If ever in Tallahasee FL

[redant]

Go see Maclay Gardens . Not a palm heaven but some very mature cold hardy palms used within some extremely beautiful gardens. Worth the $4.00 for a car.

Pindo's are one of the most seen non-native palms in the Tallahassee area and there are some very nice mature ones all over the place.  I saw a fairly large queen palm at a bank. Can't believe it could survive more then one or two very mild winters there.

[F Zipperbaum]

I go to Tally about every other weekend for football games... great Gardens to visit.  And if you love GIANT Live oaks, there are some fantastic ones lining many of the streets.

[NBTX11]

(redant @ Nov. 07 2006,13:28)

QUOTE

Go see Maclay Gardens . Not a palm heaven but some very mature cold hardy palms used within some extremely beautiful gardens. Worth the $4.00 for a car.

Pindo's are one of the most seen non-native palms in the Tallahassee area and there are some very nice mature ones all over the place.  I saw a fairly large queen palm at a bank. Can't believe it could survive more then one or two very mild winters there.

Unless Tallahassee gets a lot colder than us, I would think queens would have survived a good number of years with this run of warm winters we've had.  I think they have basically the same type of climate we have and we haven't had a bad winter (one that would kill queen palms) in at least 10 years, maybe 16 years.  I know Tally sits in a cold pocket but I thought they were still an 8b/9aish climate.  We have queens ALL over the place and it will be interesting when we get that one brutal artic front what happens.

[BobbyinNY]

Unless Tallahassee gets a lot colder than us, I would think queens would have survived a good number of years with this run of warm winters we've had.  I think they have basically the same type of climate we have and we haven't had a bad winter (one that would kill queen palms) in at least 10 years, maybe 16 years.  I know Tally sits in a cold pocket but I thought they were still an 8b/9aish climate.  We have queens ALL over the place and it will be interesting when we get that one brutal artic front what happens

Well I can say this about queens... They handle the low 30's with no problem. We've had 30f 2 weeks ago and the queen was fine. Just sent him to the greenhouse on Sunday and was pushing up a new spear.

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Nov. 07 2006,14:29)

QUOTE

 We have queens ALL over the place and it will be interesting when we get that one brutal artic front what happens.

Courtesy of Eric of Orlando----

[BobbyinNY]

OUCH!!!... how cold did it get for THAT to happen?

[spockvr6]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 07 2006,15:04)

QUOTE

OUCH!!!... how cold did it get for THAT to happen?

http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin....8;st=80

[NBTX11]

Looking at our all time record lows it is only a matter of time until all the queens are killed off.  How long, who knows.  According to Weather.com, in weather records (120 years??) we have had 6 nights below 10F: Dec 23, 1989 (2F); Jan 11, 1982 (9F); Jan 12, 1982 (9F); Jan 8, 1930 (8F); Jan 31 1949 (2F), and Feb 2, 1951 (8F).  That would average to once every 20 years, but 3 of them were in the 1980s, so more likely once every 30-40 years for extreme brutal cold(<10F).  The rest of our winter record lows are in the teens, 20s, and low 30s.

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 07 2006,14:41)

QUOTE

Unless Tallahassee gets a lot colder than us, I would think queens would have survived a good number of years with this run of warm winters we've had.  I think they have basically the same type of climate we have and we haven't had a bad winter (one that would kill queen palms) in at least 10 years, maybe 16 years.  I know Tally sits in a cold pocket but I thought they were still an 8b/9aish climate.  We have queens ALL over the place and it will be interesting when we get that one brutal artic front what happens

Well I can say this about queens... They handle the low 30's with no problem. We've had 30f 2 weeks ago and the queen was fine. Just sent him to the greenhouse on Sunday and was pushing up a new spear.

Low 30s won't touch queens palms.  They are a lot hardier than that.

[BobbyinNY]

Last year we got down to 15f on 2 occasions, but it was a mild winter... We usually see the teens 3 or 4x/year, but not more than that and it's usually only for one night. Last year our lows were in the high 20's to low 30's for the most part... I'm wondering what this year will bring.... Keeping my fingers crossed. When it gets cold, I just see the dollars coming out of my pocket... Don't really worry too much about the palms cause they're protected, but the pocket isn't....lol

[NBTX11]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 07 2006,16:27)

QUOTE

Last year we got down to 15f on 2 occasions, but it was a mild winter... We usually see the teens 3 or 4x/year, but not more than that and it's usually only for one night. Last year our lows were in the high 20's to low 30's for the most part... I'm wondering what this year will bring.... Keeping my fingers crossed. When it gets cold, I just see the dollars coming out of my pocket... Don't really worry too much about the palms cause they're protected, but the pocket isn't....lol

Good thing you're on an island.  People on the same latitude as you in the middle of the country (like Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas etc.) get below zero F!!

[BobbyinNY]

Good thing you're on an island.  People on the same latitude as you in the middle of the country (like Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas etc.) get below zero F!!

That's for sure, Jim.... It's amazing when I talk to people in New Jersey or Pennsylvania which are on the same lattitude how cold they get.... I don't ever remember the temperature getting below 10f since I've lived on Long Island... But now those Noreasters' - that's a different story...

[NBTX11]

I bet long island can get a lot of snow in one of those bad noreasters.  Or is that usually farther north/inland?

[BobbyinNY]

I bet long island can get a lot of snow in one of those bad noreasters.  Or is that usually farther north/inland?

it's really strange..... Usually we're right at the cutoff.... Those Noreasters come in and the temps are usually between 30-35f on the island and about 27-32 north of the Tappan Zee bridge in Westchester county.. So, for MOST of them, we get pummeled with Rain while everyone north of the Bronx is covered in white, but when the temps are 3 or 4f colder we can get 2 feet of snow.. all depends on the temps..

[Don Little]

The queens should be able to take down close to 20 degrees, but also depends on what kind of freeze it is, although it may look terrible for a while afterward.

[Dave-Vero]

Once, I heard from the Washington Park Arboretum that their Torreya taxifolia (a rare yew-like conifer from west of Tallahassee) had survived something like a +7 degree freeze.  They were impressed.  I had to reply that it gets colder than that in Tallahassee.  So it's a great town for pindos, sabal minor, and needle palms, but sketchy at best for other palms.  Maybe some Rhapis in sheltered spots?

Tallahassee is in the midst of a botanical wonderland, from savannahs near the coast to the Apalachicola Bluffs with their magnificent needle palms.  And one of the last remaining virgin longleaf pine woods, just across the Georgia border.

[redant]

The bank that hosted the queen palm also had many very mature washies. These don't seem to be common in Tallahassee. I don't recall seeing but one or two small ones other then the ones at the bank.

The gardens that I mentioned had what I believe was some very mature Thrinax, Trachys  & Pindos.

[BobbyinNY]

How would a queen do around the St. Augustine area?... can you put them in the ground with no protection there?

[spockvr6]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 08 2006,11:22)

QUOTE

How would a queen do around the St. Augustine area?... can you put them in the ground with no protection there?

Heck....Tim Hopper has King Palms in the ground there!

[Dave-Vero]

I was living in Lake City (closer to Jacksonville, just south of the Georgia border) in 1976, the year it snowed.  Washies mostly croaked.  Ditto for Tally.  Ditto again in the 1980s.

[redant]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 08 2006,11:22)

QUOTE

How would a queen do around the St. Augustine area?... can you put them in the ground with no protection there?

I have been to St. Augustine several times. Tim's place is definitly not the norm. He has been blessed by several very warm winters in a row. Go here

for monthly average, then add the record low to the chart. Was 10f in 1985, Would kill any queen.

[BobbyinNY]

I have been to St. Augustine several times. Tim's place is definitly not the norm. He has been blessed by several very warm winters in a row. Go here

for monthly average, then add the record low to the chart. Was 10f in 1985, Would kill any queen.

Just curious because my wife and I are going down there to look around next month as a possibility for relocation... It's the farthest south I can get her to agree to - and the only reason she agreed is because she loves the spanish architecture of the city (we went to spain for our honeymoon).

I'm hoping that if we moved to an area like that, I could plant most of my palm collection in the ground (Queen, CIDP's, P. Elegans, Dypsis, majesty) I know the cocos would need to be protected, but heck, I'm doing that here now.

[spockvr6]

Bobby-

Great choice on St. Augustine!  (Or....perhaps "great compromise would be more appropriate.....)

I really like that area.  There is more to life than palms.  

I cant believe I said that on this board.....please forgive me!

All that being said, St. Augustine should be a pretty good place to grow palms.  No...it is not Miami and you will be subject to periodic freezes (some bad ones every so often as Rendant noted above), but overall its fairly mild.  In recent years, even more so.

In looking through the data at the SERCC, it looks like the coldest low there in recent times was 22F on 1/24/2003.  That was a windy freeze, so lack of latitude was likely a bit of a problem.

[BobbyinNY]

Bobby-

Great choice on St. Augustine!  (Or....perhaps "great compromise would be more appropriate.....)

I really like that area.  There is more to life than palms.  

I cant believe I said that on this board.....please forgive me!

All that being said, St. Augustine should be a pretty good place to grow palms.  No...it is not Miami and you will be subject to periodic freezes (some bad ones every so often as Rendant noted above), but overall its fairly mild.  In recent years, even more so.

In looking through the data at the SERCC, it looks like the coldest low there in recent times was 22F on 1/24/2003.  That was a windy freeze, so lack of latitude was likely a bit of a problem.

Yeah, and after checking out some of the pics from Tim Hopper's garden I am motivated.... Heck, with a little protection I could easily make a tropical paradise there and my wife can still feel the winter chill and wear her sweater from time to time...

[Scott Mcintosh]

I lived in Tallahasee before moving to Tampa. Temps. got into the mid. teens,Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta are defoliated most winters. I do not think a queen palm will make it long term. Palms that make it in the long term are Windmills,Sabals and pindos.

[BobbyinNY]

Heck,

Tallahassee must be one cold-ass part of florida.. The Night temps for the next 2 days are warmer here in New York than there...

New York, NY    

 Tonight,  Nov 8  Rain,   62°/56° 70%  

 hu, Nov 9  Partly Cloudy,  69°/52° 20%  

 Fri, Nov 10  Mostly Sunny,  67°/52°

Tallahassee, FL

  Tonight,  Nov 8  Clear,  N/A/47° 0%  

  Thu,        Nov 9  Sunny,  81°/49

[spockvr6]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 08 2006,15:29)

QUOTE

Heck,

Tallahassee must be one cold-ass part of florida.. The Night temps for the next 2 days are warmer here in New York than there...

Now Bobby....you know those tiny little "snapshots" of data cannot be used to define a climate

[BobbyinNY]

Now Bobby....you know those tiny little "snapshots" of data cannot be used to define a climate  

No, I know... of course, Larry.. I'm just saying that, for that to happen in November is VERY weird and the rest of Florida will be pretty warm tonight (mid - high 50's) while Tallahassee drops down into  the mid 40's.

[Dave-Vero]

Entirely characteristic of Tally to have really nasty cold snaps.  And hot ones, too.

St Auggie can go below freezing for a full day, but along with Jacksonville, it often has mini-northeasters in the winter--onshore breeze, fog.  This provides a modest degree of protection.  Okeefenokee Swamp may also provide a little bit of protection, but it does freeze over in really cold weather.  Inland from St Aug at Palatka, the St Johns River will have ice once in a while.  

On the other hand, you do see a few of the hardier tropical shrubs in hammocks (hardwood forests) at the coast.  

I can't make competent comparisons of surfing opportunities, Long Island vs. St. Aug, but in Jacksonville the water has been known to go below 50 degrees.  And of course the poor kids don't have adequate wetsuits.

[SoLando]

(F Zipperbaum @ Nov. 07 2006,13:36)

QUOTE

I go to Tally about every other weekend for football games... great Gardens to visit.  And if you love GIANT Live oaks, there are some fantastic ones lining many of the streets.

I go to Gainesville almost every week for the Gator game and the giant live oaks are GORGEOUS! Didn't see any queens in G-ville, though. It's beautiful up there.

[SunnyFl]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 08 2006,14:25)

QUOTE

Yeah, and after checking out some of the pics from Tim Hopper's garden I am motivated.... Heck, with a little protection I could easily make a tropical paradise there and my wife can still feel the winter chill and wear her sweater from time to time...

Is Tim in St. Aug or out on Anastasia Island?  Bobby, you might look into Anastasia - it's reeeal nice there, and being closer to the water, might be easier to grow your tropicals there.

However, I believe many of Tim's palms are growing around a heated pool.

There is more to life than palms.  

I cant believe I said that on this board

 Uh, Larry - are you feeling all right??  

[ruskinPalms]

I got my bachelor's degree at FSU so I spent some time there. I was not into palms at all, but I remember that it was comforting to have sabal palms around the apartment complex where I lived as I was used to seeing these near my home in Venice, FL. I can remember a very large Pindo near the economics buiding on campus but not much else. The live oaks were incredible however. Live oaks south of Gainesville are a joke by the way....they just don't seem to have the size as a little farhter north. I guess the hurricanes are more frequent the farther south and knock off those nice lateral branches. Really, the live oaks on the FSU campus rank as the most impressive botanical entity I have ever seen. BUT, I would need to have a yard 4 times the size of the one I have now to accomodate such a tree; plus, I have not seen any live oaks anywhere near as impressive in the Tampa Bay area where I live now. The HOA where I live now mandates "live oaks" to be planted. Really, I have no idea if the builder planted laurel oaks or live oaks, probably they planted laurels which are prone to hurricane damage but grow a bit quicker. Anyway, I have no idea where I am going with these ramblings except to say that I prefer palms for my area because they are more wind resistent (in general) and take up less space allowing me to have a greater diversity of plants in a limited area. Plus, they are beautiful!

[ruskinPalms]

By the way Bobby, I think queens will live for many years in St. Augustine. For that matter, cocos lives for 10-15 years at a time in the cape canaveral area and even a little but north. Cocos and Queens can look pretty impressive after just a couple of years so they are worth growing in marginal areas.

[NBTX11]

(Scott Mcintosh @ Nov. 08 2006,15:11)

QUOTE

I lived in Tallahasee before moving to Tampa. Temps. got into the mid. teens,Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta are defoliated most winters. I do not think a queen palm will make it long term. Palms that make it in the long term are Windmills,Sabals and pindos.

How cold do they get.  Looks like most winters they stay in the 20s according to NWS and I don't think that would defoliate any canariensis or robusta.  Coldest last 5 years has been 18F, don't know if that is indicative of the long term though.

[ruskinPalms]

I think I remember 13 degrees F one night forcasted. A couple of times freezing rain was forcasted but I never saw it in Tallahassee. I lived in IN as a young child and can remember the world being crystallized from ice storms. Acually quite beautiful, but very damaging to any plants as the weight of the ice would break off limbs, leaves etc.

[Trópico]

(BobbyinNY @ Nov. 08 2006,14:04)

QUOTE

Just curious because my wife and I are going down there to look around next month as a possibility for relocation... It's the farthest south I can get her to agree to - and the only reason she agreed is because she loves the spanish architecture of the city (we went to spain for our honeymoon).

I'm hoping that if we moved to an area like that, I could plant most of my palm collection in the ground (Queen, CIDP's, P. Elegans, Dypsis, majesty) I know the cocos would need to be protected, but heck, I'm doing that here now.

Bring her to Orlando. There is definitely more to do (and plant) over here. She may enjoy the Spanish architecture of the Spain pavillion at Epcot or Pirates of the Caribbean!  

[Dave-Vero]

Orlando has become a big urban area (NOT a city in the old-fashioned sense) with precious little infrastructure.  The east edge of town has one of the largest university campuses in the country--and everyone has to come and go by car.  The area does have some wonderful neighborhoods, nearby natural areas (Wekiva Springs State Park and vicinity, etc), and the excellent Leu Gardens.   Immigrants and ex-Disney employees make for a long-standing excellent restaurant scene, which has just as long been lovingly covered by the Orlando Sentinel's Chow Hound column.  

Brevard County has some spectacular palm and cycad yards.

[BobbyinNY]

Bring her to Orlando. There is definitely more to do (and plant) over here. She may enjoy the Spanish architecture of the Spain pavillion at Epcot or Pirates of the Caribbean!  

I'm pretty familiar with Orlando - She would never go for that though. Besides, having lived on LI most of my life, I really wouldn't want to be any more than 5-10 miles from the ocean.

[redant]

Bobby, I found a picture for you to share with your wife. It's one of the members of the Florida welcome wagon....

[redant]

This is what happened to the welcome wagon member in our neighborhood