anti-transpirant freeze/frost

[gsn]

I have a question regarding the use of anti-transpirants for freeze/frost protection.

I have read that they can increase cold hardiness anywhere from 4F to 10F degrees, not sure I'm buying that. I know some people swear by anti-tranpirants when transplanting to reduce moisture loss through the palm leaves.

Here in central florida we seem to have those one time frost freeze events on a fairly yearly basis,and they can wreak havoc on certain palms,otherwise the rest of winter can be fairly mild here.

It is that one time frost /freeze event that either kills or severely  setsback/damages the palm for the entire year.

I have also noticed that some palms seem to be affected by frost more so than bottomline cold temps.ie royals,foxtails,kings,cayota mitis,dypsis lutensens and probably many others that I can't think of right now.

Since frost can form at much higher temps than what some plams can take cold wise before the plant is killed out right.

Therefore something that helps with frost forming or burning the plant would be of a great help.

Does anyone have any  antadotal or thru experiments in your garden, with anti-transpirants, and it's effectiveness regarding either bottom line cold temps,or maybe more importantly here frost protection?

thanks

[BobbyinNY]

Does anyone have any  antadotal or thru experiments in your garden, with anti-transpirants, and it's effectiveness regarding either bottom line cold temps,or maybe more importantly here frost protection?

thanks

Yeah, get the biggest fan you can find and keep the air moving.

[Dypsisdean]

I tried that anti-transpirant once before a major freeze in SoCal. While no where near a controlled experiment, my observations were such that I would never take the time or spend the money to do it again. IMO---There are may other more effective freeze mitigations.

[gsn]

Bobby,

The fan would probably help on a radiational night ,but not an advective freeze. As frost usually forms here when the is little to no wind.

Dypsisdean,

That is exactly the kind of info I was looking for,thanks.

Like I said, I was mainly wondering about frost,and whether it would help prevent it forming on the plants, or doing damage?

Just curious when you tried using it,was it durning a radiational freeze or a windy advective freeze?

Also any other freeze protections you might wish to share since you mentioned more effective means?

thanks

[Dypsisdean]

Scott,

The freezes that caused me the most difficulty in SoCal were purely radiational, if I understand the terminology. They are akin the the infamous Santa Anas you hear about that blow desert winds over California and take the Pacific Ocean influence out of the picture.  After such a winter event, when the winds stop, the resulting nights are frigid. When these freezes occur they arrive with extremely low humidity, so frost doesn't form at all, or very little at best. And with this type of freeze many plants are burnt black the following day.

The formation of frost was never a concern of mine after I observed the following.

I lost hundreds of small Howeas during one of these super dry cold events. During the next such event, I watered heavily before it arrived. Then on the coldest night I set my overhead sprinklers to come on about 3:00 AM and ran them until 5:00 AM. When I awoke, I went out to find all of my potted Howeas with icicles 1-2 inches in length covering them. I anticipated the worst. But to my surprise there was absolutely no visible damage on any of them.

Those in Florida that witness the citrus growers doing the same can explain why this works. But after this, when I saw frost, at least I knew there was some friendly humidity around.

[BobbyinNY]

Frost is so interesting..... It creeps up on you.....  We had one frost already, last week, and I happened to be up really late because I was working and didn't get home till 4am... So, I stayed up for a bit to see what would happen. At 4am the temp was 40f, at 5am it was 36f. I went outside and looked at my glass table on my deck - no frost.. then an hour later it was still 36f and no frost, but then the sun started coming up and I went outside and there was a white patch of frost on the table....

[Gtlevine]

The best method I have heard of is to fertilize with a 0-0-60 fertilizer within 30 days of freezing temps. The theory is the fertilizer will replace water within the cell membranes, preventing the freeze/thaw to the palm. It is suppose to increase cold hardiness by 5 to 7 degree's or so. Since I'm not a botonist, I can't tell you if that is the facts so maybe someone else can chime in on this method.

Gary

[BS Man about Palms]

Gary- There is a little info about it on the back of that Lutz brochure you picked up.

By the way, I got a call today from "Mr Lutz" and I asked him to send me 200 brochures, I'll hand some out at the next So Cal meeting.

[John]

Gary you are on the right track.I learned this trick from Victor Cusack a bamboo expert in Australia where they use a fertilizer with a high salt content like for roses a month before the real cold weather comes.The water in the bamboo will have a higher percentage of salt and salt water will freeze at a lower temp. Cusack writes about this in his wonderful book on clumping  bamboo "Bamboo World" Maybe some Australian could checkout the degree of extra protection.

[tikitiki]

Any time you introduce a chemical compound to water you will lower the freezing temp and raise the boiling temp. It is a matter of getting the concentration right to change it enough ( antifreeze). The challenge with plants is getting the right mix not to kill the plants while providing adequate protection and applying the chemicals in time for tissue absorption.  I have been using superthrive the last couple of years to do this. I have no analytical data to prove this works mainly because I dont have the desire to let some go unprotected in order to give a radomized placebo controlled study. Anything you can add to the water concentration in the tissue that will not hurt the plant will lower the freezing point and within keep the plant cell from exploding from ice expansion.

[BobbyinNY]

I have been using superthrive the last couple of years to do this. I have no analytical data to prove this works mainly because I dont have the desire to let some go unprotected in order to give a radomized placebo controlled study. Anything you can add to the water concentration in the tissue that will not hurt the plant will lower the freezing point and within keep the plant cell from exploding from ice expansion.

Tiki,

I swear by SuperThrive... that stuff is awesome... I'd love to hear other people's feedback on it.