Palms for the UK climate?

[reggieroo]

Hi all,

I'm new here but have a very keen interest in palms especially this year as I'm landscaping my garden & turning it into a tropical paradise.

Last year I made a few unfortunate mistakes & bought a couple of Phoenix canariensis & a Washingtonia robusta for planting this year but the frost killed them off as I had no idea how to look after them or what to buy. I've had to go out & buy a load more but this time I've bought 2 Trachycarpus fortunei, 3 Chamaerops Humilis & a butia capitia. I also couldn't resist & bought another phoenix canariesis but will probably have to wrap it in fleece.

I'm hoping that this little lot will survive the next winter a lot better. I was really happy to get hold of the Butia capita as I haven't seen a lot of these in the UK & have been told they are more hardy than the phoenix down to -10.

I'm looking for a little advise on the care of these palms as I don't want to lose anymore over the winter & don't have greenhouse to put them in, also I want to plant them all in the ground permanently so they grow well. I'm also on the lookout for anything else Tropical that can handle the UK climate.

My soil has some clay as you dig down about 1 foot, so do I need to add some sand for drainage & what type of soil do these palms prefer?

Any advise would be much appreciated & when its all planted I'll add some pics.

Edited June 1, 2009 by reggieroo

[Jonathan]

Hi there - welcome to palm madness!

Your climate is a fair bit colder than mine - but we are still a cool climate, so I can probably give you a few ideas .

First of all I would say drainage is paramount - particularly for Butia capitata. Most palms (there are exceptions) dont like wet feet, particularly in cold winter climates, so if you have clay at 12", I would advise you to build raised beds or mounds to the same height at least, then you should be ok.

Work in lots of organic matter - palms love it.

Other species you could try might be:

Nannorrhops ritchiana

Trachcarpus wagnerianus

Rhapidophyllum hystrix

Serenoa repens

Sabal minor...maybe....?!?

There are quite a few other Brits on this forum, hopefully they might chime in.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Gan Eden]

Hi there,

I'm not sure you will get much of replies as this forums tends to be dominated by palm enthusiasts based in the US who are clearly more advanced with their discussions of palms so perhaps your questions are too "basic" for them, but I will respond as I am originally from the UK and have grown palms over there.

The palms you have chosen are fully cold hardy for a start. Select a position for planting in full sun, preferbly in a raised garden bed for better drainage.

Dig out as much of the clay as you can and replace with a mix of decent top soil, compost and manure. Use mulch as a top dressing to get moisture in and prevent weed competition.

Check out this site for more info about what you can grow as the majority are in the UK.

http://www.growingontheedge.net/

Cheers

[epicure3]

Also depends on where in GB you are. Are you near Cornwall in the SW or Northern Scotland. There is a huge difference b/w the 2 climate wise. That would help us immensely.

[wowow]

hi reggieroo, my climate is similar to yours though my small cidp did survive so perhaps slightly warmer. when choosing your cidp make sure you by one with a big base not long leaves.

other palms im interested in parajubaea, butia eriospatha (though most butia are very hardy),

others you can try can be found here

http://www.junglemusic.net/palmadvice/palms-coldhardy2.htm

Edited June 2, 2009 by wowow

[reggieroo]

Also depends on where in GB you are. Are you near Cornwall in the SW or Northern Scotland. There is a huge difference b/w the 2 climate wise. That would help us immensely.

I'm actually smack in the middle of England, in a little village in Worcestershire, what I like to call the shire as I'm a LOTR fan

[reggieroo]

Well thanks guys for the replies, at least I picked the right palms this year. I can't wait to plant them, still haven't finished the garden yet though.

Does it make much difference when I plant as I've still got lots of work with the hard landscaping before they can go in the ground.

[Jonathan]

Mid spring to early summer is best in cool climates in my opinion - gives the roots a chance to get moving before winter.

[ghar41]

Hello and welcome!

Rhapidophylum hystrix and Trachycarpus wagnerianus are among the most cold hardy palms known and give a wonderful tropical effect in any climate.

Areas of clay would need adjustment though. Most cold hardy palms need good drainage.

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Trachycarpus/wagnerianus.html

http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Rhapidophyllum/hystrix.html

Good luck!

[FRITO]

welcome!

I have found Trachycarpus fortunei are tolerant of heavy red clay soil we have in the SE USA. ive read reports of people north of me in Georgia planting T. fortunei in the red clay unamended with good results, It prefers this over sandy soils.

I would try to get ahold of some sabal palms as they are hardy, they are slow even with the heat we get here but when you live in a marginal climate and options are limited you can take what will grow, albeit slowly.

Ive read reports of Phoenix theophrasti being one of the most cold tolerant sabals, ive not had experience with it however. I suggest you try that if the CIDP fails for you again.

[nomolos]

Can you give some more info on your climatic conditions, minimum / maximum temps etc....

[Gan Eden]

Also depends on where in GB you are. Are you near Cornwall in the SW or Northern Scotland. There is a huge difference b/w the 2 climate wise. That would help us immensely.

I'm actually smack in the middle of England, in a little village in Worcestershire, what I like to call the shire as I'm a LOTR fan

Hi Buddy

You should be fine with soem of the plant suggestions. Its aways good to provide some protection for their first winter. If you buy larger plants then they would be much hardier.

Cheers

[AJQ]

Paul,

You can also ask the same questions on this forum here too:-

http://www.palmsociety.org.uk/forum/

They are quite knowledgeable and you should get a good response. The ones you have chosen so far will be fine. Although most parts of the UK had an exceptionally Cold winter this year, a 1 in 30, so there were quite a few casualties this time round.

Regards Andy.

Edited June 5, 2009 by AJQ

[chris.oz]

HI,

I suggest you have a look at Paul Spracklins garden. There would be photos of it on the web.

Its an outstanding example of what can be grown in the ground in Essex.

But up in Worcs..... the climate is more severe and the lingering damp winters may be a problem.

Andy, I was in London 2 weeks ago. No real problems with the exotics there. CIDPS, Trachys and the agave family seem to be doing quite well

London does have the "metropolis" microclimate, but it does snow lightly every so often.

[Moh]

Most people who try a nannorrhops in the Uk end up digging up a stick in the summer over here. It needs high heat to increase its hardiness, something that the UK lacks and it detests our wet winters.

What has survived for me this year unprotected in Birmingham Uk:

Trachycarpus Fortunei/ Wagnerianus Many

Chamaerops Humis / Cerifera Many

Rhapidophylum Hystrix 2, Both survived small but look good unaffected by the coldest winter in a while over here

Butia Odorata x3, one developed spearpull and looks dead, One is looking very good and putting new growth, one has a few fungal spots but is healthy

Butia Eriospatha x 4 all survived ( I think this is the hardiest of the butias for the UK)

Butia Capitata x 4 in pots close to the house all survived albeit a few spots on two of them but they look healthy enough

Jubaea put on new growth in winter and has impressed so far

Brahea Armata, another thumbs up did better then i expected

Pheonix Canariensis some leaf damage as they are fairly small but alive

Washington Robusta x2, totally defoliated but one is now showing a net leaf coming through..had to try and combat fungal attack on the growing point. The other shows no sign of life yet..its a wait and see what happens could be dead

Going to try these this year

trithrinax Campestris

Livistonia Decipiens

Chamaedorea Radicalis

Trithrinax Acanthocoma (undecided as to whether I plant out this year or leave in pots for one more year)

Jubutia (undecided as to whether I plant out this year or leave in pots for one more year)

Hope that helps

[Jose Maria]

I would like to add the Juania australis from Chile. They proceed from the Juan Fernandez Islands( remember Robinson Crusoe?)

It seems they grow in Ireland and other cold and wet places, just like the islands climate.

I have some seeds germinating, and am trying to see if they will adapt to the tropics.

[reggieroo]

We had -15 here last Winter & a very hard frost, that's what killed them off We don't normally get it that cold but now it has happened once it can happen again so I'm just a little worried about this coming Winter.

I may wrap all my new palms this time although I don't want to as I want to enjoy them through the Winter months. Can you leave fleece on all Winter or do you have to keep removing it?

I'm also looking at getting another Banana plant as I also lost one of those too, a red Banana. I've read that the Japanese Banana (Musa basjoo) is hardy down to -12.

[Mr T]

Hey reggie - I'm also from the UK (yorkshire area) and have decided to make an exotic section in my garden - all my palms were stashed in the garden shed over the winter and therefore survived the heavy snow but this year they'll be going in the ground so like you I need to come up with a plan to make sure they get through the tough climate.

I also had a Ensete Maurelli (red banana) only kept indoors but last month I put it outside in a sheltered spot and the two large leaves got smashed by the wind - so make sure your musa is well protected by the wind. I'm hoping my largish canary (8ft) which is going to be planted in front of the banana will give it some wind protection!

Has anyone got any tips how best to break the clay up without breaking my back first???

We had -15 here last Winter & a very hard frost, that's what killed them off We don't normally get it that cold but now it has happened once it can happen again so I'm just a little worried about this coming Winter.

I may wrap all my new palms this time although I don't want to as I want to enjoy them through the Winter months. Can you leave fleece on all Winter or do you have to keep removing it?

I'm also looking at getting another Banana plant as I also lost one of those too, a red Banana. I've read that the Japanese Banana (Musa basjoo) is hardy down to -12.

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Hi

- 15 c geez i didnt know it got that cold in England ,got to be a once in a lifetime low id say ! go for it ! ,and iwas complaining last winter when we got down to -0.5 c

[Gan Eden]

Hi

- 15 c geez i didnt know it got that cold in England ,got to be a once in a lifetime low id say ! go for it ! ,and iwas complaining last winter when we got down to -0.5 c

On high ground and in Scotland indeed.

[Alberto]

I would like to add the Juania australis from Chile. They proceed from the Juan Fernandez Islands( remember Robinson Crusoe?)

It seems they grow in Ireland and other cold and wet places, just like the islands climate.

I have some seeds germinating, and am trying to see if they will adapt to the tropics.

Hola Jose Maria,

Juania NEEDS a very fresh climate to grow and survive. It´s very fussy about warm nights and rot easily.

It s a palm I´ll try here in my subtropical climate at 1030m altitude. The hot days in summer (rare) are 31´C ,generally 25`C and nights are fresh. I swaped 4 Juania seeds for some hybrid seeds with a Guy from Zwitterland. One is germinating....

BTW Were you got your seeds from?