardy so far. Same for parviflora, but T."rex " true name excelsa has been just as tough as the Leuco's, go figure ...

Dave, I have found the same thing for Thrinax excelsa, the foliage is hardier than the FL native T. radiata. This year after just one night at 30F the T. radiata has some very minor burn, even under tree canopy and the T. excelsa nothing.

Eric, I love that cross!

I didn't read the thread, but here are some that should be good to 27F, without damage as long as there is no frost:

C. montana

C. miraguama

C. crinita

C. ekmanii

C. boschiana

Basically, the stiff leaved ones do the best.

Eric, I love that cross!

This one ???

Wow! Anyone selling this cross??

Matt,

I have Trachycarpus fortunei, wagnerianus, nanus, princeps, latisectus and martianus. All have proven to be hardy in my climate, but some get a good bit of shade from large decidious Oaks. My T. nanus is in a container and it almost got cooked last summer in a heat wave, but I think the roots were damaged from the heat and it would have done better in the ground. My T.martianus is over my head now and it had foliage damage one cold winter, but only once in 15 years. I suspect T. latisectus might be a little cold sensitive as they are awfully slow growing.

I get more foliage damage from heat waves than the cold as my T. wagnerianus sometimes get some of the horizontal fronds burned. Wagnerianus is definatelly the fastest growing for me. I marked one of mine with a plastic tie in Jan. and it has already grown 8 new fronds. The trunks grow about a foot and a half per season. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have planted any T. fortunei. Not only do they get sun burned in the summer, but they look ratty and wind beaten when they get tall. They look much better when they are young and get some shade. It appears that T. princeps is going to be fast growing, but mine is in a container and needs to go in the ground. At any rate, Trachs are our answer for Cocothrinax.

Dick

Matt,

I have Trachycarpus fortunei, wagnerianus, nanus, princeps, latisectus and martianus. All have proven to be hardy in my climate, but some get a good bit of shade from large decidious Oaks. My T. nanus is in a container and it almost got cooked last summer in a heat wave, but I think the roots were damaged from the heat and it would have done better in the ground. My T.martianus is over my head now and it had foliage damage one cold winter, but only once in 15 years. I suspect T. latisectus might be a little cold sensitive as they are awfully slow growing.

I get more foliage damage from heat waves than the cold as my T. wagnerianus sometimes get some of the horizontal fronds burned. Wagnerianus is definatelly the fastest growing for me. I marked one of mine with a plastic tie in Jan. and it has already grown 8 new fronds. The trunks grow about a foot and a half per season. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have planted any T. fortunei. Not only do they get sun burned in the summer, but they look ratty and wind beaten when they get tall. They look much better when they are young and get some shade. It appears that T. princeps is going to be fast growing, but mine is in a container and needs to go in the ground. At any rate, Trachs are our answer for Cocothrinax.

Dick

Dick,

Thank you for the info.

I only have T. wag, latisectus, and a small princeps in a container, but nanus and martianus are on my list. I am surprised to see my princeps already showing blue on the bottom side and it's only on its second small pinnate frond.

Matt

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Darn that Tiki Rick guy for showing me all those tasty Cocothrinax and getting me hooked

What about the Trachy martianus Dick, do you have one of those? If so, how has it done at your place? I think in general, most Trachies will make it at my home.

Matt

Hey Matt,

A friend of mine and I have many Coccothrinax here in the Palm Springs area, and they seem to do fine dipping below 30. in fact we did not lose any in the 07 freeze and we saw down to 27 I think. I have all but 3 of my Coccothrinax in pots, most of them around 10 years old and still doing great. I have a Spissa in a 15G which did not blink at the cold, Argentea, Miragauma, Argentata, Crinita, Barbadensis, and Sp.'s all in a mix of 5G and 15G, and I just got Azul... I know you don't get as hot as we get but I thought Temecula is a warm to hot inland climate similar to Fallbrook, and I would think you should be able to do well with them. My Argentea that I planted sped up significantly, tripled or quadrupled its speed of growth compared to the ones I still have in pots, and did not skip a beat from the 07 freeze.

I think its a great genus. My friend has many Coccothrinax in the ground that I just love. Thy are like miniature fan palms, and some have spectacular star burst fans...

Here's a pic of C. Argentea in Palm Springs, Ca.

C. Argentea

That's a nice one Dave, and thanks for the info. I think the difference between PS and Temecula is that you have more heat for longer like some have said that is what it takes. I used to live in PS and sometimes the summer temps at midnight were still in the 90's. I get about the same low as PS, but stay there for longer and get it more frequently. I'll try one some day if I get one cheaply, but don't want to risk big bucks on one.

Matt

After dropping down to 27F one night back in Jan. 2003, the following Coccothrinax had no damage;

C. argentata

C. crinita

C. miraguama

C. spissa

C. crinita x C. barbadensis

C. sp.

C. miraguama var. havensis and C. readii had slight burn and C. barbadensis had moderate damage.

Then there is the unknown, slender trunked, stiff leaved specimen we have. The records show it was planted in June 1985 so that means it survived the record 12/89 freeze here, 2 nights at 19-20F. There are some of these around in the SoFL collections. I can't remember the story behind them. Ours has never flowered and has never been damaged by cold since the '89 freeze. It is also a slow grower, it has about 6ft of clear trunk. The hairy trunked palm to the right is C, crinita x C. barbadensis, a great palm with hybrid vigor. It has the look of C. crinita but the much faster growth rate of C. barbadensis.

Excellent pics and info as always Eric, thank you.

Matt

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Darn that Tiki Rick guy for showing me all those tasty Cocothrinax and getting me hooked

What about the Trachy martianus Dick, do you have one of those? If so, how has it done at your place? I think in general, most Trachies will make it at my home.

Matt

Hey Matt,

A friend of mine and I have many Coccothrinax here in the Palm Springs area, and they seem to do fine dipping below 30. in fact we did not lose any in the 07 freeze and we saw down to 27 I think. I have all but 3 of my Coccothrinax in pots, most of them around 10 years old and still doing great. I have a Spissa in a 15G which did not blink at the cold, Argentea, Miragauma, Argentata, Crinita, Barbadensis, and Sp.'s all in a mix of 5G and 15G, and I just got Azul... I know you don't get as hot as we get but I thought Temecula is a warm to hot inland climate similar to Fallbrook, and I would think you should be able to do well with them. My Argentea that I planted sped up significantly, tripled or quadrupled its speed of growth compared to the ones I still have in pots, and did not skip a beat from the 07 freeze.

I think its a great genus. My friend has many Coccothrinax in the ground that I just love. Thy are like miniature fan palms, and some have spectacular star burst fans...

Here's a pic of C. Argentea in Palm Springs, Ca.

C. Argentea

That's a nice one Dave, and thanks for the info. I think the difference between PS and Temecula is that you have more heat for longer like some have said that is what it takes. I used to live in PS and sometimes the summer temps at midnight were still in the 90's. I get about the same low as PS, but stay there for longer and get it more frequently. I'll try one some day if I get one cheaply, but don't want to risk big bucks on one.

Matt

Hey Matt,

Do you know how your weather compares to Fallbrook..?

Coccothrinax montana has survived but not thrived in our chill zone here in San Francisco, despite coming from as high as 7000ft a.s.l. in Hispaniola. Maybe Temecula would serve it better.

Matt,

I watch your weather, temps., etc and you and I have a very similar climate, highs, lows, etc. Don't waste your time on Cocothrinax as our nights are just cool for them. They will take the occasional cold snaps in Florida, but then it warms up fast there while our night temps. remain cool most of the time. They like it hot and sultry.

Dick

Darn that Tiki Rick guy for showing me all those tasty Cocothrinax and getting me hooked

What about the Trachy martianus Dick, do you have one of those? If so, how has it done at your place? I think in general, most Trachies will make it at my home.

Matt

Hey Matt,

A friend of mine and I have many Coccothrinax here in the Palm Springs area, and they seem to do fine dipping below 30. in fact we did not lose any in the 07 freeze and we saw down to 27 I think. I have all but 3 of my Coccothrinax in pots, most of them around 10 years old and still doing great. I have a Spissa in a 15G which did not blink at the cold, Argentea, Miragauma, Argentata, Crinita, Barbadensis, and Sp.'s all in a mix of 5G and 15G, and I just got Azul... I know you don't get as hot as we get but I thought Temecula is a warm to hot inland climate similar to Fallbrook, and I would think you should be able to do well with them. My Argentea that I planted sped up significantly, tripled or quadrupled its speed of growth compared to the ones I still have in pots, and did not skip a beat from the 07 freeze.

I think its a great genus. My friend has many Coccothrinax in the ground that I just love. Thy are like miniature fan palms, and some have spectacular star burst fans...

Here's a pic of C. Argentea in Palm Springs, Ca.

C. Argentea

That's a nice one Dave, and thanks for the info. I think the difference between PS and Temecula is that you have more heat for longer like some have said that is what it takes. I used to live in PS and sometimes the summer temps at midnight were still in the 90's. I get about the same low as PS, but stay there for longer and get it more frequently. I'll try one some day if I get one cheaply, but don't want to risk big bucks on one.

Matt

Hey Matt,

Do you know how your weather compares to Fallbrook..?

Unfortunately I get colder than fallbrook, there is a mountain ridge that separated us and keep the coastal influence out. I probably had 8 days with light frost this winter, which is a few more than normal.

Matt

Great information everyone, thank you.

It sounds like I'll definitely be pushing it trying one of these in my marginal climate, I guess I better not spend too much if I decide to try. I'll wait for the right deal on an argentata, crinita, or miraguama.

That's a beauty Glenn, a definite option. What do the undersides look like?

Matt

Hey Matt,

The undersides are only slightly glaucous. T. martianus has two variants...the Nepal variety is nice also.